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  1. #16
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    Re: The BEST method for cleaning Iron Relics

    Quote Originally Posted by FatCat
    Hello Buckles. As usual this is a great post. Your wealth of knowledge and experience has taught me so much. Thank you for all your input.
    Thank you for your kind reply, FatCat--now go get those great iron relics cleaned up.

    Best Wishes,


    Buckles
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    Two 1839-O, 1840, 1842, 1848-O, 1851, 1851-O, 1852-O, two 1853's, 1856, 1856-O, 1857, 1857-O, 1858 (holed) and three 1858-O Half Dimes
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  2. #17
    Charter Member

    Oct 2009
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    Re: The BEST method for cleaning Iron Relics

    Hi BuckleBoy,

    it is maybe a good result on the Cast-Iron feet, but on the "real" iron pieces you have destroyed the iron-oxyde surface.

    For the real best result, compare your pieces with this medieval spur wich was cleaned with a mikro sand blaster:

    All movable parts working and no informations at the iron oxyd layer gone lost!

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #18
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    Re: The BEST method for cleaning Iron Relics

    Tom,

    I don't understand. Why wouldn't one want to remove the iron oxide to stop the reaction and decomposition of the metal? I do agree that the micro-blasted spur is much nicer, but in terms of cost, few can afford this equipment for their iron relics.

    Is that a find of yours? It is a very nice spur.




    Best Wishes,


    Buckleboy
    2020 CaneField Bandits Totals:
    Republic of Texas Navy Cuff Button
    US Civil War Belt Plate
    Eagle Breastplate
    Three Louisiana Pelican Cuff Buttons
    Louisiana Pelican Coat Button
    Shield from an 1820-30 Artillery Shako Cap Badge
    Corps of Artillerists and Engineers Button 1798-1802
    Four CW eagle coat buttons
    One CW eagle cuff button
    French Navy Equipages de Ligne button (1 piece, 1830-40s)
    New York Staff Officer Cuff Button
    Colonial silver sleeve link/button made from a half real
    Monogrammed Silver Love Token
    M1858 Remington Revolver Trigger Guard
    Silver spoon made by Alexander McGrew 1805-1836
    Coin Silver mid-1800s "Fede Ring"
    1820s-30s silver eyeglasses frame fragment
    End of a gold crucifix or mechanical pencil
    Tip of a silver mechanical pencil
    William IV farthing (1830-1837)
    dateless half real
    half-cut half real (“quarter real”)
    1781 and 1807 half reales
    1840 quarter franc French silver
    1850 20 centimes French silver
    1851-O, 1852 three cent silver and a dateless 1/4 of a three cent silver
    Two 1839-O, 1840, 1842, 1848-O, 1851, 1851-O, 1852-O, two 1853's, 1856, 1856-O, 1857, 1857-O, 1858 (holed) and three 1858-O Half Dimes
    1874, 1891-O, one dateless Seated Liberty Dime, and one dateless half-cut Seated Liberty Dime
    1877-CC and 1875 Seated Quarters
    1892-O, 1899 and 1906-O Barber Quarters
    1940 Washington Quarter
    1942-P, two 1943-S and two 1943-P War Nickels
    shotgun breechblock
    iron prisoner shackles
    picket pin
    Spurs
    Plantation tokens
    Minieballs, Beefaloes, V and Shield Nickels, and some GawGag


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    Any relics, coins, or other items appearing in my signatures were found on PRIVATE PROPERTY with total consent and permission from the owners of said property.

  4. #19
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    Re: The BEST method for cleaning Iron Relics

    This cabinet blaster comes with everything but compressor and choice of media http://www.harborfreight.com/abrasiv...net-42202.html . Your right, bottom line for siphon blaster cabinet , compressor and media is going to cost you around $275.00 and more when you add on shipping, and Uncle Sam. If your using a self contained bottle blaster or its likes, your still over $200.00. But in the long run you will find many uses for it besides iron it is a great cleaning tool. As far as iron meeting oxygen = iron oxide, rust. I know there's more then one type of iron oxide, I'm only familiar with one. Arty
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckleBoy
    Tom,

    I don't understand. Why wouldn't one want to remove the iron oxide to stop the reaction and decomposition of the metal? I do agree that the micro-blasted spur is much nicer, but in terms of cost, few can afford this equipment for their iron relics.

    Is that a find of yours? It is a very nice spur.




    Best Wishes,


    Buckleboy
    Its a small world until you have to walk somewhere.

  5. #20
    Charter Member

    Oct 2009
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    Re: The BEST method for cleaning Iron Relics

    Hi Buckleboy,

    this is the typical methode to clean iron without loosing informations wich are on the oxyde layer (also silver or other inlays get lost with electrolysis!)
    As example, if you have small and very thin carvings or patterns on the iron, they can gone lost with electrolysis but you find everything with a micro blaster!!

    To stop all possible reactions, the best methode is to use hot wax and boiling the iron pieces in 100 to 120 degree Farenheit (until no bubbles of water and CO2 comes out). All other finishes like Paraloid etc. get microcracks and incoming air humidity causes new reactions of the akaganeit and also other chlorides wich blast of the surface again!
    To get out the complete salts and chlorides is nonses and only a nice "wish" of many restorers specially when a piece is not cleaned yet and someone try to bring out the salt and chlorides from an uncleaned piece! So a very good and hermetically conservation with wax is the best what can be done at the moment. Also waxed pieces can be handelt without problem!
    I preserve iron pieces for more than 20 years now and not one comes back with any problems.

    A professional sandblaster is not expensive! Look here:

    deffner-johann.de/geraete/strahlgeraete-mittel/mini-feinstrahlgeraet-komplett-mit-schaltpedal.html

    This professional micro blast tool costs only 345 Euros (475 US$)
    I have the big one for 5Grants but this new tool do exactly the same work!!!

    You need only a small 6 Bar compressor and a cabinet (carfull with the dust and NEVER use corundum for blasting! only glass or wallnut materials)

    The spur is not a find from me! I cleaned it with other pieces for a museum.

    PS: My website is online again on monday or thuesday. There you can see more examples.

    Best wishes to all (and do not destroy history )

    Tom


  6. #21
    Charter Member

    Oct 2009
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    Re: The BEST method for cleaning Iron Relics

    Quote Originally Posted by artyfacts
    This cabinet blaster comes with everything but compressor and choice of media http://www.harborfreight.com/abrasiv...net-42202.html . Your right, bottom line for siphon blaster cabinet , compressor and media is going to cost you around $275.00 and more when you add on shipping, and Uncle Sam. If your using a self contained bottle blaster or its likes, your still over $200.00. But in the long run you will find many uses for it besides iron it is a great cleaning tool. As far as iron meeting oxygen = iron oxide, rust. I know there's more then one type of iron oxide, I'm only familiar with one. Arty
    Quote Originally Posted by BuckleBoy
    Tom,

    I don't understand. Why wouldn't one want to remove the iron oxide to stop the reaction and decomposition of the metal? I do agree that the micro-blasted spur is much nicer, but in terms of cost, few can afford this equipment for their iron relics.

    Is that a find of yours? It is a very nice spur.




    Best Wishes,


    Buckleboy

    ... this cabinet is ok but the blaster tool is only to use on car parts or very big iron pieces! The opening on the tip is VERY big and not real the right tool to restore historical objects!

    I would like to see how 6 Bar pressure and sand let look a iron piece You need something to control the presure - what you will miss on that piece!

    PS: because more than one iron oxyde: You are right but my english is not good enought... I mean the black iron oxyde wich comes directlyy under the rust. This is the layer with all information on it!

    Tom

  7. #22
    Charter Member

    Oct 2009
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    Re: The BEST method for cleaning Iron Relics

    something different

    This early medieval knife was completly corroded and has no iron core inside. On pieces like this, electrolysis don´t work!

    It was also sand blasted and small remaining spots are smoothed with rotating diamond tools.

    It has now a very nice black oxyde and red magnetit surface.



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  8. #23
    us
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    Re: The BEST method for cleaning Iron Relics

    Yes the cabinet blaster gun will have a big tip opening but you can buy tips with very small apertures that will knock a hair off a frogs butt. I have used the exact tips and guns to restore $60,000.00 Tiffany lamps in the 1970's. They are nowhere near micro but they will do the same job. The bottle blaster is a micro blaster, pen sized, but it is siphon fed, not a bad thing, it is more forgiving and cheaper, $96.00 http://glastar.com/ and can be rigged inside a blast cabinet also. Micro pressure blasters are around $400.00. The idea of using a media to blast at an object is about all the same, the only differences are the delivery systems, pressures used, and the medias used. With any of the siphon fed blasters you can adjust the pressure on the compressor as low as it takes to get the media your using to do its job. In some circumstances your better off using a larger tip when you want the removal rate to happen in a larger area at the same time. Arty













    ... this cabinet is ok but the blaster tool is only to use on car parts or very big iron pieces! The opening on the tip is VERY big and not real the right tool to restore historical objects!


    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Its a small world until you have to walk somewhere.

  9. #24
    Charter Member

    Oct 2009
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    Re: The BEST method for cleaning Iron Relics

    if very small apertures are to get, than it is a great deal ! Here in germany are only this big aperatures to get for the blaster pistols from this complete sets with cabinet...

    Tom

  10. #25
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    Re: The BEST method for cleaning Iron Relics

    Tom,

    Expensive equipment is beyond the scope of many of us hobbyists for cleaning something like iron relics. I think we basically do the best with what we have, and our main concern is to stop the oxidation process that destroys the relics.

    In that regard, I think we do well.

    In the realm of buttons and button cleaning, I advocate the use of aluminum jelly or peroxide to clean them. I have never seen a U.S. button collector pay Less for a button because it was cleaned in this way. They generally pay More. And this goes for museums in the U.S. as well.
    So in that regard, unless museums and collectors raise the bar--I feel we'll all be cleaning our buttons in similar manner for years to come.

    Now, I understand that with recovery of relics there comes a responsibility to preserve and care for them--and I have always taken that very seriously. But few of us have the ability to purchase equipment like you describe. I understand that all relics are important--and education is the key. So why don't you make a topic here and share your methods, documented with step-by-step photos of your process.

    Thank you in advance,


    Buckleboy
    2020 CaneField Bandits Totals:
    Republic of Texas Navy Cuff Button
    US Civil War Belt Plate
    Eagle Breastplate
    Three Louisiana Pelican Cuff Buttons
    Louisiana Pelican Coat Button
    Shield from an 1820-30 Artillery Shako Cap Badge
    Corps of Artillerists and Engineers Button 1798-1802
    Four CW eagle coat buttons
    One CW eagle cuff button
    French Navy Equipages de Ligne button (1 piece, 1830-40s)
    New York Staff Officer Cuff Button
    Colonial silver sleeve link/button made from a half real
    Monogrammed Silver Love Token
    M1858 Remington Revolver Trigger Guard
    Silver spoon made by Alexander McGrew 1805-1836
    Coin Silver mid-1800s "Fede Ring"
    1820s-30s silver eyeglasses frame fragment
    End of a gold crucifix or mechanical pencil
    Tip of a silver mechanical pencil
    William IV farthing (1830-1837)
    dateless half real
    half-cut half real (“quarter real”)
    1781 and 1807 half reales
    1840 quarter franc French silver
    1850 20 centimes French silver
    1851-O, 1852 three cent silver and a dateless 1/4 of a three cent silver
    Two 1839-O, 1840, 1842, 1848-O, 1851, 1851-O, 1852-O, two 1853's, 1856, 1856-O, 1857, 1857-O, 1858 (holed) and three 1858-O Half Dimes
    1874, 1891-O, one dateless Seated Liberty Dime, and one dateless half-cut Seated Liberty Dime
    1877-CC and 1875 Seated Quarters
    1892-O, 1899 and 1906-O Barber Quarters
    1940 Washington Quarter
    1942-P, two 1943-S and two 1943-P War Nickels
    shotgun breechblock
    iron prisoner shackles
    picket pin
    Spurs
    Plantation tokens
    Minieballs, Beefaloes, V and Shield Nickels, and some GawGag


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    Any relics, coins, or other items appearing in my signatures were found on PRIVATE PROPERTY with total consent and permission from the owners of said property.

  11. #26
    us
    Feb 2010
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    Garrett GtaX1250
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    Re: The BEST method for cleaning Iron Relics

    To add my 2 cents to this subject I have to say I'm a huge fan of Molasses for rust removal. Like BuckleBoy I learned of this method from antique car restorers and molasses is the preferred method when damaging any plating, other metals, etc might be a concern. It takes awhile (2-7 days) depending on how rusty the piece is but because it works slowly you can keep a close eye on the process and stop when you're happy with the results. I have seen pictures of automobile engine blocks that sat outdoors for many years and were completely rusted that looked like the day they were cast after being soaked in a molasses bath. How you mix it depends on how badly rusted your stuff is. It gets mixed with water and can be mixed 50/50 if needed for really badly rusted stuff. I'm currently restoring some railroad lanterns which were originally tin plated and the mixture I'm using is a 16oz jar of molasses to a 5 gallon bucket of water. Here is a Canadian National Railway lantern I just finished. It was completely covered with surface rust inside & out when I started. I have done nothing to it other than to soak it in molasses & water for 4 days and then lightly rub it with 00 steel wool to remove the grey coating left by the molasses solution. For you chemist types, it's the Phosphoric acid in the molasses that eats the rust. Next experiment is going to be using a heavily rusted wrench from the Concord (NH), Manchester & Lawrence Railroad. I'll post the results in a few days.
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  12. #27
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    Re: The BEST method for cleaning Iron Relics


  13. #28
    us
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    Re: The BEST method for cleaning Iron Relics

    Here's a link for glass blasting art. He's got some links to suppliers. There are small pen blasters that aren't too terribly expensive. http://www.glassetchingsecrets.com
    They make several small ones for jewlers too. So blasting small items should be no problem

    If you're considering a table top blast cabinet, you can buy bar stock and drill your own tips. Larger or smaller. If you have questions regarding blasting media etc. Surface Prep in Phoenix Az are great people to deal with. They have no problem answering questions and offer good tips on most anything to do with media blasting.

    A good substitute for molasses is plain citric acid. You can buy it from 1 lb up to 100lb drums from stores that sell home beer brewing supplies it's food grade so no chemical issues. I've had excellent results with citric. Not to mention the jeezeus effect

    What's the jeezus effect? That's when you replace the sugar with citric acid. They always yell jeezus! as their toes curl BTW it's what they coat the sour gummies with.
    I know it's here, just need a bigger coil!

    I think I know what my last words will be....
    "Hold my beer and watch this!"

  14. #29
    us
    Jul 2012
    Louisville Ky
    Fisher coin strike
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    I use white vinegar, works very well after a 3 day soak

  15. #30
    us
    David

    Dec 2012
    Zachary, La
    bounty hunter quick draw 2
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    Thanks for the information

 

 
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