CRH profits...what to do with them?

[myprecious]

I've only been at this since Aug 1, 09 - and have been very lucky so far in my efforts. I hope it continues as i'm getting some real enjoyment out of it. I only do halves btw.

I've already swapped over a large chunk of my CRH finds for a couple Ozs of pure Au...
and having been a dedicated PM stacker for a long while now (and that won't change) - figured i'd take my new CRH profits going forward and put them toward establishing a mint-state slabbed registry Lincoln wheat set for my young boys to fight over someday after I'm gone.

In the last week I've already picked up 21 1958-1930 Lincoln PCGS MS66RD slabs and a few PCGS blue housing boxes as I count down to the elusive 1909-S VDB. I intend on softening that MS66RD standard here and there on harder to find keys of course. And most of the pre-1930's will end up being at best MS65RD if they can be found at all for sale.

Last year I sold my lincoln raw uncirculated penny collection which had over 200 red shiny BU beauties, and i miss having it around. But the value i was into it for - spooked me since there was no certification on most coins and no air-tight system for preservation. And with all of the work it took to find uncertified yet genuine mint state dates, i won't ever go through that again. So i've got my eyes on the new goal of the highest PCGS slabs registry set of Lincolns. I just love a tough goal.

 

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[coinmojo]

I pay bills. Can't keep up. Need more Silver!!!

Mojo

 

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[jim4silver]

I sold 2575 40% week before last, took out my face value, then purchased 256 ounces of bullion silver. That was ALL free silver, bought with profits.

That was a smart move. Historically, 40% has been not too popular and resulted in getting lower value when sold to a coin dealer. In the past year or so both 40 and 90 has been popular with traders/investors so a person has been able to get a decent return when selling.

I believe that down the road a person will do much better when it comes time to sell if they have 999 silver. I would keep some 90 percent too, but would not buy it if you can get 999 for close to the same price. This past year there was a point when 999 was selling for less of a premium here (decent generic silver rounds/bars) than 90 halves.

Although I do not believe in gov confiscation (unless the dollar totally goes to zero and they confiscate everything), I still worry a bit that the gov could outlaw the melting of its silver coinage like it has done with pennies and nickels recently. There is really no practical purpose for this to happen since the silver coinage is technically not circulating (except for what CRHers find), but since it is US coinage they COULD do it if they wanted fairly easily--and it would not be considered a confiscation since you could still hold the coins and spend them for face if you wanted to. If that did happen I think the demand for such coins would drop dramatically. I would not want to be left holding the bag (pun intended). I don't think it would be as easy to control private, non-gov silver bars/rounds unless they did a confiscation.

Just my opinion.

Jim

 

[Rich Hartford]

"Although I do not believe in gov confiscation (unless the dollar totally goes to zero and they confiscate everything),"

Jim,

I can't believe that you don't believe in government confiscation. It's a historical fact, and although not confiscated, silver was included.
The dollar did not hit zero back then. The confiscation was nothing more than a theft from the taxpayers on a small scale. What is going on today is a theft of the taxpayers money on a grand scale.
I'll wager a serious amount of money that we will see another theft of gold and silver before the end of OBama's residency.

 

[jim4silver]

"Although I do not believe in gov confiscation (unless the dollar totally goes to zero and they confiscate everything),"

Jim,

I can't believe that you don't believe in government confiscation. It's a historical fact, and although not confiscated, silver was included.
The dollar did not hit zero back then. The confiscation was nothing more than a theft from the taxpayers on a small scale. What is going on today is a theft of the taxpayers money on a grand scale.
I'll wager a serious amount of money that we will see another theft of gold and silver before the end of OBama's residency.

RH,

I guess I should be more clear in how I say things. I meant to say "I do not believe that confiscation will happen AGAIN unless the dollar goes completely to zero".

I know it happened before and I have studied the matter in depth. What most people do not realize is that back then the dollar was connected to gold in a way that it is not now. For example, a person could go to their bank with a $20 bill and walk out with a double eagle gold coin. Many were doing that. I am not going to go into all the "whys" they did it, but it had to do with the gov wanting to increase the money supply/value so as to inflate, and to do that they had to have more gold and take away the opportunity of the people to cash in their fiat for gold. Remember, back then EVERYBODY owned gold, today not many at all have gold bullion in the US.

The gov used the "confiscated" gold to pay off our debts to other countries. Right after the confiscation the gov raised the price/value of gold to 35 bucks per ounce from 20.67 per ounce. You see, back then the price was not dependent on futures markets, but was set by the government. There is a bit more to it and there are some good sites that discuss what really happened. Today the gov can print/create as many dollars as they want without having to do anything with gold. This is what many do not seem to understand with respect to the whole "confiscation" issue.

Each person was allowed then to own $100 bucks of bullion (double eagles) etc. Jewelry was not touched. There was an exemption for rare coins, but the particular phrase that created that exemption was never really defined. The coins many think today would be exempt (double eagles, etc) were the exact coins the gov confiscated back then.

Since today our money is not in anyway tied to gold, there is no reason to "confiscate" it like they did then. If the gov announced another "confiscation" it would kill the dollar completely and any remaining faith in it would be gone completely.

Thus, my view that the only way they would do it is if the dollar was already zero and they needed real assets for some reason. I think at that point they would also be taking your land, food, 401Ks, and who knows what else. If they do confiscate again I feel that they will take ALL your gold--jewelery, etc. How do you think people would react to giving up their wedding rings, etc.?

Also, I do not believe the dollar is going to zero. I think it will go lower as all fiat currencies will.

All of the above is just my humble opinion of course.

Here is a good brief article that gives some info about what happened in 1933.

http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/are-we-being-conned-about-gold-consfication/


P.S. Silver was not confiscated. The circulating currency was silver back then and a person could hold as much as they wanted. I do not believe the executive order mentioned silver in any way.


Jim

 

[Rich Hartford]

"Although I do not believe in gov confiscation (unless the dollar totally goes to zero and they confiscate everything),"

Jim,

I can't believe that you don't believe in government confiscation. It's a historical fact, and although not confiscated, silver was included.
The dollar did not hit zero back then. The confiscation was nothing more than a theft from the taxpayers on a small scale. What is going on today is a theft of the taxpayers money on a grand scale.
I'll wager a serious amount of money that we will see another theft of gold and silver before the end of OBama's residency.

RH,

I guess I should be more clear in how I say things. I meant to say "I do not believe that confiscation will happen AGAIN unless the dollar goes completely to zero".

I know it happened before and I have studied the matter in depth. What most people do not realize is that back then the dollar was connected to gold in a way that it is not now. For example, a person could go to their bank with a $20 bill and walk out with a double eagle gold coin. Many were doing that. I am not going to go into all the "whys" they did it, but it had to do with the gov wanting to increase the money supply/value so as to inflate, and to do that they had to have more gold and take away the opportunity of the people to cash in their fiat for gold. Remember, back then EVERYBODY owned gold, today not many at all have gold bullion in the US.

The gov used the "confiscated" gold to pay off our debts to other countries. Right after the confiscation the gov raised the price/value of gold to 35 bucks per ounce from 20.67 per ounce. You see, back then the price was not dependent on futures markets, but was set by the government. There is a bit more to it and there are some good sites that discuss what really happened. Today the gov can print/create as many dollars as they want without having to do anything with gold. This is what many do not seem to understand with respect to the whole "confiscation" issue.

Each person was allowed then to own $100 bucks of bullion (double eagles) etc. Jewelry was not touched. There was an excemption for rare coins, but the particular phrase that created that excemption was never really defined. The coins many think today would be exempt (double eagles, etc) were the exact coins the gov confiscated back then.

Since today our money is not in anyway tied to gold, there is no reason to "confiscate" it like they did then. If the gov announced another "confiscation" it would kill the dollar completely and any remaining faith in it would be gone completely.

Thus, my view that the only way they would do it is if the dollar was already zero and they needed real assets for some reason. I think at that point they would also be taking your land, food, 401Ks, and who knows what else. If they do confiscate again I feel that they will take ALL your gold--jewelery, etc. How do you think people would react to giving up their wedding rings, etc.?

Most people do not really understand what happened in 1933 other than what they read in a paragraph or two on the internet. I am not saying this applies to you RH, but it does to many in the world I believe.

Also, I do not believe the dollar is going to zero. I think it will go lower as all fiat currencies will.

All of the above is just my humble opinion of course.

P.S. Silver was not confiscated. The circulating currency was silver back then and a person could hold as much as they wanted. I do not believe the executive order mentioned silver in any way.

Jim

Jim,
When I started MDing I spoke to an untold number of elderly people asking them where fairs were held etc. looking for good places to hunt. I also asked about gold coins. Every single one of these old folks some of whom came from wealthy and upperclass families said the same thing. Gold coins were never used as currency, and the only time you saw one was in a piece of jewelery. Most of the old folks I asked about the gold would have been in their mid 30's to late 40's during the gold confiscation. Perhaps out west gold was used for currency as opposed to New England.
One thing for certain everybody did not own gold.
Silver was considered and may have in fact been included in the executive order(have to look it up) but was as we know not confiscated probably because of the low value.
Historically, from the time of the Roman Empire, ALL fiat currency fails.
How will people react to a confiscation ? I believe that most will turn it all in. A few will hide it, and those that invested in another metal, lead, will violantly oppose another theft.
As for myself, I don't care one way or another, for now anyway. I let tomorrow worry about itself and am happy to live in very interesting times.

I always look forward to your posts which I find very informative.

HH

Rich

 

[jim4silver]

Thanks RH.

It was probably easier for people to carry around paper money than heavy gold coins back in the day, so for the most part perhaps people didn't want to be bothered carrying gold coins.

But from what I have read, as time got closer to the depression some people were sensing something bad coming and were trading their paper for gold (assuming they even had money). I don't know if that is accurate completely, but I have read that and it seems kind of like what many are feeling and doing today. The mint created large amounts of gold coinage for circulation, so I know it was out there somewhere.

All past fiat currencies have gone to zero as you say. What is ironic is that most often they began as backed currencies, only in time to be changed to fiat which eventually led to their downfall. I just wonder if it will be in the next 5, 10, 20 or 50 years? I am optimistically hoping it is not in my lifetime

Some are speculating that our gov is intentionally letting the dollar decline in value so as to make our exports seem more attractive and/or purposefully inflating to make it cheaper to pay off our debts to other countries. I don't know if either are true or accurate, but I have seen those theories put forth in various internet editorials.

If I had to "predict" what I think could happen down the road, I would say that if/when the dollar was heading towards a crash to zero (as in a out of control spiral down), that they would try and come up with some new type of currency.

Perhaps they would "back" a new currency with something, gold or silver or a basket of commodities perhaps? At that point I could see a type of "confiscation" where you had to turn in your gold/silver for some amount of the new currency. I don't think they would come and take it, but I could see them making laws to make the sale/transfer illegal. So a person would either have to turn it in for the new money, hold it and hope for a future change in the law, or sell/trade it on the "black market".

Hard to really say. My plan all along is to sell my gold and silver when the price is very high and put the proceeds into land or something like that. My guess is there will be a time in the future when gold/silver is not the most valuable form of "money" or asset to hold, like the situation during much of the 20th century when gains in stocks or real estate far eclipsed those gains from holding PMs. But right now it IS the most valuable in my opinion, and I hope to convert it into something even more valuable at some time in the future.

It seems all assets go thru "bubbles" or cycles of greatness. Stocks, real estate, tulip bulbs (in Holland a long time ago). Gold and silver could also be a bubble someday. The key is to not be the one holding if/when the bubble bursts.

Again, just my opinions and speculations.


Jim

 

[golden silver]

Good gouge Jim, I am contemplating selling my silver for gold but where can I get the best deal for gold? I am a novice when it comes to gold.

Golden Silver

 

[jim4silver]

Good gouge Jim, I am contemplating selling my silver for gold but where can I get the best deal for gold? I am a novice when it comes to gold.

Golden Silver

GS,

I think there are a few things to think about when buying gold.

How much is the premium over spot? This is in my opinion the most important factor. Premiums will vary by type of coin and by whom you are buying from. Generally, numismatics or semi numismatics will have the highest premium. I would personally stay away from graded old US gold at this time due to the high premiums. This stuff is very cyclical and there was a great opportunity to buy it 1.5 years ago or so for not too much over spot. Too late for now though.

Also, what size coin do you want. Fractional or one ounce or two ounce, etc. Personally, I like fractional sizes. My reasoning is that hopefully when I sell someday gold will be 5000 an ounce and I may only want to sell 1/2 ounce of gold and you cannot do that with a full ounce coin. Problem is most fractional coins that come from official country mints like ASEs, Maples, Krugs carry an extra high premium when you go fractional and in my opinion it is not worth it.

You may want to consider old, European gold coins like sovereigns and 20 francs. They are approx 1/4 and 1/5 ounce respectively of pure gold (actual amount is like .2354 and .1867) per coin.

Sounds odd but coin dealers are very familiar with these. I have been able to get them in the past for only 4 percent or less over spot when gov coins were 9 percent or more for fractionals over spot. Plus they are cool coins over 100 years old. Just make sure you are not buying counterfeits. Weigh and measure them to known specs and you will be OK. These old Euro coins are generally 90% gold, but the sovs are a bit higher (92 percent I believe). But none are 100% because they were circulating money.

I still buy some official mint coins. You can sometimes get Australian Kangaroos for a cheaper premium and they are beautiful coins where the bullion ones look almost like proofs. They are 9999 pure.


I also bought some 2009 Buffalo bullions here recently hoping they will not mint many more this year and they will go up in the future.

Also remember to buy stuff that will get a good price on resale. The old Euro stuff and the bullion I have mentioned seem to get good resale prices. I have seen though that the old Mexican gold coins, 100 Coronas and the newer gold sovereigns and 5 pound coins (money amount not weight) seem to not do as well when you resell even though they are really cool looking coins (but they also have lower premiums when you buy them, so maybe it all evens out??).

I personally never buy gold bars. My opinion is that coins are harder to counterfeit due to the size and details. I have seen counterfeit coins and their weight is off and their detail is crappy compared to the real thing. I have seen a picture of a larger gold bar that had a tungsten core and it supposedly weighed right.

As far as where to buy, I always buy in person. I would recommend checking local or not too distant coin shops and compare prices. Even if you have to drive a bit to buy from someplace, it might be worth it for a good deal. Think how much we drive to score a few bucks worth of silver coins. I use APMEX as a guide. Sometimes I can get a better deal than them, sometimes they are better on bullion. It just varies depending on supply vs. demand I guess.

All of this is just my opinion.


Jim

 

[Rich Hartford]

GS,

I agree with Jim, in fact I follow his tips closely when it comes to PM's. I sell my CRH find's and silver I bought cheap and buy gold. Besides pictures, I've never seen a counterfit gold coin, but am well aware that they are out there. I like buying from APMEX, or a reputable dealer who has been around for years.
I only buy coins. The less premium the better. The Austrian restrikes are a good deal as well as the Mexican coins. I also buy francs,French,Swiss,Belgian, Italian Lira. and Sovereigns.
I know a bit about antiques and how the economy has caused them to take a big hit. I look at coins the same way. The old U.S. Coins which are great looking have high premums which in my opinion will go the way of antiques. I don't mind paying the premium on one ounce U.S. and Canadian Gold as long as I'm paying with profit money. The Gold Buffalo which I would love to have is way overpriced in my opinion.
I'd stay away from coins from strange far off lands.
If you use the profit from selling your CRH finds you got your gold for free. Some folks say that you have to deduct your gas money, your time, and Dunkin Donuts you consume while CRH. I don't

Jim,
In our other exchange I found it interesting that you mentioned investing in land. Those are my intentions as well.

HH

Rich

 

[bocephus]

i don't know i'll just never sell