How NOT to sell your silver

[LemonThrower]

OK so lets say you want to turn some of your treasure into cash. How do you do it?

Well, probably the worst way is to go to a pawnshop. Absolute bottom dollar.

Second worst way is a coin shop. These guys price it to resell, so they have to pay less than what a buyer would pay. Call the coinshops in your phonebook and ask them what they will pay for 90% and 40%. They probably won't even want the 40% and won't give you a decent price on the 90% unless you have a lot.

The coin shops quote their buy price as a multiple of face value. 9X or 9 times means they'll pay $4.50 for a silver half. Don't expect anything extra for Bens or Walkers.

Typically, the dealers will offer you a price that is at least 2-3 times face value below the melt value of the silver, because this is their profit margin.

Almost always, you can get a better price from collectors. Right now I would pay 11.5X for 90% and 4.3X for 40%. Send me an email or pm if you are interested.

For key dates, commemoratives, proofs, or anything else you think should command a premium, try selling it to another TreasureNet member on the free classified here. Other ideas or craiglist (big hassle) or ebay (medium hassle, but not free).

Good luck!

 

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[jim4silver]

Second worst way is a coin shop. They probably won't even want the 40% and won't give you a decent price on the 90% unless you have a lot.

This is NOT TRUE where I live. Might be in some places. At the time of my post, YOUR prices are LESS than what Apmex is paying (at least for what they pay for buying $1000 face bags-$12.48X face for 90 percent and $8.46X for 40 percent, I don't know what they pay for lesser amounts).

I would not like the idea of mailing off my PMs and hoping to receive payment from somebody I have never met.

I would much rather lose 1X face or so and be able to walk out of the store with the money.

Jim

 

[LemonThrower]

fair point to an extent.

those prices are for 2,000 coins ($1,000 face value). most people don't want to wait until they have $11,000 or $12,000 tied up in coins to sell.

also, to be fair, apmex is not what I meant in my post by a a coin shop. i was talking about a local shop you can walk into. apmex is a high volume internet shop. you still have to ship to them and wait for a check to be mailed to you.

in apmex's defense, i have bought from them and they are o.k. although i have never sold to them. I'm not sure if they withhold income taxes or just send you a 1099 report of the sale., but they are a legit outfit and I'm confident they comply with all money laundering regulations.

in contrast, if you walk into a shop in your town yes there is an advantage that its convenient and almost risk free and you walk out with your money, but they won't pay as much as 1 or 2 places on the internet.

apmex to their credit when i have bought from them shipped promptly. some other outfits like monex and northwest territorial mint took several months to ship my coins. google those guys and you'll find a lot of complains. A state attorney general started legal proceedings against them for not shipping coins until the value went down, and those are 2 very large companies.

so the thrust of my post is still correct. you can get a better price if you shop around, and the local brick and mortar guys usually have the worst price. and check what the pawn shop or coinshop is offering compared to what a treasurenet member will offer you.

 

[jrf30]

Nucleo is also paying more than your current offer.

Your post was decent and had some good remarks, but then after you diss everything out there as inaduquate you follow it up with an offer of your own to buy. Made it seem like the whole post was just an argument to get people to sell to YOU. Not to end users in general, but to YOU.

Nucleo is a third party, they have worked well for me, and they have been trustworthy. And at a little over 12X face, minus 1%, that still leaves 12X face.

I also agree that selling to someone live is a good idea. I have used Craigslist before, and have had NO problem. I've sold to about 10 people, and ALL of them paid cash, met me where I wanted to meet them, and were easy to work with. No big hassle like you said.

So I think there ARE ways to sell. And you are even one of them. But your bias against anyone or anything that is not "you" was a little ... strong.

Besides - you don't want ot buy at 11X - 12X face. Wouldn't you rather search and find them AT face? :-) THAT is what THIS board is all about. Good luck to you.

 

[LemonThrower]

of course i want people to sell to me. i thought that was obvious. but there are many other treasure net members besides me who will buy if you post on the classifieds on treasure net.

I posted this because i was trying to buy someone's coins on the classified and they had already sold them for much less than I would pay. they basically got ripped off by another treasurenet member to the tune of $1200. someone else posted about selling to pawn shops.

anyway, i hunt rolls but i also buy silver. I coach youth sports and do a lot of things and have less time to hunt rolls.

i have never used nucleo - have you? Did they report your transaction to the IRS? http://www.bulliondirect.com/showFAQ.do?subject=regs

 

[65gt350]

For those that are concerned about the IRS here is a nice link to what is reportable and who is responsible for reporting.

http://www.golddealer.com/selected_facts.html

HH,
65GT350

 

[LemonThrower]

For those that are concerned about the IRS here is a nice link to what is reportable and who is responsible for reporting.

http://www.golddealer.com/selected_facts.html

HH,
65GT350

I have seen that page before. Its good, but its written in the context of people BUYING precious metal, not SELLING.

Here is what Bullion Direct says. Note that they are careful to distinguish what they are REQUIRED to do and what their POLICY is or what they may do:

In general, we are not required to report your transaction to any authority. However, single or related Cash transactions (including Money Orders and Cashier's Checks) in excess of $10,000 are likely to trigger IRS Cash Reporting requirements.

Bullion Direct does not offer tax advice on the tax treatment of your transactions. Please contact your tax advisor concerning your particular reporting requirements (i.e. Capital Gains). Please know that we cooperate fully with law enforcement agencies when information is legally requested.

Any activity that is deemed as efforts to circumvent Bullion Direct's policies or the IRS Cash Reporting requirements may result in a Suspicious Activity Report (SAR) being filed with the IRS.

Why is my Social Security Number requested when I choose money order or cashier's check as my form of payment?

Our policy is to require proper identification on Cash sale transactions (including Money Orders and Cashier's Checks) so that a Form 8300 can be prepared and filed, if required.

Is the IRS Cash Reporting requirement applicable to my transaction?

Due to the ambiguous nature of related transactions please assume when making multiple payments via Cash Instruments (Money Orders and Cashier's Checks) in excess of $10,000 in a 12-month period your transactions will likely be reportable to the IRS.

So if you sell more than $10,000 in a year they definitely are going to report it.

If the IRS asks for your info, they definitely are going to report it.

Between $0 and $10,000, in most cases they are not REQUIRED to report it but they very well may.

 

[jim4silver]

When a coin dealer purchases $1000 face of 90% silver from you, they must report that to the gov, whether they pay you in check, cash or seashells. It has to do with the amount and certain commodity regulations that also apply to soybeans, etc. There are certain gold sales that are also reported, I believe it is 25 ounces of krugs and maples or more, but for AGEs it is not required I believe. There is more to it and I don't remember it all since I have never sold anywhere near any of these amounts. But the info is on the web on some gold sites if you google it.

But I would not care what is given to the IRS because I file a schedule D that lists my gains and losses on my few PM sales each year. If a person is ever audited they will wonder where the deposits are coming from (checks or cash). If a person is keeping it under the mattress but buying lots of stuff they will wonder where the money is coming from to buy the stuff.

I don't want to wind up like Wesley Snipes or Marth Stewart, etc.

If I was a coin buyer/dealer, I would not go around advertising how "I won't report you..., etc". It kind of gives the impression that said buyer/dealer is wanting to assist people to defraud the IRS by evading taxes, even if that is not in fact the case.

PS. here is a link to a site that gives some info on what is reported, as well as general info on buying and selling gold and silver. I only skimmed over it, but it seems to have a lot of info.

http://www.coinmine.com/HOW TO BUY COINS/How To Buy Coins.htm

Jim

 

[LemonThrower]

But I would not care what is given to the IRS because I file a schedule D that lists my gains and losses on my few PM sales each year. If a person is ever audited they will wonder where the deposits are coming from (checks or cash). If a person is keeping it under the mattress but buying lots of stuff they will wonder where the money is coming from to buy the stuff.

I don't want to wind up like Wesley Snipes or Marth Stewart, etc.

I completely agree.

I have been audited before over a small amount. It happened while i was in the middle of moving from one house to another and changing jobs. I was able to locate documents for more than half of it but not the other half. It wasn't a lot of money but its extremely stressful to have to locate a bunch of records in a short period of time. Lesson learned is to document everything, print out electronic records, make multiple copies that are easy to locate quickly. I keep them on a zip drive now. But there is another lesson. When someone reports a payment to the IRS that starts a snowball down a hill. And whether a payment is required to be reported is not the relevant question. Really the question is what actually will be reported, even if its not required to be reported. And an audit is the least of your worries. If you get too many suspicious activity reports you could end up on a no-fly list or something. I would have a lot of qualms about making multiple dumps of over $2,000 unless I knew the teller personally.

Good thread - keep it coming.

 

[golden silver]

Learning a lot here guys thanks. My question is when to sell. I mean I have become attatched to my silver. I don't want to part with it at a low price when the potential is there to go much higher. What are y'alls thoughts. I also dont need the money right now. I am just storing it away.

Golden Silver

 

[LemonThrower]

silver is volatile and i think in the next month or two silver will be lower, but will be higher within 6 months, probably between $20-25. that's just an educated guess. but between now and the end of the year i think the risk of a price drop to say $13 is probably 50%.

I read Ed Steer's column regarding the bullion markets daily. its available free on casey research. i also read whatever ted butler publishes for free. he usually gives a free interview to king world news (audio) which is on the net for free.

this is a good question. if you look back at the price run up in 1980, the very high prices lasted only a short time. so you have to have an exit price in mind. personally i think it can go very high. When it gets above $50, i'm going to start selling my less liquid pieces. At $100, i'll start selling a bit more agressively. But i wouldn't be surprised if it went beyond $100 to $120 or $150. Gold in the 70's went up by a factor of 30. If silver rises 30X from $4, that is $120. But there are a lot of reasons why silver should go higher than gold. Read some of Ted Butler's old articles published on the net. Of course i'm biased because i like silver.

 

[cyberdan]

For those that are concerned about the IRS here is a nice link to what is reportable and who is responsible for reporting.
http://www.golddealer.com/selected_facts.html

GT I would'nt want to have a store like that in that neighborhood. I grew up just south of there in the 60's and it was just turnin ghetto then.

 

[Rich Hartford]

Learning a lot here guys thanks. My question is when to sell. I mean I have become attatched to my silver. I don't want to part with it at a low price when the potential is there to go much higher. What are y'alls thoughts. I also dont need the money right now. I am just storing it away.

GS,

I don't care what the experts with their crystal balls have to say. You sell when you can make a profit, period ! Even if you don't need the money, use the profit to buy gold or something usefull.
I only see my coins when I aquire them, and when I sell them. That's it. This way I don't get attached to something that is pleasing to the eye.

Numismatic coins: Great hobby if you enjoy collecting these coins for fun. But if you are buying them for investment purposes in todays economy you are just throwing your money away. You can't count on some mere millionaire to purchase your collection as they are going broke too.
When the money and jobs disappear the vakue of these coins will go way way down.

PM Confiscation: All of the experts, dealers, and hoarders say this will never happen. Bulls@#$ ! It has happened in the past and will certainly happen again. Not that one is needed, but there are already laws on the books that allow for the confiscation of gold and silver.
The $64,000 question is when will it happen ?
Just my opinion. I'm no expert, but through experience I have learned that when you can make a sure profit take it and run.

HH
Rich

 

[ivan salis]

the $50 per oz silver spike of the 1980's was due to contracts for silver being "sold"naked --ie without enough silver to back it up --- by silver brokers who were betting that the hunt brothers would never "call in the contracts" --actually taking physical delivery of the silver by doing the actual exchange of goods --since the hunts would have to pony up the full buy price --- the hunts had em fooled however they had a "game plan"* the hunts (some of the richest folks in the world at the time) just kept buying up silver futures contracts and the brokers just kept on "naked" selling -- then the hunts said "honor these contracts" -- the mad scramble was then on -- there simply wasn't enough silver on hand availble in the normal silver market to do so -- so the brokers were forced to buy silver lots and lots of silver from any scource they could find to cover the contracts -- of course the brokers figgered the hunts would get a belly full and at some point would start selling off some silver taking profiets -- thus "cooling off the prices" market wize and allowing them to fill the orders at a reasonible price --wrong the hunts just kept on hoarding the silver driving the price up -up - up --the hunts were "cornering" the market --controlling the price of silver --drivng it to unheard of prices ** some of the very big players in the silver market were getting hurt very badly -- finally the losers calling in the govt -- make them stop screwing us the "naked" selling brokers cried -- and the govt did --stepping in and saying what the hunts did was illegal and voiding the contracts ( never mind what the "naked" selling brokers had done trying to exploit the hunts of course)

todays high silver and gold priices are caused by the flood of near worthless dollars onto the world market --folks are dumping the near worthless paper for the MUCH more solid --"real money" --silver and gold -- thus fueling the price raises .

to properly profiet from "fiscal" madness one must understand whats drivingthe madness , so one may "see ahead a bit" and step off the train BEFORE IT GOES OVER THE CLIFF--

 

[golden silver]

Ivan, so what else do you think? I mean do you see silver going up further? Is there something that I could read to help me interpret the market and where it is headed? Thanks.

Golden Silver

 

[Fredness]

To keep your perspective, just remember:
Silver is not going up, your FRN is going down...
Silver/gold is the "zero", the FRN is the variable.
(Similar to the Earth revolving around the sun, not the other way around...)

 

[golden silver]

FRN?

golden silver

 

[65gt350]

FRN?

golden silver

FRN= Federal Reserve Note

 

[LemonThrower]

ted butler has some theories why silver will increase in relation to gold. so i agree with the concept that gold is zero and its your dollars going down, not gold going up, but i expect silver to rise eventually in relation to silver. This is called the silver to gold ratio. until about 1-200 years ago, it was fairly constant at about 15-17 to 1. Right now its over 50 to 1. this is a long term angle. just pointing out that silver has more potential than gold.

i wouldn't trade silver for gold unless it was important to you to have something that was very valuable in a small area. for example, if you had a million dollars of silver, it would probably fill up a small closet and you could no longer keep it at the bank. but a million dollars of gold is about 2 shoeboxes. (silver would be about 100 shoes boxes).

 

[ivan salis]

it a exchange rate game -- as the dollar becomes more and more "worthless" --more and more of them are needed to buy a oz of gold / silver ---gold and silver are hard money --real objects --the standard by which --"paper money is judged" --- as the value of ones "paper monry" drops --it takes more to buy gold --as it strengthens less --- its a supply and demand sort of process --- currently due to the us govts current massive spending (bank bail outs ect,ect) the wotld market is "flooded" with huge amounts of dollars -- thus there is a surplus of dollars in the world exchange market-- like any product having a whole lot of them to "move" or sell lowers the price you can get for them -- having a huge surplus of " non backed---just print more money" dollars floating about "cheapens" --its overall value. --- think of it as running a huge debit on a credit card that everyone knows you can not possibly pay off -- folks get leery of buying your treasury notes on the world market farther driving down the dollars worth , andit also cost much more for the us govt to barrow with higher interest being demanded by those who buy treasury bonds for them taking a bigger "risk"