I think melting pennies is kind of stupid

[FredMaxwell]

As pennies they are guaranteed to be worth one cent..
As regular copper the price can change

If you want to sell them to a manufacturer for the copper let THEM melt 'em down.
They have to do that any way!

 

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[hollowpointred]

isnt defacing US currency a federal crime? im sure there is a better way to obtain copper.

 

[Getty]

You can do what you want with "your" money.The defacing thing is a myth.If it was true then there would be NO coin rings or necklaces.I personally wouldnt melt anything myself.Perhaps if I was a silversmith, things might be different,Oh Well.

 

[MalteseFalcon]

Last week I read a bunch of stuff about the current high price of copper.

Decided to do some research on home smelting.

It is possible to build a small smelter/foundry/forge/whatever using propane as a heat source.

Melting point of copper is over 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit.

Yes it is illegal to melt them down, so you would HAVE to do it yourself. You cannot just truck your pre-1982 pennies to your local metal recycler, even though right now the going rate is $2.50/lb for copper, and it only takes about 150 pennies or so to make a pound.

Take into account the time and expense of creating your own DIY foundry at home, and then the time necessary to melt them down.

You can make more money (timewise) by working at McDonalds.

Now if the value goes up to 10 or 20 bucks a pound for some reason, then it might be worth it.

But not EVEN is it worth it now.

 

[Emperor Findus Cladius]

Are you sure about the melting is illegal? If so, then it would be illegal to melt the silver coins also, but refiners take the 90% coins in for refining.

 

[Getty]

Are you sure about the melting is illegal? If so, then it would be illegal to melt the silver coins also, but refiners take the 90% coins in for refining.

Thats what I say,isnt making jewelry out of coins defacing?What if I had ALOT of paper money and used it to start fires?It would be my perogative and loss.The govt doesnt care,you earned it,its yours.

 

[Gypsy Heart]

Are you sure about the melting is illegal? If so, then it would be illegal to melt the silver coins also, but refiners take the 90% coins in for refining.

Thats what I say,isnt making jewelry out of coins defacing?What if I had ALOT of paper money and used it to start fires?It would be my perogative and loss.The govt doesnt care,you earned it,its yours.

Well,well ....Mr DB Cooper...I wondered when you would finally surface.....Just how was that jump anyway?

 

[MalteseFalcon]

All I know for sure is a) it is illegal to deface government issued money, and b) scrap metal people will not accept U.S. coinage (at least the ones I have spoken with anyway).

So refiners WILL take silver coinage to melt down? And the treasury department is ok with it?

That is a new one on me....but then I am no expert.

 

[Getty]

All I know for sure is a) it is illegal to deface government issued money, and b) scrap metal people will not accept U.S. coinage (at least the ones I have spoken with anyway).

So refiners WILL take silver coinage to melt down? And the treasury department is ok with it?

That is a new one on me....but then I am no expert.

I never said ANYONE will melt/deface for you. I only said " do what you want with your money".

 

[Getty]

Defacing money is ONLY illegal if it is done for FRAUDULENT intent!

 

[nathan104]

Exactly. It is NOT illegal to deface currency if it is not with fraudulent intent. That is a myth that some people will just not let die.

It is perfectly legal to melt pennies. Just as it is legal to put a penny in one of those machines that flatten them to make them souvenirs that are everywhere. But, melting pennies and seperating the metal content would be extremely difficult. Not only that, but would have to go up alot more to make it worth it at all. YES, the price of copper content in a pre-82 penny is worth more than the penny based on the comodities market. But, you will NOT get that amount from a recycler or processing plant. Most recyclers right now are offering a little over $2.40 a lb for type 1 copper. With a lot less being offered for types 2 and 3.

But, although its not cost effective to do all the above, I personally am saving all my pre-82 pennies for when "IT" happens. Because when "IT" happens, the US dollar will be worthless but the copper pennies will be a valid currency because of the copper content. They will be used as "change" for every day purchases made with silver. But, Ive also been called paranoid a few times

 

[cedarratt]

It is only legal if you increase the value of the coin that is how the law is stated. So if the copper is worth more then the penny you might could get away with melting it but remember that copper is bought and sold in the scrap market by the pound and a penny does not weigh much. Not to mention that the newer ones are zinc copper clad pennys. As for the scrap market your best bet to make money is to pull stuff out of the trash such as copper wireing, brass fittings, and copper water pipes, dont forget anything aluminuim. I wouldn't bother melting the pennys it would probably cost more to melt them and cast into bars as the value of copper in them.

 

[nathan104]

It is only legal if you increase the value of the coin that is how the law is stated.

No its not. Where do you see that at?

This is taken directly from the Mints website under FAQ

1. Is it illegal to damage or deface coins?

Section 331 of Title 18 of the United States code provides criminal penalties for anyone who “fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the Mints of the United States.” This statute means that you may be violating the law if you change the appearance of the coin and fraudulently represent it to be other than the altered coin that it is. As a matter of policy, the Mint does not promote coloring, plating or altering U.S. coinage: however, there are no sanctions against such activity absent fraudulent intent



This means it IS NOT ILLEGAL unless it is done with fraudulent intent. If I cut a dime size hole out of a nickle and file it down to make it look like a dime and then try and pass it off as a dime, THEN it is illegal. But, you can put pennies on railraod tracks to flatten them, melt them, beat them with a hammer all day long and its perfectly legal.

 

[wmas1960]

I don't know for sure but just a thought here.Not saying anything here about legality or illegality and all but confusion over refiners accepting, or not accepting Copper, Silver or Gold Coins might not involve them melting them down.

It seems there are conflicting experiences here. Some say that refiners will accept SILVER coins and others say they will not take US Coinage. The confusion may be in how a question is asked and then answered.

I would doubt that any refiner would accept common or clad coins, (Modern day Nickels, Dimes Quarters Pennies and Halves.... SBA and SAC dollars and so on).Nor woud they probably accept pennies, unless they are high percentage copper. Reason being is that there is little to be gained from it as the cost of refining, especially the pennies, as explained would be more costly than their value. Some might be willing to accept the older coins that do contain large amounts of copper, silver or coins that contain gold but, probably to resell and trade rather than melt down. Reason for this is that refiners are also in the business in investment in precious metals. They may buy all kinds of scrap or unwanted items like old jewelry and such. That doesn't mean that they melt it all down though. If they found a really unique Silver Candle Stick or Gold Ring, it might be possible that they have ways of selling such items to other types of dealers or sellers, Auction houses etc. What they don't melt down and sell to other manufacturers etc., they might be able to trade, in countless ways based on the metal content or other values.

I remember talking to a refiner one time who would take my scrap Gold, Silver and other metals and give cash or Bullion Coins of my choosing. They are modern new coins available in Gold, Platinum and Silver and he had a large catalog to choose from. China, Australia, South Africa, Canada, US etc. Perhaps refiners that offer these services to their clients will accept the coins and hold them, or trade them on their metal content to acquire other coins. Like me selling one form of gold, (dental scrap for example) and getting another in return, (Bullion Coins). In the middle, the refiner takes his percentage off the top and then returns the ballance in coins. He then takes the metal I gave him and either refines it into it's raw materials and forms it into ingots etc for sale to manufacters or he may keep it and hold it until he finds someone who wants a specific item or maybe until the spot price rises to a point where he can justify re-selling it or processing it.

I don't know about the older Quarters, Dimes, Halves and Dollars and how closely their prices may fluctuate with the spot prices for metals but I do know that the Bullion Coins do fluctuate. They contain several values. Face, Metal Content (Spot) based on their weigth and then, Numismatic value.

So, some refiners might accept the better coins on the basis of them getting a return on their spot value or Numismatic value by reselling them rather than melting them. Just another aspect of their business of investing in precious metals.

 

[Getty]

But, you can put pennies on railraod tracks to flatten them, melt them, beat them with a hammer all day long and its perfectly legal.
[/quote

Exactly what I said, another fine example.Can I be charged for putting quarters or nickels on the tracks? Dont think so.

 

[Emperor Findus Cladius]

wmas1960,

That is a good point about the refiners, we will probably never know unless we ask them. I am assuming though some of them refine them. Case in point, midwest refiners. They will accept 90% silver coins (easier to refine), but will not accept 40% silver halves (more difficult with the higher copper content). Just a thought.

 

[ringding]

The coins in your pocket are owned by you. You can do whatever you want with them as long as you don't try to defraud someone by altering a coin to pass it off as one of higher value. You can go to the U.S. mints website FAQs to see the statute. usmint.gov


"This statute means that you may be violating the law if you change the appearance of the coin and fraudulently represent it to be other than the altered coin that it is. "

 

[Getty]

The coins in your pocket are owned by you. You can do whatever you want with them as long as you don't try to defraud someone by altering a coin to pass it off as one of higher value. You can go to the U.S. mints website FAQs to see the statute. usmint.gov


"This statute means that you may be violating the law if you change the appearance of the coin and fraudulently represent it to be other than the altered coin that it is. "

RIGHT ON !!!

 

[MalteseFalcon]

Wow....

You guys have been extremely informative.

Thanks for opening my eyes a bit.

One question...what is the difference between Types 1, 2 & 3 copper? In LAYMAN'S terms please. I found the following description, which only tells me what I already know...that there are three different kinds of copper out there....


Type 1,2,3 copper

Different classes of copper-binding sites in proteins, classified by their spectroscopic properties as Cu(II). In type 1, or blue copper centers the copper is coordinated to at least two imidazole nitrogens from histidine and one sulfur from cysteine. They are characterized by small copper hyperfine couplings and a strong visible absorption in the Cu(II) state. In type 2, or non-blue copper sites, the copper is mainly bound to imidazole nitrogens from histidine. Type 3 copper centers comprise two spin-coupled copper ions, bound to imidazole nitrogens.