End of CRHing Boxes has arrived............!

[obediah]

End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

Just finished my 6 Boxes & first time in 8 months found not one Silver in the bunch; the wife picked her 6 up has yet to go thru them but was informed there will be no more Silver in ANY of the Boxes anymore as they are sorting ALL the coins in the Pine Bluff Ark facility where her coins come from, this has just started this past week she was informed

 

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[obediah]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

Dow Theorist Richard Russell: Sell Everything, You Won't Recognize America By The End Of The Year


Richard Russell, the famous writer of the Dow Theory Letters, has a chilling line in today's note:

Do your friends a favor. Tell them to "batten down the hatches" because there's a HARD RAIN coming. Tell them to get out of debt and sell anything they can sell (and don't need) in order to get liquid. Tell them that Richard Russell says that by the end of this year they won't recognize the country. They'll retort, "How the dickens does Russell know -- who told him?" Tell them the stock market told him.

That's pretty intense!

Update: By popular demand, here's more on what he sees in the market. The gist is that the markets recent gyrations are telling him that the economy is in trouble:

And I ask myself, "Am I seeing things? The April 26 high for the Dow
was 11205.03. The Dow is selling as write at 10557 down 648 points
from its April high. If business is even better than expected, then
why is the Dow down over 600 points? And why, if there were 674 new
highs on the NYSE on April 26, were there only 20 new highs on Friday,
May 14? And if my PTI was 6133 on April 26, why is it down 17 points
since its April high?

The fact is that I've been seeing deterioration in the stock market
ever since early-April, and this in the face of improving business
news. The D-J Industrial Average is composed of 30 internationally
known top-quality blue-chip stocks. These are 30 of "America's biggest
companies." If Barron's is so bullish on the future of America's
biggest companies, then why isn't the Dow advancing to new highs?

Clearly something is wrong. But what could it be? Much as I love
Barron's, I trust the stock market more. If I read the stock market

correctly, it's telling me that there is a surprise ahead. And that
surprise will be a reversal to the downside for the economy, plus a
collection of other troubles ahead.

About Dow Theory -- First, we saw the recent April highs in the
Averages. Then we saw a plunge in both Averages to their May 7 lows --
Industrials to 10380.43, Transports to 4298.12, next a short rally. If
ahead, the two Averages turn down and violate their May 7 lows, that
would be the clincher. Such action would signal the certain resumption
of the primary bear market.

Just as for years I asked, cajoled, insisted, threatened, demanded,
that my subscribers buy gold, I am now insisting, demanding, begging
my subscribers to get OUT of stocks (including C and BYD, but not
including golds) and get into cash or gold (bullion if possible). If
the two Averages violate their May 7 lows, I see a major crash as the
outcome. Pul - leeze, get out of stocks now, and I don't give a damn
whether you have paper losses or paper profits!

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/dow-...a-by-the-end-of-the-year-2010-5#ixzz0oPLbkviA

 

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[jim4silver]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

As usual I agree with JRF30. Keep in mind that Canadian companies already HAVE to cull for silver at their sorting facilities by law. So the machinery to do so has been in circulation for quite a while now. What is probably happening is that as each supplier gets rid of old equipment they naturally get new equipment that culls for silver as well as all of the other undesirable stuff that they run into on a daily basis. This probably explains why boxes can be so bad in one area but be filled with silver in another. The areas that still have good boxes haven't upgraded their equipment for a while. So those of you still getting good boxes should thank your lucky stars and hit them as hard as you can. Because they probably won't be around for long. And those of us who have never gotten a good box should try to find another bank with a supplier that hasn't upgraded. Me, I gave up boxes long ago. I've never gotten a single silver coin out of a box.

So far this has nothing to do with the government and each supplier is probably doing this as a standard upgrade as old machines break down. They may even be seeing larger profits by upgrading and taking that into account when faced with the decision of whether or not to upgrade machines that may otherwise still have a few more years in them. If the machines appear to be paying for themselves by culling a lot of silver then it becomes a no brainer for the supply companies to upgrade. Especially since the ability to detect silver is likely going to be a common option from now on instead of an expensive add on.

MTS,

Can you point out a high speed, high volume counter/sorter that culls silver (brand name or model number, etc)? I don't mean a Coinstar, but something that a major company like Brinks can use? I would not doubt that such a technology could exist, but I have never seen one mentioned.

One easy way to see if a coin courier is culling silver: if you find any in the boxes it is not. If a machine is that good it will not miss them, especially when a box has several. Many seem to not realize how successful a multi box CRHer can be in cleaning out an area over time, especially when they are ordering 10 to 20 or more boxes per week.

Another fact nobody ever seems to address is that the coin couriers do not own the money they handle. They act as liasons between the fed reserve and its member banks. I wonder how the fed would feel about coin couriers taking a proprietary interest in the money they are handling? Then, what would the courier do with the silver coins? Sell them for a profit, turn them over to the gov? These couriers make so much money doing their job as it is, a bit of silver coinage is not going to make much of a difference I imagine.

Further, the gov has been aware of its silver coinage since day one, so I doubt they would wait this long to start a program of silver culling, especially after people like LJ and Rich Hartford, etc, have removed so much from the system.

We have had many posts in the past about culling, and to this day nobody has ever shown any solid proof. I would personally love to know for sure if they are culling, so then I could finally give this up and not have withdrawals.

Jim

 

[mts]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

MTS,

Can you point out a high speed, high volume counter/sorter that culls silver (brand name or model number, etc)? I don't mean a Coinstar, but something that a major company like Brinks can use? I would not doubt that such a technology could exist, but I have never seen one mentioned.

No I can not. But this would be a good question for Brinks in Canada. They must be using one as they are required to by law. That's the main point I'm making. If every supplier in Canada is doing this then the technology must be readily available now. It wouldn't surprise me to find that suppliers in the US are getting some of this same technology when they upgrade their machines.

It is certainly true that it could all be a hoax and none of the suppliers in the US are culling silver. But considering that some areas are completely dry and others are still turning out dream boxes (or at least boxes with consistent silver in them) it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that the real reason is because a fraction of the suppliers in the US have upgraded to using newer machines.

Also keep in mind that it may not be an issue of "culling" silver as much as simply "rejecting" it. Coinstar machines appear to reject most silver. Perhaps the newer machines reject the silver coins along with other junk items. Whether or not the suppliers then go on to further cull the silver out of the rejects is another story. This is of course speculation. I can't possibly know what is going on in the suppliers' facilities.

 

[Diver_Down]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

What you are all missing is that no sorting facility has the authority to cull coin or paper. It doesn't matter that it is a potential revenue stream in selling the silver for melt. The authority does not exist. Until there is a law that gives them an authority to do so, it can't happen. There is a strict accounting for all coin. They can't just "swap" out the culled silver with clad as the clad is accounted for. Any damaged coin/paper is sent back to a Federal Reserve bank for them to determine the usability of the coin/paper.

 

[jim4silver]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

MTS,

Can you point out a high speed, high volume counter/sorter that culls silver (brand name or model number, etc)? I don't mean a Coinstar, but something that a major company like Brinks can use? I would not doubt that such a technology could exist, but I have never seen one mentioned.

No I can not. But this would be a good question for Brinks in Canada. They must be using one as they are required to by law. That's the main point I'm making. If every supplier in Canada is doing this then the technology must be readily available now. It wouldn't surprise me to find that suppliers in the US are getting some of this same technology when they upgrade their machines.

It is certainly true that it could all be a hoax and none of the suppliers in the US are culling silver. But considering that some areas are completely dry and others are still turning out dream boxes (or at least boxes with consistent silver in them) it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that the real reason is because a fraction of the suppliers in the US have upgraded to using newer machines.

Also keep in mind that it may not be an issue of "culling" silver as much as simply "rejecting" it. Coinstar machines appear to reject most silver. Perhaps the newer machines reject the silver coins along with other junk items. Whether or not the suppliers then go on to further cull the silver out of the rejects is another story. This is of course speculation. I can't possibly know what is going on in the suppliers' facilities.

You make good points MTS.

I guess what it comes down to in my view is that if the US Gov required couriers to cull silver like you say they do in Canada, then yes the couriers would do it because they have to by law.

Right now there is no law in the US that I am aware of that says they have to. Thus, if it were going on right now it would be by the couriers themselves for fun and proft, and that is what I don't think will ever take place, based on my above posted reasons. All the posters here who previously mentioned courier silver culling do so with a view that the courier company is doing it for their own profit, and not being done by the Gov or at their behest.

As far as the US Gov making a law like you mention in Canada, it would seem like too little too late here. Also, it might give the public the impression that silver (a PM) is a worthwhile thing to have and this could make silver appear more desirable to the masses, which might not be a great thing for dollar's strength?

What you are all missing is that no sorting facility has the authority to cull coin or paper. It doesn't matter that it is a potential revenue stream in selling the silver for melt. The authority does not exist. Until there is a law that gives them an authority to do so, it can't happen. There is a strict accounting for all coin. They can't just "swap" out the culled silver with clad as the clad is accounted for. Any damaged coin/paper is sent back to a Federal Reserve bank for them to determine the usability of the coin/paper.

That is kind of what I said in my previous post. I agree with you 100%.

Jim

 

[mts]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

What you are all missing is that no sorting facility has the authority to cull coin or paper. It doesn't matter that it is a potential revenue stream in selling the silver for melt. The authority does not exist. Until there is a law that gives them an authority to do so, it can't happen. There is a strict accounting for all coin. They can't just "swap" out the culled silver with clad as the clad is accounted for. Any damaged coin/paper is sent back to a Federal Reserve bank for them to determine the usability of the coin/paper.

I can understand this. But there has to be some rule on what happens to all of the "junk" stuff that gets rejected by their machines. I'm sure that many people will come back and say that they occasionally get foreign, magician, and other types of junk in their boxes. But there is likely a ton of junk that gets rejected by their machines as well. So there must already be rules in place to handle this. Perhaps it is "written off" or perhaps all of the junk goes directly to the US mint for disposal. Who knows. But if there is already a plan in place to handle the junk and silver is rejected as "junk" as well then perhaps the silver suffers a similar fate?

I have no idea. But it wouldn't surprise me to find out that the reason why some areas seem to be completely void of silver in boxes is because the suppliers use better/different machines that reject silver (either on purpose or accidentally). Again, I can't prove a single word of anything I've said. All I know is that I've never received a silver, foreign, or magicians coin in a box of halves. I haven't done many boxes. But I've done a few and they are always 100% clad halves. And there seem to be a lot of people who have the same experience. It seems regional to me. Some people are lucky enough to have good boxes that produce while others of us can't find a single silver half in a box. I don't think that can be explained by the sheer number of coin roll hunters in a given area. There has to be another reason. What that reason is I have no idea.

 

[Diver_Down]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

Once the coin is minted, it is sold to the Federal Reserve at face value. The cost to mint the coin and it's corresponding face value is called seigniorage. It is the profit the mint turns to fund other government programs. The Federal Reserve determines the fitness of our coin and paper currencies. (I mentioned this in my previous post, but you must have missed it.) If coin is rejected at the sorting facility, then it is still accounted for and forwarded to the nearest branch of the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve will account for all coin and paper that is not up to standards and credit the corresponding sorting facility. Even so, the coin/paper is accounted for that is destroyed.

I encourage everyone to schedule a visit with their nearest branch of the Federal Reserve. It is very informative.

 

[mts]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

Once the coin is minted, it is sold to the Federal Reserve at face value. The cost to mint the coin and it's corresponding face value is called seigniorage. It is the profit the mint turns to fund other government programs. The Federal Reserve determines the fitness of our coin and paper currencies. (I mentioned this in my previous post, but you must have missed it.) If coin is rejected at the sorting facility, then it is still accounted for and forwarded to the nearest branch of the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve will account for all coin and paper that is not up to standards and credit the corresponding sorting facility. Even so, the coin/paper is accounted for that is destroyed.

I encourage everyone to schedule a visit with their nearest branch of the Federal Reserve. It is very informative.

Ok. But what happens if a "coin" is not actually a "coin"? Where do the "junk" rejects go (bottle caps, necco wafers, slugs, washers, etc.)? And what you are saying could still account for the silver going back to the mint if it is being "rejected" by the machines. That would imply that a machine that rejects silver at a sorting facility would result in said silver going back to the mint instead of into the boxes that coin roll hunters get. Or am I missing something?

 

[jim4silver]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

Once the coin is minted, it is sold to the Federal Reserve at face value. The cost to mint the coin and it's corresponding face value is called seigniorage. It is the profit the mint turns to fund other government programs. The Federal Reserve determines the fitness of our coin and paper currencies. (I mentioned this in my previous post, but you must have missed it.) If coin is rejected at the sorting facility, then it is still accounted for and forwarded to the nearest branch of the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve will account for all coin and paper that is not up to standards and credit the corresponding sorting facility. Even so, the coin/paper is accounted for that is destroyed.

I encourage everyone to schedule a visit with their nearest branch of the Federal Reserve. It is very informative.

Ok. But what happens if a "coin" is not actually a "coin"? Where do the "junk" rejects go (bottle caps, necco wafers, slugs, washers, etc.)? And what you are saying could still account for the silver going back to the mint if it is being "rejected" by the machines. That would imply that a machine that rejects silver at a sorting facility would result in said silver going back to the mint instead of into the boxes that coin roll hunters get. Or am I missing something?

What makes you think machines used by the courier are rejecting silver? My boxes are crappy here now, but I still get some silver every now and then so I know there is no "culling".

I would guess that any foreign coins, slugs, and assorted crap that finds its way to the courier is gonna get pitched (if it is not US currency), and the bank that sent it will not get credit for the coin so it is a "wash".

It would be interesting to see from all the CRHers here how many find some silver at least sometimes. I don't think there are many here who never find it if they do a decent number of boxes. Maybe some that always get skunks are near where that metal company (Jackson Metals?) was supposed to be buying huge amounts of halves a couple of years back and taking out the silver. Those rejects had to go someplace. Maybe those are what you keep getting MTS?

Jim

 

[obediah]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

Well she has found some silver, there are no Skunks still working on her 6th and final box which has 7 enders; so far 17/3/3/3/2 (all %40's) 3 of her first 4 Rolls in 6th box had 2 each one had nothing, update in 1/2 hour or so.

Oh she also got a 1977 7 sided Mexican coin don't figure it is Silver.

Anybody care to guess how many are i nher 7 ender Box?

 

[coinmojo]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

There was talk of a Company in Ohio called Jackson metals when I first joined this Forum.

As I recalled they had a pretty sweet set up with the suppliers and turned CRH into a major operation buying up all the Half dollars by the pallets and did a nice bit of culling.

Word has it they di very well.

Very interesting story.

Mojo

 

[obediah]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

Well she has found some silver, there are no Skunks still working on her 6th and final box which has 7 enders; so far 17/3/3/3/2 (all %40's) 3 of her first 4 Rolls in 6th box had 2 each one had nothing, update in 1/2 hour or so.

Oh she also got a 1977 7 sided Mexican coin don't figure it is Silver.

Anybody care to guess how many are in her 7 ender Box?

Well she is done with her 6 Boxes (no skunks), the last one with 7 enders had 2 %90's and 71 %40's
for a total of 99 %40's and 2 %90's

Oh and a Diaz Peso with 7 sides.

 

[quiksilver]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

I dont think it takes much to cull silver. TD machines already seperate silver dimes and quarters. It probably wont take much adjustment to seperate halves.

 

[coinmojo]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

Well she has found some silver, there are no Skunks still working on her 6th and final box which has 7 enders; so far 17/3/3/3/2 (all %40's) 3 of her first 4 Rolls in 6th box had 2 each one had nothing, update in 1/2 hour or so.

Oh she also got a 1977 7 sided Mexican coin don't figure it is Silver.

Anybody care to guess how many are in her 7 ender Box?

Well she is done with her 6 Boxes (no skunks), the last one with 7 enders had 2 %90's and 71 %40's
for a total of 99 %40's and 2 %90's

Oh and a Diaz Peso with 7 sides.

So they combined for 1 short of a dream box... nice week.

Mojo

 

[mts]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

Once the coin is minted, it is sold to the Federal Reserve at face value. The cost to mint the coin and it's corresponding face value is called seigniorage. It is the profit the mint turns to fund other government programs. The Federal Reserve determines the fitness of our coin and paper currencies. (I mentioned this in my previous post, but you must have missed it.) If coin is rejected at the sorting facility, then it is still accounted for and forwarded to the nearest branch of the Federal Reserve. The Federal Reserve will account for all coin and paper that is not up to standards and credit the corresponding sorting facility. Even so, the coin/paper is accounted for that is destroyed.

I encourage everyone to schedule a visit with their nearest branch of the Federal Reserve. It is very informative.

Ok. But what happens if a "coin" is not actually a "coin"? Where do the "junk" rejects go (bottle caps, necco wafers, slugs, washers, etc.)? And what you are saying could still account for the silver going back to the mint if it is being "rejected" by the machines. That would imply that a machine that rejects silver at a sorting facility would result in said silver going back to the mint instead of into the boxes that coin roll hunters get. Or am I missing something?

What makes you think machines used by the courier are rejecting silver? My boxes are crappy here now, but I still get some silver every now and then so I know there is no "culling".

I would guess that any foreign coins, slugs, and assorted crap that finds its way to the courier is gonna get pitched (if it is not US currency), and the bank that sent it will not get credit for the coin so it is a "wash".

It would be interesting to see from all the CRHers here how many find some silver at least sometimes. I don't think there are many here who never find it if they do a decent number of boxes. Maybe some that always get skunks are near where that metal company (Jackson Metals?) was supposed to be buying huge amounts of halves a couple of years back and taking out the silver. Those rejects had to go someplace. Maybe those are what you keep getting MTS?

Jim

Jim, you are misunderstanding my intent. I am not saying that I am certain that machines used by couriers are rejecting silver. I'm only saying that I think it could be a possibility. Others are coming back and challenging that statement with "facts" that really aren't facts at all. I'm simply asking questions to show that people haven't proven one way or another whether or not some couriers could be using machines that reject silver. I am really surprised at how hard some people try to convince us all that it CAN'T be happening. It doesn't make sense to me that people would completely reject the possibility despite evidence that shows that it is indeed possible (albeit no necessarily plausible).

Basically, if you are getting silver in your boxes you can show that the courier in your area is either not using a machine that rejects silver or is using a machine that does so very poorly. Someone (like me) who has never gotten a single silver in a box can't prove anything. It could be that my courier is using a machine that rejects/culls silver. Or it could also be that I am plain unlucky. If the OP of this thread wants to prove it to himself then he has no real choice but to continue getting boxes. Even if those boxes are complete skunks from here on out he still can't prove it because the very next box could be a dream box which would disprove the theory that the local courier is rejecting/culling silver. Well, not really. Because it could be that the local courier got a few old boxes from a regional center in order to meet demand. Oh well, what can you do

This is why the argument continues to rage on and on with no end in sight. But instead of turning a blind eye to the possibility, I think it is better to accept the possibility in certain circumstances to guide us in our quest for silver. It would be a fools errand to continue ordering box after box of skunks in an area where the courier really is rejecting silver simply because you refuse to believe that it could be happening. But hey, that's a decision that every single coin roll hunter must make on their own. I've made my decision. I no longer waste time with boxes. I'm not going to waste time going through $10k worth of halves just to pull out one or two 40%'ers. I'm glad for the people who get loads of silver in boxes and I hope that they continue to have those kinds of results. Unfortunately, I'm not one of the lucky ones and I'm not willing to put in the time it would take to try and be one of the lucky ones. That's my decision to make.

And YES, I live in Ohio and could indeed be the recipient of boxes that have been searched by Jackson Metal.

 

[jim4silver]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

And YES, I live in Ohio and could indeed be the recipient of boxes that have been searched by Jackson Metal.

I think you have the answer to your question MTS.

Jim

 

[obediah]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

Yeah I skunked out this week first time in 8 months, but did get something unusual this week that aught to pay off nicely,no!

 

[timbobwey]

Re: End of CRH'ing Boxes has arrived............!

cute pups!