Coin Quality Question

[GrizLeeBear]

As a kid, back in the '50's, I was a small time collector, but not an investor. However, we learned that a PROOF coin was a mirror finish strike sold in a set and sealed in a hard plastic case. An UNCIRCULATED coin was one in a plastic sleeve, also sold in sets. By definition, any coin you could get your hands on was not Uncirculated. Any coin you find that has been touched, cannot be uncirculated. Yet I see a lot of pictures of people holding coins and claiming they are uncirculated. I believe the proper classification would be "Almost Uncirculated", or "Mint State". So, what is the basis for the claims? Not sure it really matters. Educate an old man. Thanks.

 

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[FloridaFinder]

You're exactly right. I also see many people write that the found an uncirculated (or UNC for short) coin that they pulled from circulation - like you say the pure fact that they pulled it from circulation means that it can't be considered UNC.

A better term would be "near UNC". Or maybe "near mint quality". The official terms are from the grading scale. I believe it is up to MS-65 for coins pulled from circulation, and MS-70 for uncirculated.

Hopefully one of our experts can chime in.

 

[Mackaydon]

Proof is not a grade, only a method of production that produces a brilliant, mirrorlike surfaces and very sharp details.
Mint State and Uncirculated are interchangeable terms though the word uncirculated (to me) is a misnomer in that it does apply to certain coins that are, in fact, in circulation. Uncirculated applies to coins that show no trace of wear and (excluding proof coins) are graded between MS-60 and MS-70 (degrees of Mint State).
Don.......

 

[waseeker]

Proof is not a grade, only a method of production that produces a brilliant, mirrorlike surfaces and very sharp details.
Mint State and Uncirculated are interchangeable terms though the word uncirculated (to me) is a misnomer in that it does apply to certain coins that are, in fact, in circulation. Uncirculated applies to coins that show no trace of wear and (excluding proof coins) are graded between MS-60 and MS-70 (degrees of Mint State).
Don.......

While I agree in principal with this, I personally think that there is no such thing as an uncirculated coin. The very fact that a coin moved from the mint to a consumer (be it a dealer, the fed or someone purchasing something from the mint) makes it circulated. I know this is not the common usage of the word these days and I too often will call a coin uncirculated.

As to mint state, a coin is either in the condition it left the mint or it isn't. For many many years we got along with descriptive notations that told a collector what condition the coin was in. It might be uncirculated, almost uncirculated, extra fine, very fine, fine, very good, good about good and fair. There were only written descriptions of what each grade entailed, but we pretty much knew what we were getting when ordering by mail based on these descriptions. An old time dealer in Louisiana that I dealt with for years only used 3 grades for uncirculated coins. They were uncirculated, brilliant uncirculated or gem brilliant uncirculated. By these descriptions I knew that I was getting what today would be either a MS 60, MS 63 or MS 65 coin.

Adding numbers to a descriptive grade came about because folks were trying to better define condition. For example if I had a coin that graded very fine, and was a bit better than the average very fine coin, but wouldn't be extra fine, by using a combination of description and number such as very fine 30 or very fine 35, I could maybe get a few more dollars for my very fine 35 coin than for my run of the mill very fine coin(VF25).

The next question is - Where did the numbers come from? I don't have the exact year, but Dr. William Sheldon (of large cent fame) was trying to develop a system to determine value for large cents of different grades in some sort of scientific manner. He arbitrarily selected a number range of 1-70. He started with what he referred to as a basal state 1 coin. Such a coin (large cent) would be identifiable as to date, type and variety (Sheldon Number). He then assigned a basal value for each date/variety. In theory if a coin had a basal state 1 value of 5.00 then a coin considered to be a 35 would be worth $175.00 (basal value of 5.00 X numerical grade of coin 35). This system didn't work very well nor did it gain wide acceptance for valuing large cents, but the numbering system was adopted by the coin community at large so instead of VF there could be VF 25, VF 30, VF 35, etc. And as Don mentioned above the range of 60-65 was reserved for "uncirculated" coins.

One final thought. Remember that grading standards change over time unless you are a large cent guy and use what is referred to as EAC grading. An example of this is my Standing Liberty Quarter collection. A couple of months ago I thought that I would go ahead an complete the set that I had started some 30+ years ago. I only need 5 or 6 to complete the set. The ones I needed were all pre 1925 and the dates can be weak even on higher grade examples. The ones in my set were purchased as F or VF and all had complete dates. What I was offered as a F or VF had barely legible dates and when compared side by side with my coins might have graded VG at the time I was putting together my set. My coins are now considered to be either XF or AU. My coins have been in a bank vault for 30 years so they didn't change, but the grading standards changed a lot during that time. After figuring out what it would cost me to finish the set so that the condition would be similar to what I already have, I decided to just put mine back in the safety deposit box. In another 30 years they will probably all be AU 59+++++ or what ever designation is used at that time.

Most of what I have written is done from memory as I no longer have a copy of Dr. Sheldon's Penny Whimsy where his system is explained so this is filtered through my memories which can be more and more suspect as time goes by.

 

[FloridaFinder]

The basic definition for uncirculated is never touched by human hands. We have oils extruding from our skin, so if we touch metal then those oils transfer to the metal and can cause a chemical reaction - ex. silver tarnishes.

When a mint sells a coin anyone that touches them while packing wear gloves to protect the coins. Precious metal coins that not intended for circulation usually will include a letter of certification, card with mintage info, etc.


Case in point, back in the 80's my great-grandmother bought me a couple of silver bullion coins from China. They came in a plastic holder, and a display case. I was told to never take them out of the case and touch them, or else they would lose value. That was my first clue about uncirculated coins.

Now, there are Not Intended For Circulation (NIFC) coins, like proofs and certain years of halves. If you find a proof in a coin roll, then you are fortunate enough to pay face value for a coin that cost someone else more than face value. The trade-off is the mirror finish is usually marred or scratched.