For discussion of all things bullion penny hording and sorting related.

[CognitiveDissident]

For discussion of all things bullion penny hoarding and sorting related.

I made an earlier thread that was more specific to the question of how to offload the zinkers but I think a more general thread for discussion of all things bullion penny related could be useful as well.

I have some experience in this line of ...work?... so happy to share any wisdom I may have to anyone interested in the topic. Unless you live too close to me, in which case GTFO my pennies you fiend.

 

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[StashTreasure]

So CD do you hoard all your copper pennies and offload them on Ebay?

 

[CognitiveDissident]

Hoard all, no ebay

 

[toorude89]

I have a 5 gallon bucket full of copper cents and I don't know what I want to do with it. Thinking ebay in the future.

 

[mxh5891]

I would say try Craigslist too if your looking to get the most money. EBay charges fees and so does PayPal if you go that route. I have never sold pennies but I have heard of people being successful this way. Just make sure you meet in a public place with lots of people around.

 

[CognitiveDissident]

Could always just stash it away for a half a century. That would have been a great idea for people who extracted out pre-65 silver back in the day and this a relatively analogous situation.

 

[galenrog]

Whenever I have a few gallons of .950 cents, I first check them for wheats and errors. Once that is done, I bag them in CoinLok bags of either $50 or $100, depending on what I think the local market is. I then put up a Craigslist ad. Sometimes I get a good premium, sometimes not so much. I try to stay away from eBay due to the heavy fees involved.

 

[Dozer D]

Hay CD: I hoard coppers too, have several buckets by now, but not yet ready to dump them. But I'm still pulling about 12-18% copper from every box, with no sign of letting up, except maybe the wheaties.

 

[CognitiveDissident]

Hay CD: I hoard coppers too, have several buckets by now, but not yet ready to dump them. But I'm still pulling about 12-18% copper from every box, with no sign of letting up, except maybe the wheaties.

Awesome! Glad to have met someone else who is involved in this. Can you tell me a little about your process? About how much do you do on average? How do you get your pennies? How do you offload the zinkers?

I'm averaging about a box a day. I said 2 boxes a day in my other thread but I thought about it a little harder and I think it averages to a box a day. I try to stop at banks that are along the route im traveling anyway in my normal life. Going out of ones way kills profit (theoretical profit, since i dont ever sell them i never realize the profit). I try to get no more than 1 box per week per branch of a bank so as to not overstay my welcome.

Thoughts on being honest vs making up some excuse? The one time the guy asked if I had a business account I lied and said I was picking them up for someone. I really wonder if i should have or could have just told the truth. Do you think they would care?

Very interested in your methods, experiences and learning from your experience.

 

[Dozer D]

CD: although I mostly hunt dimes, pennies are a solid backbone to fall back on when things get dull. I don't get the weekly quantities that you do but my process is quite detailed only because I have 12-grandkids that I am making th

 

[Dozer D]

CD: although I mostly hunt dimes, pennies are a solid backbone to fall back on when things get dull. I don't get the weekly quantities that you do but my process is quite detailed only because I have 12-grandkids that I am making th

I am making a filled as much as possible tri-folders of Lincoln cents (1909-to present). I sort the cents in groups of years, ext

 

[Joe777Cool]

Could always just stash it away for a half a century. That would have been a great idea for people who extracted out pre-65 silver back in the day and this a relatively analogous situation.

In 1964 if you had invested $1000 in silver coinage, today it is worth approx $11,000
In 1964 if you had invested $1000 in the S&P 500, today it would be worth approx $118,000

 

[Cobbolicious]

In 1964 if you had invested $1000 in silver coinage, today it is worth approx $11,000
In 1964 if you had invested $1000 in the S&P 500, today it would be worth approx $118,000

Since the S&P 500 has increased by a factor of approx. 23 (1951/84.75; see ^GSPC Interactive Stock Chart | Yahoo! Inc. Stock - Yahoo! Finance), you must be including dividend reinvestment. The ratio of the nominal S&P 500 index to silver was 84.75/1.293 = 65.545 in 1964, and is 1951/15.22 = 128.187 today. We have to remember to deduct taxes from the portfolio's value, but not from the value of coinage. Cf., e.g., CAGR of the Stock Market: Annualized Returns of the S&P 500 (value of $1,000 theoretical portfolio on Jan. 1, 1964 grew to $132,000 on Dec. 31, 2014; not inflation-adjusted); S&P 500 Dividend Reinvestment and Periodic Investment Calculator - Don't Quit Your Day Job... (must include nominal monthly investment or the calculation will break) (after-tax portfolio value of approx. $54,000 at $0.01 monthly investment from Sept. 1964 ($1,000) to Sept. 2015); Junk Silver for Sale | 90% Silver Bags of Quarters | APMEX (current retail price of $15,868 for $1,000 face-value bags of silver (buy price of $12,861)). With retail silver in high demand and an aging bull market, these numbers ($54,000 vs. $13,000), imo, will tend toward convergence.

 

[CognitiveDissident]

In 1964 if you had invested $1000 in silver coinage, today it is worth approx $11,000
In 1964 if you had invested $1000 in the S&P 500, today it would be worth approx $118,000

Awesome. There you go. 1000 into 11,000. Just like I said. Would have been a great idea. The absolute best thing you could have possibly done in the universe with your money? Certainly not. But neither would s&p 500 indices for that matter.

 

[Joe777Cool]

Awesome. There you go. 1000 into 11,000. Just like I said. Would have been a great idea.

sure....expect for that pesky thing called inflation. $1000 in 1964 = approx $7650 today. So you really invested $7650 for 51 years to end up with around $11000, $3350 profit or .75% compound interest per year. Hell if you go by the Apmex buy price of $12,861, you are only looking at approx 1.03% annual compounded interest. Point in all this, historically speaking, silver has been a means of STORING value or wealth, but not to increase it.

 

[CognitiveDissident]

sure....expect for that pesky thing called inflation. $1000 in 1964 = approx $7650 today. So you really invested $7650 for 51 years to end up with around $11000, $3350 profit or .75% compound interest per year. Hell if you go by the Apmex buy price of $12,861, you are only looking at approx 1.03% annual compounded interest. Point in all this, historically speaking, silver has been a means of STORING value or wealth, but not to increase it.

Sure. We know in retrospect that s&p indices sold now would have turned out fine, but that is ex-post knowledge. Ex-ante they were significantly more risky than silver. Risk aversion has a price. Anyway I stand by what I said even accepting all of your numbers arguendo. It would have been a pretty good idea to hold onto that silver and for similar reasons may be a good idea to just hold onto those cents.

 

[Joe777Cool]

Since the S&P 500 has increased by a factor of approx. 23 (1951/84.75; see ^GSPC Interactive Stock Chart | Yahoo! Inc. Stock - Yahoo! Finance), you must be including dividend reinvestment. The ratio of the nominal S&P 500 index to silver was 84.75/1.293 = 65.545 in 1964, and is 1951/15.22 = 128.187 today. We have to remember to deduct taxes from the portfolio's value, but not from the value of coinage. Cf., e.g., CAGR of the Stock Market: Annualized Returns of the S&P 500 (value of $1,000 theoretical portfolio on Jan. 1, 1964 grew to $132,000 on Dec. 31, 2014; not inflation-adjusted); S&P 500 Dividend Reinvestment and Periodic Investment Calculator - Don't Quit Your Day Job... (must include nominal monthly investment or the calculation will break) (after-tax portfolio value of approx. $54,000 at $0.01 monthly investment from Sept. 1964 ($1,000) to Sept. 2015); Junk Silver for Sale | 90% Silver Bags of Quarters | APMEX (current retail price of $15,868 for $1,000 face-value bags of silver (buy price of $12,861)). With retail silver in high demand and an aging bull market, these numbers ($54,000 vs. $13,000), imo, will tend toward convergence.

I am using a formula that included dividend reinvestment. One problem I am seeing in your calculations is that while reinvested dividends MAY be taxable depending upon the investment vehicle and tax laws (since everything here is hypothetical), currently this investment is treated as a long term capital gain and at todays tax rates would be taxed at 0% for the 10%–15% income tax brackets; 15% for the 25%–35% brackets; and 20% for the 39.6% bracket. Also keep in mind that long term precious metal gains are taxed at the higher IRS "collectibles" rate of 10% for the lowest income bracket and up to 28% for the highest.

 

[Joe777Cool]

Sure. We know in retrospect that s&p indices sold now would have turned out fine, but that is ex-post knowledge. Ex-ante they were significantly more risky than silver. Risk aversion has a price. Anyway I stand by what I said even accepting all of your numbers arguendo. It would have been a pretty good idea to hold onto that silver and for similar reasons may be a good idea to just hold onto those cents.

In comparison to stuffing cash into the mattress? Yes in retrospect it looks like it was a good idea. Physical metals have their own risks too, lets not forget. Namely theft, government confiscation, fakes/frauds, and who know what will happen in the coming years when you go to cash it in in terms or reporting/documentation.

 

[CognitiveDissident]

In comparison to stuffing cash into the mattress? Yes in retrospect it looks like it was a good idea. Physical metals have their own risks too, lets not forget. Namely theft, government confiscation, fakes/frauds, and who know what will happen in the coming years when you go to cash it in in terms or reporting/documentation.

I doubt any of his pennies are fake . I guess the government might confiscate his pennies, but you have to admit that even sounds funny to say out loud. You only have to worry about reporting it if you make a windfall, you probably aren't going to make a windfall on your pennies. Just barter with them locally, you will be able to get tons of great stuff no matter how draconian the reporting requirements and taxes. If they have government agents posing as craigslist sellers to nab malicious penny sellers, than yea i guess that sucks, but i doubt being "in the system" would be much better in that crazy world.

 

[Joe777Cool]

I doubt any of his pennies are fake . I guess the government might confiscate his pennies, but you have to admit that even sounds funny to say out loud. You only have to worry about reporting it if you make a windfall, you probably aren't going to make a windfall on your pennies. Just barter with them locally, you will be able to get tons of great stuff no matter how draconian the reporting requirements and taxes. If they have government agents posing as craigslist sellers to nab malicious penny sellers, than yea i guess that sucks, but i doubt being "in the system" would be much better in that crazy world.

I'm referring to all metals, not just copper. Fakes are all too common with gold/silver and other precious metals. And if you think US coinage is immune to forgery, Google Francis Henning. The Gold Reserve Act of 1934 - outlawed private possession of gold. "You only have to worry about reporting it if you make a windfall" - says the guy who clearly wants to be audited by the IRS =P.

If you belong to this website, odds are pretty high that you own some precious metals. I get it. But like I said earlier, one shouldn't confuse storing wealth with accumulating it.