Consulted a Lawyer, Re.: the Coin-star return slot contents .....

Tom_in_CA

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Just consulted a lawyer with the following question:

A) Assuming a coin-star machine is located on private property (Lucky's Grocery store for instance).

B) Assuming some of a customer's coins get rejected, and end up in the return-tray slot. Example: silver coins, foreign coins, gold coins, etc....

C) Assuming customer wasn't aware, (or didn't care) and walks away. Leaving the coins behind. Then ...

D) Who do those coins belong to? Assuming prior customer never comes back for them ?

E) Belong to the next lucky passerby who checks the return tray slot ?

F) Belong to the Store , on whose property the machine is located ?

G)
Belong to the Coin Star Vending machine Co's, who placed the machine there ?

H) Belong to the police , as Lost & Found Property ?

Here was the Lawyer's answer: "They belong to the Coin Star machine Co. " Not the store. And not anyone who passes by . And not the police, since it's on private property, not public ( and because presumably they aren't worth the $100 -or-more threshold anyhow). And he said there's usually a ph. # on the machine to call for questions, inquiries, claims, etc....

I asked him for his source/citation of law that would back up this legal opinion. He said that it's "common law". But that .... if someone cared to research it long enough, it would be in "case law". I asked "what case law can you cite?". He said that if I wanted to send them a letter, they would research further to provide the case law precedents. But that he was "100% confident".

I am not going to bother their firm to delve into it , to find case law precedents. As I don't want to test their patience :) But there you have it. That's the technical answer. Then he finished the phone call by saying he'd once found .50c in the change slot of the soda machine at their office lobby. And kept it. :tongue3:
 

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Tom_in_CA

Tom_in_CA

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Oops. Double post.
 

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kcm

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Tom, tom, TOM, Tommy Tom - There's nothing wrong with taking coins out of a Coinstar, pay phone or vending machine return slot/tray if there is nobody else after the money. If someone leaves it there, they abandon it. As a return slot provided by the vending machine company, they, also, do not want to haggle with anything left behind. It simply would be more troublesome for them than what it'd be worth!! So in essence, we're actually doing Coinstar a FAVOR by keeping their return slots clear of coins, as well as anything else that went into the machine but got discarded. ..."Discarded" (<-- key word there) The more hands-on Coinstar has to be, the more it costs them. Also, the rules concerning coinage in many areas varies. Some areas (like mine) will NOT accept customer wrapped rolls, while other areas ONLY accept coins in rolls. I'm sure there's a difference for commercial customers, as it would be quite impractical for a bank to require a laundromat to roll all their coins! :laughing7: In other words, it'd cost them to have someone double check every time the tray needs cleared to remove non-coins from the ones that the machine SHOULD have kept. Also, any good currency that the machine returns is no money out of Coinstar's pocket, as they only pay out on the coinage that the machines count.

Honest Tom, it's ok. Really. :toothy4:
 

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Honest Samuel

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Does lack of getting caught make it right? ;)
Tom, Tom, relax, taking coins out of these machines, is no crimes. The coins are abandoned property. I agree with kcm, # 131. Are you telling us, that you do not take coins out of machines? Keep looking and keep what you find.
 

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G.I.B.

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Actually, politicians are public servants. Lawyers are not, unless they become politicians, as they are in the business of practicing law and are not bound to or paid by the public.

Public Defenders are paid entirely by tax dollars.

Every time a defendant files another appeal or motion, your tax dollars fund that as well. Every court transcript typed by some lady get paid from your tax dollars- and on and on and on...

(defendants sometimes get billed, but they rarely ever pay)
 

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Tom_in_CA

Tom_in_CA

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Tom, Tom, relax, taking coins out of these machines, is no crimes. The coins are abandoned property. I agree with kcm, # 131. Are you telling us, that you do not take coins out of machines? Keep looking and keep what you find.

Samuel, didn't you read the opening of this thread, page 1 ? I was passing on what a lawyer told me. Anything on store property, is private property. Whether it be money on the ground, money in a coin-change slot, money in the fitting room, etc... Same as if I "found" money at your house, for instance. I was pointing out that that's the technical legal answer, if anyone ever cared to "ask enough lawyers" And given enough case-precedents to pick apart.

No different than asking enough pencil pusher laywers in New York: "Is it ok to spit on sidewalks ?", I'm sure one would tell that ... technically ... no you can't can't spit on sidewalks or jaywalk, etc... Yet as we all know, you can do those actions till you're blue in the face.

It was all just sort of a sample test case, to connect to other avenues of our md'ing hobby. Where .... well meaning and sincere md'rs sort of do exactly this: Go in asking pencil pushers "can I?" type questions, and getting silly technical answers such as this.

Naturally we should not "throw caution to the wind". But on the other hand, .... sometimes we just know that if no one cares , well then let THAT be the test. Eh ?
 

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Tom_in_CA

Tom_in_CA

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LMAO... The guy who advocates trespassing as long as there are no signs posted has a conscience...

It's all tongue in cheek as a sort of study on the psychology of our efforts to be law abiding, and how we go about finding what "constitutes law", as it applies to our hobby. I have no conscience of coins in the return slot either. I take 'em !
 

kcm

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Someone else wrote in how it states right on the machines for customers to check the return tray. If they don't, it's their [the customer's] loss. Coinstar has already rejected and discarded those coins, per their own machine(s). Keep in mind that it's not only coins that show up. There are sometimes foreign currency, tokens, metal discs, plastic, dirt, gum, not to mention coins in such poor shape that they can't even be properly identified.

Yes, some machines kick out perfectly good coins now and then. That's not a fault of the customer. And while the machine may reside on the premises of a store, that store does NOT own any of the contents - not even what is in the discard tray.

Now as far as that lawyer goes, he didn't even take the time to look up the actual legalities in this situation. Therefore, he was simply spewing out a CYA (Cover Your A**) answer to you, knowing that the answer he provided could not possibly come back to bite him in the rear.

So let's look at the facts:
1) Coinstar machine rejects coins - some maybe that are perfectly good
2) the customer had their chance to recover the discarded coins, but did not - for whatever reason - and walks away
3) Once the customer walks away, they lose their claim on said coins, as now there is no way to prove exactly which coins in the return slot "might" be theirs
4) neither the store nor the customer owns the contents of the machine, and Coinstar rejects the contents of the discard tray

So in the end, any discarded and abandoned coins in any public machine are simply up for grabs. They become the legal property of the first person who comes along and claims them.

Does Coinstar know that they're discarding perfectly good coins? Yes!! However, they're making their money on the 10% (or more!) that they make off of the coins that successfully make it through their machines. Trying to make such intelligent machines that no good coins were discarded is most likely cost-prohibitive at this time, which means that Coinstar, who most assuredly knows about this problem, really isn't too interested in trying to recoup those losses. If they ever "do" try to fix the problem, it will be in the form of newer machines with better coin identification, but the research and development for such machines would be very expensive. Another thing to look at is, these machines are out there in public, where someone could easily walk up and throw a handful of rocks into the machine - or MDing finds that are totaled - or tokens/foreign currency - or some kid stuffing his PB&J sandwich in the thing! Do they really want to put even more expensive machines out there?? Not to mention the full-time risk of some yahoo coming along and simply stealing the machine so he can go buy his next meth fix!
 

Honest Samuel

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It's all tongue in cheek as a sort of study on the psychology of our efforts to be law abiding, and how we go about finding what "constitutes law", as it applies to our hobby. I have no conscience of coins in the return slot either. I take 'em !
And you call me a thief for taking coins out of these machines, and complain about me doing it. Shame on you.
 

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Tom_in_CA

Tom_in_CA

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And you call me a thief for taking coins out of these machines, and complain about me doing it. Shame on you.

Samuel, I was only playing the devil's advocate. Hard to convey (without emoticons generously sprinkled) sometimes. Just a silly off-shoot of md'ing ... is coins, wherever you might find them afterall. And was just curious how this would shake out legally. To challenge anyone (like you) was only to prod to get to the root of a legal question. NOT that I too don't take the coins. Hope you didn't mistake me. I'm totally on your side ! :)
 

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