Loomis

[Jyorsky]

I live in small town with only about 6 banks within 40-50 miles or so. loomis is the go company for MR. HALVES. Been almost 2 years and zippo nada. Now I do not get the numbers everybody else gets, but I do get $500 now and and then, or $200-300. Still, skunks all the way around. Is loomis cherry picking?

 

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[Tommybuckets]

I've never seen a Loomis silver half but I occasionally still look. I'll keep you posted but don't hold your breath. I assume they got the machines tuned up. No way a couple rogue guys could snipe on that immense level.

 

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[LooseChange]

I found this guy a couple months back and got pretty excited. I saw he was doing something I was crunching numbers for a year ago; sorting large volumes of coin with a commercial coin sorter. He has bulk penny lots listed which is what originally peaked my curiosity. Looking further into his listings I came the the conclusion that he was sorting every denomination and was doing it on a large scale. I personally have found less that a half dozen screwdriver bits in the 50+ bags of coins I’ve searched this year and he sells 3lb lots of mixed bits every couple days!

If your curiosity is peaked by machine sorted cents, have you seen the Ryedale and home-made knock-offs?

http://www.pennysorter.com/
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/c...3-coin-sorters-more-pics-added-6-26-11-a.html
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/law...usands-dollars/story?id=15076522#.UVHBa7-aBmA
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/c...-maybe-we-approaching-wrong-way-ryedales.html

 

[SFBayArea]

It's been a long long time since I've posted on this forum. I used to complain about the word getting out about the hobby and that being the ending of it. With this forum along with Youtubers, it's not a secret anymore. I get the entertainment value part but at the same time, the word spreads and someone with big money will try to squeeze out the little guy. People used to wonder if the coin sorting companies sorted out silver. Well the answer is a partial yes from the poster Liu21. With the advent of newer coin sorting machines that not only count but sort out non-matching coins, it's a matter of time before that replaces the other older machines. With the mention of Loomis sorting out coins, that's probably gonna be the new wave. This hobby will eventually die out for finding silver. You can still do it for errors, rare dates, and rare collectibles put out by the mint but silver days will eventually be a question of is it worth your time? Only option will be to ask the tellers for their coins before it gets sent off. The hobby won't be so fun anymore.

I actually moved from NorCal to SoCal a few years back. I started to CRH as a hobby again last year after taking a few years off from it. What is interesting is that I think that's what is happening here now with boxes of commonly used coins. I was trying to find enough war nickels to fill a whole roll (I don't have huge aspirations for this as it takes longer to go through a nickel box than a halves box). I recall the rates being different and used to get on average one war nickel per 1-2 boxes with occasional Buffalo Nickels mixed in years ago. I've been on skunk streak with the war nickels. Yes, I do find the Buffalo Nickels (common dates and no-dated) but the war nickels have disappeared. Additionally, any foreign coin found was of 75% copper and 25% nickel composition. These boxes all have a stamp on them "Brinks Los Angeles Coin" and the name of the person who inspected the box supposedly stamped on them. I know from experience that these are very skunkish and most likely sorted with new machines. It was notable that the only good box that I got that had 2 war nickels in there had a "mechanical" word stamped on it. That was rare. It lead to me to conclude that these coin sorting facilities are using new machines that sort out not only the foreign unwanted coins but the silver too. I'm guessing that the only reason why that one box had war nickels was because the new sorting machine must have gone out of service briefly and they had to use a "mechanical" older version they had as a backup. I had a bad feeling this was going to ruin this hobby eventually.

After seeing that ebay user's website, I noticed all those items being sold are ones you'd find in non-sorted boxes. I have found my share of guitar picks and British Pences throughout the years. It's oddly noticeable that he sells rolls of all sorts of coins but not Buffalo Nickels. Lol. Buffalo Nickels are probably the only types of old collectible coins from common denominations that can't be sorted out by newer machines. But then again who wants to CRH for common date Buffalos and worthless no-date Buffalos. You can still CRH for pennies though. Hopefully, not every facility starts this. As for halves, I have found silver for non-stamped boxes after going through streaks of 18 and 15 skunks. I didn't have pronounced skunk streaks of this magnitude back in the day. Stamped boxes with what I mentioned above are extremely skunkish. As Liu21 stated, it really depends on the sorting facility who is doing this. I would say to only send your dumps to banks serviced by those facilities. I noticed branches from completely different bank companies will both have nickel boxes with the same stamp on them which in my opinion, was that they were both serviced by the same coin sorting company. This was drastically different than I was up north in the SF Bay Area. I noticed back then, the wrappers were different if the coins came from a Brinks, Loomis, or Dunbar facility. After for example, Brinks dimes boxes were skunkish, I would get coins from a Dunbar serviced bank and there were better. BTW, I think Brinks eventually bought up Dunbar. I never had issues with Loomis boxes back then. Off course, this could be a new thing Loomis got into after the word of CRHing going viral.

I'm guessing that area in Pennsylvania where the seller sorts must be very dry for silver. If any CRHer in that area can confirm, that would be nice. If these new sorting machines come to dominate coin sorting facilities, that would the end of CRHing nickels and dimes. People can still CRH pennies and quarters. Quarters for those W minted coins only. Unless the mint decides to pump new rarities into circulation, CRHing will go by the way side due to the big companies like Loomis squeezing out the little guy. I really don't do this hobby too much anymore as it's turned into a question of whether it's worth the time and gas to do this. I was only trying to fill a roll of war nickels through CRHing which back in the day should've been easy.

IMO, big sorting companies shouldn't do this to squeeze out CRHers. CRHers do provide a source of revenue for these companies because they charge banks to process coins. CRHers get coins from the bank and send them back to be sorted, recounted, and wrapped again. Sorting companies make money from this.

It's been a long time for me but those are just my thoughts on this.

 

[fistfulladirt]

Been a long lonely lonely lonely lonely lonely......time. Welcome back.

 

[Avago]

Hope this isn't the nail in the coffin, but I found the below info regarding "webcoins"

Webcoins - PennsylvaniaCorps ? Company Profiles of Pennsylvania

If you notice, they are incorporated, operate out of Harrisburg, and appear to be a subsidiary of N.F. String and Son, the notorious coin processing company.

Here is the Liu21 thread if anyone is interested:
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/coin-roll-hunting/495868-sort-coin-facilty.html

 

[SFBayArea]

Hope this isn't the nail in the coffin, but I found the below info regarding "webcoins"

Webcoins - PennsylvaniaCorps ? Company Profiles of Pennsylvania

If you notice, they are incorporated, operate out of Harrisburg, and appear to be a subsidiary of N.F. String and Son, the notorious coin processing company.

What's interesting is that back in the day during the recession days, I didn't mind getting those NF String and Son boxes. I recall those ones were better than the Brinks ones. Ahh the recession years were probably the golden years of CRHing. I really don't see NF String and Son rolls in boxes down where I am now.

Anyone have any thoughts countering this trend if major sorting facilities start doing this? I just think they'll lose revenue if CRHers die out. But then again, I'm sure it's a cost analysis for them. They probably spent a bunch of money to upgrade those new sorting machines and now they want their money back. Not every facility has been upgraded to new machines yet.

The hobby isn't going to completely die out. It's just a factor of is it worth your time and gas to do this. The mint should introduce more limited mintage coins into circulation like the W-minted quarters. Although I have not CRHed quarters.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

What I like to do is go through coin counter bags before they are sent to the sorting facilities. I have 2 banks that will sell me whatever bags they fill up. The halves are filling slowly but they will hold the bag for me.

I always wonder if it is worth it espeically where I am doing more photography www.jeffpadellphotography.com

 

[SFBayArea]

Apparently a lot of new coin sorters have a new technologies to sort out foreign coins so I suppose this means silver too. It's a matter of time before the old machines get replaced by these when they break down. The only way these new machines get replaced by older style machines again is if the government changes the composition of U.S. coins again which will set the internal wirings of these out of order. Write your congressman to change the composition of U.S. coins again.

 

[SFBayArea]

Apparently this machine tells you how many copper pennies and how many zincolns you have. The machine is internally wired to accept those two types of pennies. Notice how it has two different counts for pennies. It ended up rejecting a wheat cent. I recall there were some wheats that varied differently on composition due to tin mixed in.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I've never seen a Loomis silver half but I occasionally still look. I'll keep you posted but don't hold your breath. I assume they got the machines tuned up. No way a couple rogue guys could snipe on that immense level.

My two banks use Loomis and in 2019 I found 82 40% and 30 90% although I lost 3 months while I was in the hospital and also recuperating (Sep, Oct, Nov) in Dec found 3 90% and 6 40% all Loomis.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Apparently this machine tells you how many copper pennies and how many zincolns you have. The machine is internally wired to accept those two types of pennies. Notice how it has two different counts for pennies. It ended up rejecting a wheat cent. I recall there were some wheats that varied differently on composition due to tin mixed in.

What you should do is take one for the team - put a silver dime (I would say half or even a 40% but that may be too tough to do) and see if it accepts it or rejects it or takes it and doesn't count it because it went into the internal junk bin.

 

[SFBayArea]

My two banks use Loomis and in 2019 I found 82 40% and 30 90% although I lost 3 months while I was in the hospital and also recuperating (Sep, Oct, Nov) in Dec found 3 90% and 6 40% all Loomis.

As Liu21 explained before, it depends on the facility and who is doing the sorting. I think it also depends on the counting and sorting machines they are using as well. Newer machines are set up to reject silver/other different metals for very common denominations (ie nickels, dimes, quarters). My guess is since halves and small dollar coins (compositions vary for Susan B. Anthonys and new Maganese based yellow coins) are not commonly used, the machines may only be set up to accept size only and rejecting ones that don't have the right size. Have you CRHed boxed Nickels, Dimes, and Quarters in your area? If you get silver and foreign coins in common denomination boxes from your area, they may be still using the older coin sorting machines. Industrial size coin sorting machines are not cheap and they may not replace them if it ain't broke. IMO, it's just a matter of time when the newer ones replace the older ones tho. If compositions change again, it would throw these coin sorting machine manufacturers in for a loop and the facilities may just go back to the older machines and not care about foreign coins. It's all cost benefit analysis for them.

Lol... I would be too much of a cheap skate to put in a 40%er to see if it gets rejected. They do not have these sorters at the banks I go to. They ship off coins to be counted.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

for non-halves I do the bags right off the machine, the machine at the two banks I go through have been there for years. I tested it with a 40% half the day I was filling the last $50 in order to fill it and buy it off the machine and it counted it.

It could also be that there are less people dumping silver halves and other silver coins, it has been 54 years since they stopped the 90% coins after all so many of the people who saved them or had coin jars at the time have died and their heirs already dumped the coins

 

[SFBayArea]

for non-halves I do the bags right off the machine, the machine at the two banks I go through have been there for years. I tested it with a 40% half the day I was filling the last $50 in order to fill it and buy it off the machine and it counted it.

It could also be that there are less people dumping silver halves and other silver coins, it has been 54 years since they stopped the 90% coins after all so many of the people who saved them or had coin jars at the time have died and their heirs already dumped the coins

You should try it with a 90%er dime to see if it counts or rejects it. If it accepts it, then it's an older style machine that rejects on size only. If it rejects it, it is set up to discriminate for common denominations only. I still do get silver from halves but the numbers are not what they were and I debated quitting again after a series of long skunks. I just noticed how war nickels and other non 75% copper 25% nickel composition coins have disappeared and I see more buffalo nickels which I thought was odd from boxes in my area. I did CRH a box of dimes and got nothing but was just one box. I don't do as much CRHing as I did in years past.

 

[Megalodon]

for non-halves I do the bags right off the machine, the machine at the two banks I go through have been there for years. I tested it with a 40% half the day I was filling the last $50 in order to fill it and buy it off the machine and it counted it.

It could also be that there are less people dumping silver halves and other silver coins, it has been 54 years since they stopped the 90% coins after all so many of the people who saved them or had coin jars at the time have died and their heirs already dumped the coins

I've dumped halves a few times at a more distant branch of one of my credit unions. The first time I dumped there, the bag had not been changed since the machine was installed 8 or 9 years earlier. Sadly, they won't sell me the bags. The head teller at another credit union told me they were tripping over the bags waiting to be picked up. I told her I'd love to buy some bags. She replied that she'd love to sell them to me if only she could. Unfortunately, the credit union forbids bag sales due to a CRHer making a huge stink over a bag shortage of a few dimes.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

That is why I never complain if I am shorted or get junk in the bags.

 

[Owassokie]

This gets brought up from time to time as a theory to explain the decreased finds. Someone will always chime in that they know someone who knows someone to lend credibility to the theory. But there is no proof to support the claim. If they used a discriminator on their machines to cull the silver, then they need to re-calibrate the device as there are plenty that still find silver.

Instead of trying to lend credence to a conspiracy theory of corporate culling, one just needs to find a simpler theory to the reason for decreased finds. CRH'ing is no secret. There are more hunters and an ever decreasing supply of silver in the system. The only way for the silver to find it's way into circulation is from the private sector. There is no magical stockpile that the Treasury is trickling out to distribution channels.

DD, you have to recognize there's plenty of "theory" in your thoughts as well. Decreasing supply in the system? Maybe on a very small scale...other than melted coins, the supply is generally the same. The silver we were finding 10 years ago was from the same private sector. The same type of people releasing silver 10, 20, 30 years ago are releasing it today. I agree there are more hunters but still technically a theory. There's more information freely available today so my theory is there are vastly more hunters. Some of those hunters are involved in the courier service. We've heard direct word from people in our community that saw it or participated in it. I as well have heard directly from a bank employee I trust. All that said, I will agree none of the major couriers have a company wide policy (or machines) to remove silver.

The point I try to make is we always have this discussion and it's always either/or. Either couriers are taking coins or there's less supply because of the number of hunters. The truth is it's probably a combination of both being courier employees or people involved at some point of the delivery REPRESENT a portion of the increase in hunters.

 

[cyberdan]

I was in a CVS Pharmacy last week and while waiting for my meds a armored truck driver also stood waiting to make a pickup. We got to talking (actually I started it) I asked if he lugs around a lot of half dollar boxes and the answer was yes. I asked if he knew why there were so many boxes requested by banks, again a yes. He told me all his boxes have rubber stamped on top "contains no silver"

There are only about 4-5 banks in my county.

 

[fistfulladirt]

I was in a CVS Pharmacy last week and while waiting for my meds a armored truck driver also stood waiting to make a pickup. We got to talking (actually I started it) I asked if he lugs around a lot of half dollar boxes and the answer was yes. I asked if he knew why there were so many boxes requested by banks, again a yes. He told me all his boxes have rubber stamped on top "contains no silver"

There are only about 4-5 banks in my county.

why is there so much courier delivery if finds are so slim? And who are these people ordering halves?

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

why is there so much courier delivery if finds are so slim? And who are these people ordering halves?

optimists like me!