Potential IRS Rule -- Problem for CRHers?
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  1. #1
    us
    Oct 2009
    Massachusetts
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    Potential IRS Rule -- Problem for CRHers?

    Part of the American Families Plan Act of May, 2021 is a provision that requires banks to report all transactions that exceeded $600.
    This requirement had been part of the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) of 2012, but was repealed before the law was put into effect.

    Further, financial institutions house a lot of valuable information, and indeed already provide third-party reports to the IRS. Leveraging this information?rather than introducing new requirements for taxpayers55?is a proven way to improve compliance.56
    55 As part of the Affordable Care Act, a new provision was introduced which would have required businesses to send Form 1099 information returns for all purchases of goods and services over $600. It was set to go into effect in 2012 but repealed six months prior to enactment because of a concern about the burden imposed on small businesses. National Taxpayer Advocate, 2010. ?Fiscal Year 2011 Objectives Report to Congress.?


    What does this proposed regulation have to do with coin roll hunting?
    My take is that any time someone orders more than $600 of coins (for example, 2 boxes of halves), the bank would have to report that transaction to the IRS. Same story when you dump more than $600.
    I can then foresee banks limiting orders for rolls / boxes and enacting some kind of maximum amount that one may dump in the coin machines, since both kinds of transactions would be subject to IRS reporting which would obviously include one?s social security number.

    See links below for further reading.
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/02/irs-...x-evasion.html
    https://home.treasury.gov/system/fil...nce-Agenda.pdf

  2. #2
    us
    Jun 2014
    The 2nd State
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    Coin Roll Hunting
    Seems like it would only be reportable if you're withdrawing from or depositing into your account. And even so, if you're depositing/withdrawing it wouldn't necessarily show unreported income.

    In the case of CRH, we basically just re-circulate and re-circulate the same bankroll over and over. Withdraw $1,000, search it, redeposit $999.50 (if you're lucky, ha!)

    I'm sure the banks don't want the burden of doing this reporting but I doubt they would impose limits at the risk of turning away customers.
    2019 CRH Total

    $291,495 halves
    ---574 boxes---$3940 CWR---$220 MWR---$335 loose
    ---90% - 209------90% - 64------90% - 0-----90% - 3-----> 276
    ---40% - 912-----40% - 76------40% - 8------40% - 13----> 1009
    Ken-1182---Ben-52---WL-50---Barb-1---Total ---> 1285 Silvers/257.18 oz.

    "The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion." -Camus

  3. #3

    Dec 2006
    Twin Cities, MN
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    So if you wanted 6 $100 bills instead of 30 $20 bills or vice versa, would that need to be reported?

    I somehow doubt banks will be reporting all of those type of transactions when done in cash. Coins should be similar, but my guess it will vary by bank if ever implemented.
    LooseChange likes this.

  4. #4
    us
    Certified village idiot

    Oct 2020
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    Nothing like being shaken down for every penny by the government your tax dollars go to fund. Damn crooks.

  5. #5
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    Well, if you sell anything electronically and get paid by Paypal etc, if the item or items reach $600 you WILL get a 1099 from the gov't starting January. Numerous states already have that rule in effect now.
    SeabeeRon and crashbandicoot like this.

  6. #6

    Sep 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMan00001 View Post
    So if you wanted 6 $100 bills instead of 30 $20 bills or vice versa, would that need to be reported?

    I somehow doubt banks will be reporting all of those type of transactions when done in cash. Coins should be similar, but my guess it will vary by bank if ever implemented.
    I think this is right. When you exchange cash for coin or coin for cash, you are not buying anything.
    Same should apply if you cash a $650 check.
    crashbandicoot likes this.

  7. #7
    us
    Jan 2016
    South of Gunnison, Gold Basin
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    Theres no transaction when you buy coins from the bank. You're only trading dollar bills for coins.

  8. #8
    Charter Member
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    Jul 2019
    Binghamton NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokeythecat View Post
    Well, if you sell anything electronically and get paid by Paypal etc, if the item or items reach $600 you WILL get a 1099 from the gov't starting January. Numerous states already have that rule in effect now.
    I wonder if that will happen. I sell online every day, and the $600 limit is not that large for what we sell. I've never gotten a 1099 from anyone but from some universities who are sticklers about that sort of thing....maybe a couple a year. We've never had one from an individual, or from many auction houses. Certain thresholds will get you one from eBay or Amazon, but their threshold, is, I think, 20K in sales in a year.
    crashbandicoot likes this.
    Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. Matthew 13.

  9. #9
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    Ohiogoldfever, I get it, however, I have no power to do anything about it.

    Now theoretically, a tax bill like this has to pass both houses of Congress.

    Creakydigger, it's already been written into law. Plan wisely.
    Last edited by smokeythecat; Sep 15, 2021 at 09:27 AM.

  10. #10

    Dec 2012
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    The act only applies to credit cards and third-party network transactions (Paypal).
    crashbandicoot and Ryano like this.

  11. #11
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    No politics please.
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  12. #12

    Dec 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by CreakyDigger View Post
    I wonder if that will happen. I sell online every day, and the $600 limit is not that large for what we sell. I've never gotten a 1099 from anyone but from some universities who are sticklers about that sort of thing....maybe a couple a year. We've never had one from an individual, or from many auction houses. Certain thresholds will get you one from eBay or Amazon, but their threshold, is, I think, 20K in sales in a year.
    While you may not have hit the legal threshold in the past or even in 2021, the rules change starting Jan 2022 to the $600 limit without a transaction limit. If you have been claiming all income acquired that way in the past on your income taxes, this won't impact you. If not and you are selling online or getting payments via services like paypal goods and services or selling using sites like ebay, however, you will now get a 1099 in Jan 2023 if you cross the $600 threshold via any one method.

  13. #13
    us
    Aug 2006
    Leesburg, VA
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    Hi My Fellow TH'ers
    I do not know about this $600.00 reporting issue. From what I recall it has always been at the $10K level that the banks must report 'Deposits'. This is how one of the employees from the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) was caught depositing $9K of brand new $100.00 Ben Franklin bill several years ago. The teller got suspicious that a woman was making $9K deposits on a daily basis. Even though the reporting level was not met the daily deposits made the teller call IRS or the FBI. The lady's husband was an employee of the BEP and was able to walk out of the building due to his high level (RHIP) unsearched. The IRS or FBI obtained a search warrant and stopped him in the parking lot. They searched him and his briefcase and found several thousand dollars of new $100. When they searched the trunk of his car they found $14 Million+ of new $100 bills. They then searched his house and found an untold amount of new $100 bills. He was arrested and lost his job, retirement, his house, car, his mother's car and house, and all their possessions. Everything was put up for auction and sold and the funds were returned to the BEP. At trial it was found out that he could not be charged with theft of 'Money' as the $100s were test currency. Once a new print plate is made it has to be tested to make sure everything is correct. The 'Test' money that is printed is then destroyed by being shredded. At the time the shredded currency was being burned to produce energy. Until the printed notes are accepted by the Federal Reserve it is not considered currency. It spends the same and will test the same but is only considered Government Property until it is accepted by the Federal Reserve. He was charged with Theft of Government Property. The max time he could be imprisoned is six months, thus that was his sentence. As soon as he was released from prison (from what I was told) he boarded a plane to Switzerland. I wonder why
    One of the awards that I was involved with was to buy a print plate attachment that said 'TEST' in large bold letters. Life goes on! Glad that I am now retired! ;-)
    pepperj and Phil like this.

  14. #14
    Charter Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by THing4CSA View Post
    Hi My Fellow TH'ers
    I do not know about this $600.00 reporting issue. From what I recall it has always been at the $10K level that the banks must report 'Deposits'. This is how one of the employees from the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) was caught depositing $9K of brand new $100.00 Ben Franklin bill several years ago. The teller got suspicious that a woman was making $9K deposits on a daily basis. Even though the reporting level was not met the daily deposits made the teller call IRS or the FBI. The lady's husband was an employee of the BEP and was able to walk out of the building due to his high level (RHIP) unsearched. The IRS or FBI obtained a search warrant and stopped him in the parking lot. They searched him and his briefcase and found several thousand dollars of new $100. When they searched the trunk of his car they found $14 Million+ of new $100 bills. They then searched his house and found an untold amount of new $100 bills. He was arrested and lost his job, retirement, his house, car, his mother's car and house, and all their possessions. Everything was put up for auction and sold and the funds were returned to the BEP. At trial it was found out that he could not be charged with theft of 'Money' as the $100s were test currency. Once a new print plate is made it has to be tested to make sure everything is correct. The 'Test' money that is printed is then destroyed by being shredded. At the time the shredded currency was being burned to produce energy. Until the printed notes are accepted by the Federal Reserve it is not considered currency. It spends the same and will test the same but is only considered Government Property until it is accepted by the Federal Reserve. He was charged with Theft of Government Property. The max time he could be imprisoned is six months, thus that was his sentence. As soon as he was released from prison (from what I was told) he boarded a plane to Switzerland. I wonder why
    One of the awards that I was involved with was to buy a print plate attachment that said 'TEST' in large bold letters. Life goes on! Glad that I am now retired! ;-)
    Great story! The $600 reporting criteria is new, has not yet passed both houses of Congress, I don't believe. But so far amendments to get rid of the requirement have not passed. Here is one article criticizing the proposal.
    Phil likes this.
    Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. Matthew 13.

  15. #15
    ca
    Feb 2009
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    $600 seems to be a low threshold for any transaction. In Canada it has been the 10K threshold as most states, even the border-going or coming in, it's the 10K.
    Show up with 10K though, the red flags are flowing.

    In the banking system they have the discretionary policy of reporting or not.
    Regular customer-they might ask what was source of the money-sale of car-discretionary call on the tellers part.
    They can even report $200 if they feel it's been obtained through something that's not legit. Totally their call if they decide to report or not.
    Bottom line if a person wants to be discreet-a box of chocolates goes a long way for others looking the other way.
    CreakyDigger and Phil like this.
    "If it was easy-It would have already been done-Life 101."

 

 
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