Help with 1 oz 69 Krugerrand is it a Proof or no, reading conflicting info.

[Joe Dirt]

Help with 1 oz 69' Krugerrand is it a Proof or no, reading conflicting info.

I just picked this up at a local auction (not cheap either).. It's a 1oz 1969 Krugerrand in a 14K bezel with a 14K rope chain. I have 3 receipts from 1979, 1 for the bezel, 1 for the rope chain & one that isn't exactly clear what's it's for but the price would indicate it's for the Krugerrand it's self. The receipts total just over $1000 & again this was back in 1979 & It was a 50th anniversary gift. There is 17.67 grams of 14K gold between the chain & bezel + the 33.93 grams of 22K in the coin.

Now my question is if this coin is a proof or not? It is mirror like just as a proof should be but I'm coming up with conflicting info on if the raised areas were frosted or not on a 1969 Krug. This site 1969 Proof Krugerrand, South African 1969 Krugerrands says the 69' wasn't frosted but also says on another page the 67' was the only unfrosted one (the 68' was frosted some both sides were & some only 1 side was) while on ebay's completed auctions a 69' recently sold for $1995 that looks to be frosted?

Was a 69' Krugerrand Proof frosted or not? The coin is in the bezel so I can't exactly examine the rim & reeding tho older proofs supposedly had the same reeding as normal bullion Krugs up till 1970 something. I know the mintage of the 69' is rather low (30K reg & 10K proofs) & many were returned & remelted for some reason so I like that!

Any Krug experts on here? I'd really like to know exactly what I have here!

 

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[4reale]

Even if the coin were proof when new, being set in a bezel means it was touched by human hands, i.e.. it's no longer a proof coin. It's a moot point anyway - it's worth what the price of gold is worth, and the bottom left photo clearly shows scratches on the coins face, so it's not a proof coin. Proof is MINT, and they are usually encased at the mint and sold that way.

 

[Joe Dirt]

Even if the coin were proof when new, being set in a bezel means it was touched by human hands, i.e.. it's no longer a proof coin. It's a moot point anyway - it's worth what the price of gold is worth, and the bottom left photo clearly shows scratches on the coins face, so it's not a proof coin. Proof is MINT, and they are usually encased at the mint and sold that way.

I see you don't know much about Krugerrand's... because early Proof Krugs were handled exactly the same as the regular bullion Krugs were so you are NOT EVER gonna find a pre late 70's or even early 80's proof Krug like you would find a USA Proof coin! They were never sealed from the mint or or handled special or anything (till the late 80's or even the mid 90's) so as I said they were handled just like the regular Krugs were! There is no such thing as old especially 60's "mint" condition Krug proofs for this reason. A real good 69' Krug gets a 65-66 grading & there are very very few of these out there. ONLY 3 69' regular Krugs have ever graded above a 66 & only 20 69' proof krugs have graded above PR65 with PR68 being the best one so I have read.

BTW A coin is stamped as a proof or stamped as a regular coin & this is what makes it a proof coin or not. Proofs are struck with specially treated & polished dyes. After stamping if that coin is treated correctly it would or could get a 69-70 grading & if it wasn't treated correctly it would score lower but this does not make it a moot point as it's either struck as a proof or it's wasn't regardless of how it was handled after it was stamped.

Example... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-1-oz-PROOF-Gold-South-African-Krugerrand-/221121115006?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item337bd8737e&nma=true&si=lU8b04Qei8pe2g2%2FO%2BEBYCGTiGw%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 That was advertised as a 69' proof Krug & it has lots of scratches, not in a case or sealed in plastic + sold for $1994 which BTW is over spot & any good condition 68' or 69' Krug is worth more than its weight in gold as there were only about 40,000 produced & only 10,000 of which were proofs for each of those 2 years. In 70' there were 221,018 produced w/10K more proofs, then in 71' 556,200 were produced but only 6000 more were proofs. Even the first year (67') there were 50K made so the 68 & 69 is of value unless its totally trashed.

AMPEX has 2 1969's 1 of which is a proof @ basically $2100, it graded PR65 Ultra Cameo & if you look at it you can tell it was mounted in a bezel at one time http://www.apmex.com/Product/72896/1969_1_oz_Proof_Gold_South_African_Krugerrand__PR_65UC_NGC.aspx. Now the other is not a proof but still graded MS66, they want basically $2200 for it & it was also once mounted in a bezel as you can see from the pichttp://www.apmex.com/Product/67340/1969_1_oz_Gold_South_African_Krugerrand__NGC_MS66.aspx. I thought for a minute maybe they used a stock photo for these 2 but the photos are indeed different from each other.

Oh wow I just noticed the 69' Proof graded PR65 ultra cameo in the link above doesn't look frosted, hmmm ...but actually the MS66 one is almost identical to mine as in color depth & it has a sort of polished look to it the same way mine does. Now I'm thinking mines not a proof & if it's not it sure is a nice looking non proof coin + it's weird that a proof graded 65UC is $100 less than a non proof graded MS 66