Coin investment questions

[Twitch]

I have a small coin collection, but have only ever bought coins that I wanted, never bought anything as an investment. That being said I'm thinking I may start to buy and sell and see if I can make a little money. Does anyone have a good reference site for what I should be able to expect to get out of certain coins for sale? A couple of specific questions, what should I be able to get out of the following coins:

$2-1/2 gold, 1912, ~VG
$5 gold, 1880, VF
Misc Morgans
Misc Peace
Misc IH pennies (can you really sell these? Who would buy them)
Is there any money to be made in proof or mint sets?

Just trying to get a few things figured out. Any help you all can provide is greatly appreciated.

I bought my first 'investment' coin today kind of on impulse and I know I overpaid. I'd like to get a little smarter moving forward.

Thanks,
Twitch

 

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[Iron Patch]

Completed listings on ebay is a great reference for real world prices.

As for investing in coins my philosophy is to buy the best deals regardless of what they are. That way if things go up you really do well, but if they go down you still break even. Impulse buying and overpaying as you have realized is not the smart way to go. Back when I started buying to sell, I also collected a bit, and found myself buying too many coins because I liked them, not because they were the best deal, and it didn't take long to know that doesn't work and to stop and stick to selling.

 

[Mackaydon]

Buy quality, not quantity; follow price trends--buy trending hot, sell trending cold. Takes a lot of discipline, patience and research but worth it.
Don.....

 

[jerseyben]

Wait a sec...

So you are saying you know very little about coins and you don't know how to determine their market value... Yet you want to make money by flipping coins?!?

I admire your enthusiasm but why don't you do some research, say for a good year, before you jump right into something you know nothing about.

 

[Twitch]

Thanks everyone, sound advice. I'm going to take a spin tomorrow after work and see what happens. If I end up buying or get close but chicken out because of price, I'll post the results and you all can tell me if did good or not.

JerseyBen - I appreciate the words of caution. I don't really know how to rate my collection, but I'm fairly knowledgeable on coins, just less so on the market that includes them. I'm really just trying to start w/ gold and silver and work them against spot. Nothing major, just looking to play around a little bit.

 

[Iron Patch]

Flipping vs long term investment, now that's a good topic in this conversation. A while back when I was selling a lot of coins a dealer from the West coast gave me a tip, something he had done, which was to put one good coin aside every week as an investment and he said you wouldn't believe how fast it will grow both in numbers and in value. I do agree it would be a good way to save, but at the end of the day I know I would make much more flipping the coins and reinvesting the money into more. That's probably why I hate the whole concept of investing in coins (long term) because you have rely on factors you can not control, where as making steady deals you're always gaining. From 2002 to 2009 had I put all profits into items instead of taking the cash I would have lost many many thousands of dollars because several things changed, so who's to say if you drop a ton on stuff now you're going to come out ahead in 10 years. I do want to believe with the Internet and all the new reality shows things like antiques and coins will stay strong, but it's hard to ignore how much the new generation cares about their gadgets and not about collecting. What I would suggest is you do what I do and get the best of both worlds, collect-invest, but always have everything for sale. My current goal is to build a large collection but it will be one that's both growing and changing. What I should also say is it is not that easy, and that's also where I thinking flipping is better because you'll learn from mistakes fast, unlike a long term thing where you could repeat the same mistake for a very long time and only realize when it's too late.

 

[Generic_Lad]

General rule for investing:

The good coins are already selling for a lot, that coin you bought for $5 just to fill a hole in your type set will only be worth $5 20 years into the future.


Most important thing you can do is learn how to grade, and grade accurately. Learn what will cause a coin to be rejected by PCGS/NGC. Second most important thing is to know foreign coins. You're unlikely to get a 1916-D Mercury dime for scrap in the US, on the other hand, you are quite likely to find some other country's equivalent to a 1916-D mercury dime selling for scrap simply because the shop owner threw it in a bin of foreign coins because he doesn't want to research it.

 

[Twitch]

IP - What you described is exactly what I was planning.

Generic Lad - Very good points, thanks.

So here are the buys I didn't make tonight. Please give your feedback on whether I made good decisions or not. Thanks in advance for the critique.

Bulk (~1,200) Indian Head Cents - They went for ~$1.70 apiece. I had to pass.
Common Morgans - $33 apiece. I think that's a bit much.
Common Peace $'s - $33 apiece. Same.
1912 $2-1/2 gold that had been removed from a pendant (4 small solder marks on edge). Went for $260. I thought that was way too much.
1914 $5 gold, reasonable () condition - $460. I didn't think it was a crazy price, but didn't seem like a bargain either.
1880 $5 gold, not slabbed but AU50 written on the holder (i know that's not worth anything) - $460 also. I almost bit on this one, but again, I just didn't think there was any room to profit on it.

Please let me know how stupid I am.

Thanks.

 

[Iron Patch]

General rule for investing:

The good coins are already selling for a lot, that coin you bought for $5 just to fill a hole in your type set will only be worth $5 20 years into the future.

The same can probably be said for a $20 coin, or even a $50 coin, so the part you're missing is you don't pay $50 for a $50 coin, you shop for deals and pay much less. I believe buying only high end quality coins as an investment is the old way of thinking because back in the day it was typically an experienced dealer you bought from so it was hard to get a great deal, which meant you had to rely on the trends changing and hope prices increased.... but how much is lost do to inflation? Now with the internet everyone and his brother has become their own dealer for their coins, and guess what, not all of them know what they're doing, and some not even a clue. So there's ton of deals out there for anyone who already has a decent handle on values. I buy many thousands of dollars worth of coins every year, flip them relatively fast, and am pretty sure what I make doing this is far more than if I put many high end coins in a vault and waited 10 years, and seen how much over my buying price I could get. Constant flipping also give you the revenue to keep buying and investing, but coins put away do nothing but take up space and you have to keep sinking more and more cash into it. Anyway, that's my opposition response for everyone that says you should only invest in higher end coins, because I know it's not really true, and people who don't have large amounts of cash can definitely still play this game, because I do, and have for over 10 years.

 

[50cent]

Flipping vs long term investment, now that's a good topic in this conversation. A while back when I was selling a lot of coins a dealer from the West coast gave me a tip, something he had done, which was to put one good coin aside every week as an investment and he said you wouldn't believe how fast it will grow both in numbers and in value. I do agree it would be a good way to save, but at the end of the day I know I would make much more flipping the coins and reinvesting the money into more. That's probably why I hate the whole concept of investing in coins (long term) because you have rely on factors you can not control, where as making steady deals you're always gaining. From 2002 to 2009 had I put all profits into items instead of taking the cash I would have lost many many thousands of dollars because several things changed, so who's to say if you drop a ton on stuff now you're going to come out ahead in 10 years. I do want to believe with the Internet and all the new reality shows things like antiques and coins will stay strong, but it's hard to ignore how much the new generation cares about their gadgets and not about collecting. What I would suggest is you do what I do and get the best of both worlds, collect-invest, but always have everything for sale. My current goal is to build a large collection but it will be one that's both growing and changing. What I should also say is it is not that easy, and that's also where I thinking flipping is better because you'll learn from mistakes fast, unlike a long term thing where you could repeat the same mistake for a very long time and only realize when it's too late.

i read it once, and I read it twice, and I has read 3 times, this man knows what he is talking about follow his advice or get out of the game.

 

[jerseyben]

IP - What you described is exactly what I was planning.

Generic Lad - Very good points, thanks.

So here are the buys I didn't make tonight. Please give your feedback on whether I made good decisions or not. Thanks in advance for the critique.

Bulk (~1,200) Indian Head Cents - They went for ~$1.70 apiece. I had to pass.
Common Morgans - $33 apiece. I think that's a bit much.
Common Peace $'s - $33 apiece. Same.
1912 $2-1/2 gold that had been removed from a pendant (4 small solder marks on edge). Went for $260. I thought that was way too much.
1914 $5 gold, reasonable () condition - $460. I didn't think it was a crazy price, but didn't seem like a bargain either.
1880 $5 gold, not slabbed but AU50 written on the holder (i know that's not worth anything) - $460 also. I almost bit on this one, but again, I just didn't think there was any room to profit on it.

Please let me know how stupid I am.

Thanks.

Don't take this the wrong way but...

Many people have offered you some extremely gracious and helpful advice.

I think you are pushing your luck by asking for us to evaluate your deals. It is insulting that you want others to do the work for you when several people have already given you a very firm starting point.

 

[Iron Patch]

IP - What you described is exactly what I was planning.

Generic Lad - Very good points, thanks.

So here are the buys I didn't make tonight. Please give your feedback on whether I made good decisions or not. Thanks in advance for the critique.

Bulk (~1,200) Indian Head Cents - They went for ~$1.70 apiece. I had to pass.
Common Morgans - $33 apiece. I think that's a bit much.
Common Peace $'s - $33 apiece. Same.
1912 $2-1/2 gold that had been removed from a pendant (4 small solder marks on edge). Went for $260. I thought that was way too much.
1914 $5 gold, reasonable () condition - $460. I didn't think it was a crazy price, but didn't seem like a bargain either.
1880 $5 gold, not slabbed but AU50 written on the holder (i know that's not worth anything) - $460 also. I almost bit on this one, but again, I just didn't think there was any room to profit on it.

Please let me know how stupid I am.

Thanks.

I'd have no problem with it, but can't, because it's not what I buy. In general things like this are pretty easy to figure out, you just look at past sales and do the math, and remember there's only one thing that counts..... and that's the ability to sell them for more. I remember several years back I was buying a lot of collections, cherry picking the best, and selling off the crap in lots and doing great on the lots! So what did I do, I started buying low end lots everywhere I could find them and just relisting them in groups and doing well. Many types of coins I have a good idea of value but also go with my gut a lot of times and I don't really fear what I pay because I know all I need is one person who will pay me more. If I pay high, then maybe it might take a while even just to make a small profit, but as long as I don't lose, not a problem. I very rarely make a real bad buy, but too many at near break even can be a problem because it ties up money fast (as it takes time to sell at a profit)... and you don't want to end up short and then see a great opportunity. Back to the coins in question I would guess that is someone's junk so I would probably stay clear. That's not always the case for groups of coins, but you can usually tell the potential pretty quick with decent pics. Plus if it's ebay and the seller has a lot of single listings for decent coins chances are you don't want to buy his lots.