Lets see how good you guys are...what is this coin?

[TrpnBils]

Let's see how good you guys are...what is this coin?

I dug this coin (what is essentially a blank piece of copper) last year at a site where I've dug several CW bullets, a couple of pre-CW buttons, and a handful of miscellaneous old iron. This is the only old coin i've come up with from there. It's been soaking in olive oil for 6 months or so, and I can barely make out an obverse now. Photographing it will be useless, so here's the best I've got in the sketch below. A couple of things:

• My first thought was large cent (American), but the design goes way closer to the edge of the coin than any large cent I have in my collection or what I can find in the Red Book.
• The bottom appears to be really close to the bottom rim of the coin, which makes me wonder where the heck the year would have been (looking at the sketch now, it seems like I didn't draw it close enough to the bottom edge, although I suppose what I'm seeing could be the year and the obverse design sort of merging together because of the wear, but there doesn't appear to be any kind of line or distinct separation of any kind).
• It's really thin compared to any large cent I've ever seen, which makes me wonder about a King George, as I've heard they are thinner (I don't have one to compare to)
• There is NOTHING visible on the reverse

Any thoughts? I'm stumped!

 

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[jimmyd1967]

I HAVE NO IDEA

 

[Dig-N-VA]

a penny?

Don't keep us in suspense

 

[TrpnBils]

lol...no I think you're missing the point. I have no idea what it is either, so I'm here looking for answers from real coin people!

 

[Iron Patch]

Young head British King George II Halfpenny Circa 1729-1739.

 

[TrpnBils]

I would literally have to change my underwear if there's any way I thought that's what it could be. I mean, the proximity to the rim REALLY looks right, but that's a hell of a stretch in terms of what I usually find (to put this in perspective, I've been at this for 5 years and just found my first non-modern coin the other day - a 1904 IHP). Wow though, that really looks right. Not to sound too dumb here, but do people actually find those in the US? I don't believe I've ever seen one on here.

Any other ideas? Also, I should clarify this is purely for my own curiosity. I have no illusion that this is worth anything at all monetarily.

 

[Iron Patch]

I would literally have to change my underwear if there's any way I thought that's what it could be. I mean, the proximity to the rim REALLY looks right, but that's a hell of a stretch in terms of what I usually find (to put this in perspective, I've been at this for 5 years and just found my first non-modern coin the other day - a 1904 IHP). Wow though, that really looks right. Not to sound too dumb here, but do people actually find those in the US? I don't believe I've ever seen one on here. Any other ideas? Also, I should clarify this is purely for my own curiosity. I have no illusion that this is worth anything at all monetarily.

What you have drawn and described is very clearly what I said it was. I have bought and sold these for over a decade. They are posted pretty much every week on here, and definitely possible to find in WV.

 

[TrpnBils]

That's very cool... I've never even heard of it. I showed my wife this and we can definitely see some of the detail on the back. We had been looking for a wreath or something before because we thought it was a large cent. This does explain though how the center of the reverse seemed to be more raised than everything around it. Thank you!

 

[Iron Patch]

That's very cool... I've never even heard of it. I showed my wife this and we can definitely see some of the detail on the back. We had been looking for a wreath or something before because we thought it was a large cent. This does explain though how the center of the reverse seemed to be more raised than everything around it. Thank you!

Here's on that shows more wear so looks a bit closer. It's a very distinctive bust and easily recognizable over other coppers. Your drawing is very good because I didn't even have to think about it. There's many counterfeits of these so the bust can change slightly, but usually it's fairly close.... and in this case it's a good thing because it made it easy to identify. If you look at the other side under a bright light and from many different angles you should be able to find a little part to match up and confirm... and then you will know 100% for sure. (But I would bet my detector on it)

 

[Mach1Pilot]

Jeff, You have to remember that the British/Virginians were in your area in the early 1700s... Not many but they were there. Very nice find!!

 

[TrpnBils]

I can still blame my ignorance of being new to the area for another year or two I think...lol. I'm just shocked I've never seen another one of these on here (now, having searched for it I see there are a lot, but that image posted above definitely isn't something I would have expected to be seeing or anything that would even been on my radar prior to this).

 

[TrpnBils]

they are very similar, arent they?

 

[bill from lachine]

Jeff,

IP knows his stuff when it comes to coins odds are his id is the right one....keep in mind you're in one of the original colonies so the old stuff is in your area big time....heck they've even found Spanish cobs and British hammered silver around where you are.

Most of the original circulating coins in early colonial times were European back in the day.

Regards + HH

Bill

That's very cool... I've never even heard of it. I showed my wife this and we can definitely see some of the detail on the back. We had been looking for a wreath or something before because we thought it was a large cent. This does explain though how the center of the reverse seemed to be more raised than everything around it. Thank you!

 

[TrpnBils]

I completely defer to others on this because I am not real knowledgeable about coins this old. This just highlights something I've said for awhile now in that I think a lot of Americans (myself included) get into the mindset of "America = 1776+" even though on some level we know there were obviously colonists here before then. I'm a reasonably well educated person, and I knew there were British here before 1776 and all that, but it still blows my mind that there are things still buried in the soil around here from before we were even an independent country. I see that stuff on here almost daily, but I'm not used to finding anything even remotely interesting with my detector...lol

 

[Mach1Pilot]

This will get you hooked, to the point where Indian heads won't get you excited if you aren't careful...

 

[Iron Patch]

I was shooting for a 1786, 1787 or 1788 Connecticut Copper. Frank

It is possible when there's so little left, especially going by a drawning... but because you would have to randomly select a smaller % of similar young head busts from a large amount of CT copper varieties, it's far less probable than the British George II copper.... which is more common to begin with. This is why I suggested to have a very close look at the other side because it only takes one difference to sway things one way or the other. But if the bust side is the good side, maybe it is a lost cause to further ID. Also to add to that, it's just my nature to not upgrade the ID of a find to a better find until I prove it, and if there really is absolutely nothing on the other side I would stick to George II Halfpenny if it was my find or anyone else had dug it. But it's still an old copper, so there will almost certainly be more!


All the above said, an arguement in favor would be there's a lot of years that seperate them, and if a 1730s coin find in your area seems crazy, but a 1780s maybe not quite as crazy, than maybe a CT could make more sense looking at it like that. But for me it seems if you get either, which are both pretty damn old it's just as easily a George II because there was so many around. Anyway, try and get one letter, because just one can solve it.

 

[Born2Late]

I think that Iron Patch is right. Most likely a George II halfpenny. It could, however, be a variation as he also said. Here is another "young head" (not the errant spelling GEOGIUS), an "Old Head", a contemporary counterfeit, and 3 Irish halfpennies (different heads).

Check the weight. Regal British halpennies were supposed to weigh 152.17 grains, though some are slightly lighter. If it weighs more than 140 grains, that's most likely what it is. Ground corrosion can cause them to be lighter.

Regal Irish halfpennies were supposed to weigh 135 grains, again, with some lighter.

Counterfeits generally weigh less than 120 grains, with some under a 100.

In my opinion, because of your location, a Connecticut copper is unlikely. However, a friend recently found one at an old site in Texas! Even though about 5 million CT coppers were minted, they were vastly outnumbered by George II and later, George III, halfpennies and counterfeits. 10 1/2 tons of them were shipped to Boston in 1750, for example.

So, I'm going with George II.

 

[TrpnBils]

Like you guys have said, I think just sheer numbers point to British HP. Regardless, it's only worth its melt value now anyway so I'm not too worried about it. It's damn old, regardless, and even before all of this yesterday the site where I found that was my target this morning anyway. I have about 8 hours to kill while my wife is at an estate auction so I'm going to be at that site at least half the day. Like I said though, never got any other old coins out of there, but we'll see! I got a DD coil off of Keith @ Fort Bedford Detectors last weekend, so maybe that will turn up something new. It rained last night too, which should help.

 

[Capt Nat]

Why only a sketch? Can you post a picture of the actual find?

 

[TrpnBils]

I tried taking pictures of it a couple of months ago to send to a friend and they were beyond useless... I'll try again and see what happens, but I can just about guarantee you won't see any detail.