Wood grain toning and nickels

[johnomerta]

From my understanding wood grain toning is mostly in cents because of the way the metals are mixed. However I have just bought a nice 1915 with what appears to be wood grain toning. Any experienced folks have an opinion like FRANK.

 

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[Jamesabroad]

That is a beautiful buff. I've seen the wood grain toning on some war nicks.

 

[huntsman53]

From the O.P's statement, I didn't know whether I should respond! However, I will take a stab at the answer. I believe that the coin was wiped with a cloth with some chemical on it and after many years of being stored away and due to some reaction, that chemical is showing itself on the coin in a woodgrain staining. It was either that or in a similar fashion, the chemical was wiped across the clear polypropylene film before the coin was sealed in the 2x2 and either the staining is on the polypropylene itself or transferred to the coin. However, if the 2x2 is fairly recent, then I believe the former is the case. If you zoom in the pic real big, you can see that the staining (from whatever chemical) is a smear as if applied with a cloth.


Frank

 

[johnomerta]

No Frank I respect your opinion. I I thought it was wood grain toning. How would I be able to tell if it was a chemical. I bought this at a local shop and if they got one over on me then I wont spent another dime there again. It was sold to me as WOOD GRAIN TONING. Furthermore I paid a lot for this coin when they had it over graded. Frank, what would you grade this as and retail price?

 

[cosmic]

Wood grained coins are usually copper or nickel-copper are from improper mixing of metals and produce the effect.. Also can be caused by wrinkled paper storage as old coin folders from chemicals in the paper .. There is also what is a bag-toned where the coin is stored in a corner of a cloth bag and acted upon by chemicals contained in the cloth..

 

[huntsman53]

No Frank I respect your opinion. I I thought it was wood grain toning. How would I be able to tell if it was a chemical. I bought this at a local shop and if they got one over on me then I wont spent another dime there again. It was sold to me as WOOD GRAIN TONING. Furthermore I paid a lot for this coin when they had it over graded. Frank, what would you grade this as and retail price?

Sorry, I just did not understand what you meant!

If I were you, I would put on a pair of cotton gloves and remove the coin from the 2x2 and see if the smears (what I believe is staining) is actually on the coin or it it is on the clear polypropylene and if it is toning or not. As stated, I seriously do not think that it is toning but I could be wrong. Although there appears to be very light rub on the Indian's hair above the braid and on the Buffalo's rear hip where the heavier fur starts, I believe that it is a good candidate for a MS-64 grade. Before a retail price could ever be determined, the issue as to whether the coin has toning or staining or whether it is on the clear polypropylene instead of the coin, needs to be resolved. As is, the price could be anywhere from $45 to $130. As can be seen from the pics, the coin overall has definitely toned to a yellowish tint which is normal for coins kept where there are smokers. The questions are, "what is the darker streaking or smears?", and "is it on the coin or not on the coin?". If it is not woodgrain toning and you overpaid for the coin based on this, then it might be best to return the coin for a refund. However, if the grade value outweighs what you paid for the coin, then you might want to keep it. As soon as you determine whether the darker streaking or smears is woodgrain toning or not, take and post pics of the coin while it is out of the 2x2 and we all can go from there.


Frank

 

[johnomerta]

 

[huntsman53]

After looking at the new pics of the coin out of the 2x2, I still stand behind the grade and what I stated above about the so-called Woodgrain toning! As has been stated previously by cosmic, Woodgrain toning is usually on Copper and Nickel-Copper coins due to an improper alloy mix. Actually, I am pretty sure that this effect only occurs on Copper coins and a very few Nickel-Copper coins due to the same reason. To have a similar toning on non-Copper coins and most of the Nickel-Copper composition coins that have been seen with it, IMHO is due mainly to unnatural or man-made causes. There are all sorts of chemicals and/or compositions that can and have been used by many unscrupulous Coin Dealers to create toning on coins that is unique and pleasing to some in order to fetch more money for their' coins. However, this toning is not natural, is fake and is done to bilk money from unsuspecting Collectors. With that being stated, what I see on your' 1915-P Buffalo Nickel suggests to me that it is not natural toning. If you are unable to make the determination as to whether the toning is natural or unnatural, then I would suggest taking the coin to another professional and well respected Coin Dealer for an opinion.


Frank

 

[johnomerta]

Thank you Frank. It appreciated it as always. I guess that this coin would come back as being unable to grade. Im disappointed and really dont know what to do at this point with the coin.

 

[cosmic]

Did you check the edge ?

 

[johnomerta]

What should I be looking for?

 

[huntsman53]

Thank you Frank. It appreciated it as always. I guess that this coin would come back as being unable to grade. Im disappointed and really dont know what to do at this point with the coin.

Why would you think that it would not grade? Since the coin definitely has not been cleaned, I see no reason why unnatural toning would disqualify the coin for grading! However, I could be wrong but I really believe the coin would receive a grade and it might receive a notation on the label stating that the coin's toning is unnatural or manipulated (I have seen notations before but can't remember what PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG, etc. uses on the label). It is possible they would ignore the toning, I really don't know.


Frank

 

[johnomerta]

Yes, I think unnatural toning will disqualify it from being graded. I really dont want to waste my money if it can't be graded.

 

[huntsman53]

Yes, I think unnatural toning will disqualify it from being graded. I really dont want to waste my money if it can't be graded.

Call PCGS, NGC, ANACS and ICG and ask, then you will know for sure.


Frank

 

[coinguy*matthew]

Yes, I think unnatural toning will disqualify it from being graded. I really dont want to waste my money if it can't be graded.

Not true all of the TPG's are guilty of grading unnaturally toned coins, it is however a gamble. I dont know if you have ever heard of the appalachian horde of jefferson nickels ill put the link below its an interesting read if that link doesnt work just let me know.

The Coinnection - Market Acceptable Rainbow Toned Jefferson

 

[huntsman53]

Not true all of the TPG's are guilty of grading unnaturally toned coins, it is however a gamble. I dont know if you have ever heard of the appalachian horde of jefferson nickels ill put the link below its an interesting read if that link doesnt work just let me know.

The Coinnection - Market Acceptable Rainbow Toned Jefferson

Thanks for posting the link! While the Jefferson War Nickels are absolutely gorgeous, for sure, such toning is questionable. I have owned hundreds and maybe even thousands of Jefferson War Nickels, some of which had some light toning but none that ever came close to the ones shown on the link. I purchase and resell a lot of toned Proof Jefferson Nickels and have owned some real beauties over the years. It never seems to amaze me how when a Proof Set is left in a hot environment too long and too many times, how the Proof coins turn out. I have owned and still own some real beauties that have Gun Metal Blue and Titanium Blue toning and some of these have the toning meld in with Magentas and dark Violet colors. I have a few Collectors that seek me out at Flea Markets just to check out my' Proof Jefferson Nickels and they usually buy everything I have. Even when some don't sell because they aren't toned enough, I don't worry, because they eventually tone into some gorgeous beauties.


Frank

 

[coinguy*matthew]

Thanks for posting the link! While the Jefferson War Nickels are absolutely gorgeous, for sure, such toning is questionable. I have owned hundreds and maybe even thousands of Jefferson War Nickels, some of which had some light toning but none that ever came close to the ones shown on the link. I purchase and resell a lot of toned Proof Jefferson Nickels and have owned some real beauties over the years. It never seems to amaze me how when a Proof Set is left in a hot environment too long and too many times, how the Proof coins turn out. I have owned and still own some real beauties that have Gun Metal Blue and Titanium Blue toning and some of these have the toning meld in with Magentas and dark Violet colors. I have a few Collectors that seek me out at Flea Markets just to check out my' Proof Jefferson Nickels and they usually buy everything I have. Even when some don't sell because they aren't toned enough, I don't worry, because they eventually tone into some gorgeous beauties.


Frank

I have some beauties myself Frank but these are accepted as natural because proof coins are much more susceptible to wild toning and have been documented by more than one collector.

 

[johnomerta]

You guys need to be a Charter member so I can buy some coins. Lol

 

[huntsman53]

You guys need to be a Charter member so I can buy some coins. Lol

LOL!! You are more correct than you know and besides, with TNnet, there are no PayPal and eBay fees!


Frank

 

[huntsman53]

I have some beauties myself Frank but these are accepted as natural because proof coins are much more susceptible to wild toning and have been documented by more than one collector.

View attachment 979079

That is a beauty for sure! I look back at some of the toned Jefferson's I have owned in the past and can kick myself for ever selling them. Most of these special one's were PR-69's and a few of them might have actually made PR-70.


Frank