1865 three cent silver

[huntsman53]

I agree that due to the improper cleaning, you will not get MS prices for the coin! In fact, prices are way down on these coins from what the PCGS and Numismedia Price Guides show for grades from VF-20 to XF-40 and it would be extremely difficult to determine what collectors would pay for it since no real high grade 1865 Three Cent Silver coins have been sold on eBay during the current record of closed auctions. Although errors on coins and especially Key Date coins is sometimes detrimental to the value of coins, you might try to highlight the errors on the coin as well as it having exceptional details and hope that will boost the interest of collectors. The coin has Die Clashing on both the Obverse and Reverse but it is more profound on the Obverse. It also was struck partially outside of the collar thus the railroad rim on the Obverse. One could hope it would fetch XF-40 prices if sold at auction but IMHO, it may only bring a VF-20 to VF-30 price.


Frank

P.S. No, the coin is not a Proof coin.

 

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[gunner45]

Thanks for the info, I agree on the grade due to the cleaning.
Here is a more realistic picture of what it actually looks like to the human eye and under 10x

The previous pictures were brutal under a bright light, these were taken outside with no editing.

 

[huntsman53]

Thanks for the info, I agree on the grade due to the cleaning.
Here is a more realistic picture of what it actually looks like to the human eye and under 10x
View attachment 1356363 View attachment 1356364
The previous pictures were brutal under a bright light, these were taken outside with no editing.

gunner,

Although the previous pictures were brutal, they are the ones that pointed me to your' coin possibly being an RPD (Re-Punched Date) or MPD (Mis-Placed Date) Variety. I don't have my' Cherrypicker's Guide to Rare Die Varieties in front of me as I do not know where it it is but I believe it is an RPD. If so, then this should be a plus when it comes to selling it as there are a lot of collectors out there that collect such varieties! Can you get a close up pic of the Date and post them?


Frank

 

[enamel7]

All of the rpd's known are on the nickel planchette Frank.

 

[Nitric]

Most of my three cent silvers are wavy or have been rolled flat. drilled, or whatever! It's tuff to find a flat one!

If it was mine? I would try to dull it or "tone" it. But I'm a hack! Still a great coin! You really don't see many of them, or in the past I didn't, some of the ones I have came from jewelry or bracelets, that type stuff...For some reason a lot of old coins ended up drilled and on bracelets. Must have been a fad at one time.

 

[jerseyben]

Looks like the coin was harshly cleaned or possibly whizzed. This year is known to have clash marks, which are very prominent on your coin. Unfortunately the cleaning has severely detracted from the eye appeal of this coin and will significantly affect it's value. Where did you get it?

 

[Nitric]

Looks like the coin was harshly cleaned or possibly whizzed. This year is known to have clash marks, which are very prominent on your coin. Unfortunately the cleaning has severely detracted from the eye appeal of this coin and will significantly affect it's value. Where did you get it?

I thought maybe buffed? I have a 67 IH that my great grandfather gave me! Like the idiot I am! I cleaned it with comet when I was about 11 or 12 years old. I scrubbed it until I got ever little bit of "dirt" off of it! I made it shiny!! I worked and worked at that thing. Makes me sick to look at it today! I'll have to post a pic of "what not to do with coins" I could probably fill a thread! I have others that I glued to cardboard for a school display, then later ripped them off the cardboard.

 

[huntsman53]

All of the rpd's known are on the nickel planchette Frank.

enamel,

You are correct but it is possible that it could be the first known RPD Variety found on a Silver 3 Cent Piece! Take a look at the "5" in the Date, there is some curved bars possibly from a Date digit underneath and inside of the "5". There also appears to be some extra material inside the "6" and "8" of the Date. Some good close-ups of the Date straight on and at angles will help determine if I am really seeing what I am seeing!


Frank

 

[cudamark]

Might just be from the clashed dies, but, a closeup photo of the date might help.

 

[enamel7]

Yes Frank, I agree better closeups are needed. I see what you're seeing.

 

[JerseyDigger19]

The 1865 is super rare but that's been badly scratched up. If I were a dealer, I'd pay about Fine money or $400 for that.

 

[gunner45]

Nothing afoul, I do deal in coins and I figured NGC or PCGS wouldn't grade it. I have a little shop in Bedford Pa, I love the hobby and try to make a little money at it as well.
It's funny, I went to a high end auction to buy some antique furniture and there were 5 coins in a box, high bidder had choice so obviously I was the high bidder!
I'll put some pics up of the date later on this evening.
I personally don't collect these or else it would stay in the safe.

 

[gunner45]

I was curious what everybody thought about the grade, I had a couple other dealers look at it and all had different opinions.

 

[huntsman53]

As others stated before, the coin has MS details but due to the scratches and improper cleaning, any MS grade is off the table. If it would be graded by a Third Party Grading Service, a Grader would probably start at MS-60 and downgrade the coin at least two grades due the above. It is hard to say if the Grader would downgrade it intermediate grades to an AU-50 or full grades EF-40 but I believe the later! Most collectors would not pay above VF-20 prices but if it is an new RPD Variety and also due to the Die Clashing, it's value would likely be bumped quite a bit.


Frank

 

[huntsman53]

Might just be from the clashed dies, but, a closeup photo of the date might help.

Now grant you that I might have missed something but as far as I can tell, the Die Clashing is in perfect alignment with no rotation whatsoever on both the Obverse and Reverse. If I am correct in this assessment, then there is nothing on the coin's Reverse that could clash in the area of the "6" and "5" of the Date and even if there was slight rotation and a Star was clashed on the Obverse in this area of the Date, the Stars do not have curved bars or features.


Frank

 

[gunner45]

It's no doubt the strongest clash I've seen on a coin like this, to see a coin of this caliber get cleaned so harshly is heartbreaking.
I agree with the downgrading from ms.
I'm going to try and put some pics of the date up

 

[gunner45]

Here's an up close picture, I believe there is a little "material" under the top bar on the 5 And in the 6 I
don't think it was a result of the reverse clash.

 

[huntsman53]

Here's an up close picture, I believe there is a little "material" under the top bar on the 5 And in the 6 I
don't think it was a result of the reverse clash. View attachment 1356667

Definitely not the result of the clashing. I could be wrong but I believe you have an 1865/65 Re-Punched Date Variety. Take some more pics of the coin and especially the Date and email them to Mike Diamond for his opinion. His email address is: [email protected] Hopefully he will respond before the auction ends for the coin. If it is a new 1865/65 Three Cent Silver RPD Variety and a Discovery coin/specimen at that, you would want the coin at least attributed and the variety recorded before selling it.


Frank

 

[Nitric]

Deleted most of post...was off topic....

Gunner45! You have no reason to "explain yourself"!

 

[jeff of pa]

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