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Thread: Using the Deus in Two Tones? Try it.

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  1. #31

    Oct 2016
    South St Paul, MN
    First Detector: Garret Ace 300 Main Detector: XP Deus Most Recent Detector: Fisher F75 SE
    648
    857 times
    Metal Detecting
    Honorable Mentions (1)
    OK, I do use Sifter. I think it is Fulltones by Gary's design but I use it in three tone mode.

  2. #32
    us
    Mar 2013
    Up state NY
    Xp Deus ,
    1,885
    1381 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Tedyoh I dug a few signals on Sunday in two tones they were iron that's why I didn't give it a fair shake .now after reading your post I see my errors.I always use iron volume and seldom use vdi .i will try it again at the same site.Thank you for your advice and time.if it pans out there may be a Christmas dinner invite for you.
    Tedyoh likes this.

  3. #33
    BPHent

    Dec 2016
    Savannah, GA
    XP Deus
    214
    76 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Ok, so you don't think setting the Iron Vol at 1 will unmask more non ferrous targets? Calabash Digger mentioned that he uses Iron Vol. 1 for his new Pitch Program. I like to use Frequency 8Hz, Reactivity 2.5, Silencer -1, Disc -6.4, and Audio Resp. 6, Sens. 93 for my 9" coil. I use Frequency 74Hz, Reactivity 2.5, Silencer -1, Disc. -6.4, and Audio Resp. 6, Sens. 83 for my HF Elliptical coil. Both coils I start with Deus Fast program. I do set the notch to get rid of big iron at Frequency 8Hz, but doesn't seem to work on the Frequency 74Hz. Also, I noticed that Iron Vol. setting can slightly affect depth. Maybe Calabash Digger could do a test in his garden showing the effects of changing the Iron Vol. on both the 9" regular coil and the HF Elliptical coils?
    Tedyoh likes this.

  4. #34

    Apr 2013
    N.E. Ohio
    XP DEUS, ATP
    1,065
    756 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Bharpring View Post
    Ok, so you don't think setting the Iron Vol at 1 will unmask more non ferrous targets? Calabash Digger mentioned that he uses Iron Vol. 1 for his new Pitch Program. I like to use Frequency 8Hz, Reactivity 2.5, Silencer -1, Disc -6.4, and Audio Resp. 6, Sens. 93 for my 9" coil. I use Frequency 74Hz, Reactivity 2.5, Silencer -1, Disc. -6.4, and Audio Resp. 6, Sens. 83 for my HF Elliptical coil. Both coils I start with Deus Fast program. I do set the notch to get rid of big iron at Frequency 8Hz, but doesn't seem to work on the Frequency 74Hz. Also, I noticed that Iron Vol. setting can slightly affect depth. Maybe Calabash Digger could do a test in his garden showing the effects of changing the Iron Vol. on both the 9" regular coil and the HF Elliptical coils?
    My opinion is iron volume is needed when using full tones, but I feel it's not needed when using 2 tones....i will be using these programs in heavy iron, after I've been through them in full tones, so I don't see the need for iron volume (in a 2 tone program) - as far as depth or the "edge of detection depth", that is really a non factor for me in heavy iron. I haven't messed with CD's pitch program much yet so we should leave that for him and wait for his opinion.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    calabash digger likes this.

  5. #35

    Sep 2005
    29
    45 times
    I have been using a similar program on an early 1800's site although I leave the iron volume on. I have found also that the crusty square nails will give no vdi or a squeaky high pitch with a 97 to 99 vdi depending on freq. .Occasionally a bent nail will give a good vdi. Good targets almost always give a decent vdi though the number may be off . If the target is very deep and good no vdi but a more sweet sounding signal.
    I alternate between full tones and the two tone program depending on my mood.
    Tedyoh and calabash digger like this.

  6. #36

    Apr 2013
    N.E. Ohio
    XP DEUS, ATP
    1,065
    756 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by DALPAL View Post
    I have been using a similar program on an early 1800's site although I leave the iron volume on. I have found also that the crusty square nails will give no vdi or a squeaky high pitch with a 97 to 99 vdi depending on freq. .Occasionally a bent nail will give a good vdi. Good targets almost always give a decent vdi though the number may be off . If the target is very deep and good no vdi but a more sweet sounding signal.
    I alternate between full tones and the two tone program depending on my mood.
    I see exactly the same thing

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    calabash digger likes this.

  7. #37
    BPHent

    Dec 2016
    Savannah, GA
    XP Deus
    214
    76 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    What happens if you notch out 97- 99 on the 3rd notch? Leave the first notch -6.4. Second notch at 0 - 10.
    calabash digger likes this.

  8. #38

    Apr 2013
    N.E. Ohio
    XP DEUS, ATP
    1,065
    756 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Bharpring View Post
    What happens if you notch out 97- 99 on the 3rd notch? Leave the first notch -6.4. Second notch at 0 - 10.
    That would probably help with nails and large iron, but, not that it's never happened to me, a shallow half or dollar could ring in that high, that's why I don't notch 97-99, plus deep quarters and dimes come in at that range (as CD has shown in 1 of his videos)

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    calabash digger likes this.

  9. #39
    BPHent

    Dec 2016
    Savannah, GA
    XP Deus
    214
    76 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    On higher frequencies maybe just notch 99 - 99 and at 8 HZ notch 97 - 99 and turn off ID Norm? ID Norm jacks up VDIs. Maybe Calabash could show a video testing 12" deep silver quarter and half dollar ID Norm vs no ID Norm at different frequencies? Would be interesting
    calabash digger likes this.

  10. #40

    Sep 2005
    29
    45 times
    For me the tone quality is telling. Notching at the high end changes the info given slightly.
    calabash digger likes this.

  11. #41
    BPHent

    Dec 2016
    Savannah, GA
    XP Deus
    214
    76 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Are you sacrificing any depth using Disc 10 with Pitch tone vs Full Tones with low (or no) Disc?

    Without the Disc 10 in Pitch, big iron sounds very good like non ferrous targets.
    calabash digger likes this.

  12. #42
    Charter Member
    us
    Jul 2015
    Near Ground Zero for Insanity
    XP Deus with 9 and 11" and 9" HF Coils, XP Wireless Pinpointer, Minelab GPX and Excal II, Garret ATX, Tek T2 Delta, and Omega. Fisher F75 LTD/DST, Whites MXT and MX Sport
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    You don't sacrifice depth with discrimination until you push it past 15 or 20.
    calabash digger likes this.
    "Aww c'mon guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings and double secret Version 4 variants nowadays."

  13. #43
    BPHent

    Dec 2016
    Savannah, GA
    XP Deus
    214
    76 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I went out today with both my 9" LF and HF Elliptical to test the pitch program. Dug some decent stuff, but dug a lot more iron than I usually do too. Do you find that the advantage of using pitch is better depth than Full Tones with the same settings?

  14. #44
    Charter Member
    us
    Jul 2015
    Near Ground Zero for Insanity
    XP Deus with 9 and 11" and 9" HF Coils, XP Wireless Pinpointer, Minelab GPX and Excal II, Garret ATX, Tek T2 Delta, and Omega. Fisher F75 LTD/DST, Whites MXT and MX Sport
    1,637
    1666 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tedyoh View Post
    I have two, 2 tone programs set up..... the first is Garys Sifter Program (you can find these settings on a google search which I think will take you to XP's web site) - I use this program in PA, reason being there is massive amounts of shale in this area and targets are rarely deeper than 5 - 6 inches, so when the iron and non ferrous are so close to the surface and close together, the shallow / mild settings in this program don't overload the iron in your headphones.

    The second is the XP factory "Deep" program - only things I edit in both programs are;

    Iron Volume off

    Tones - 2 tone

    Then to notch, go into expert and notch 0 - 25 (if you apply notch in the non expert field it will raise your discrimination to 25)

    Ground Balance - Tracking (then in expert I apply ground notch to 83 for hot rocks, if you don't have H.R.'s no need to apply G.N. unless you are falsing for another reason)

    Also I prefer 12 kHz over 18 kHz, you get a tad more depth in 12, I have the HF coil I will use and run these programs in 28 kHz in the Spring

    The stuff I found in PA I was using Garys Sifter, the stuff I found in my yard in OH, which were deeper, I was using Deep

    Again, you have to have tone + a VDI over 25 to dig, if not it'll be iron or nails......I'm not sure why these programs give tone but no VDI with notch set to 25, it's like the notch is only notching the VDI number and not the tone. I though notch would notch both tone and VDI number but I'm finding this is not the case.......that's why I'm saying it again (which goes what "normally" not to do with the Deus) - you must have tone and VDI over 25 to dig.

    Also one last point I'll say again, this is a relic program, you will dig way to much junk using these in a modern trash area or park.......unless you make tone + a VDI over 80 a dig target
    I am planning on experimenting with two tone this weekend and have a comment on the above - specifically when you say that to notch go into expert mode and notch 00 to 25 otherwise you will increase Discrimination instead, I think while it is true you need to set notch via expert mode so you can create a notch range of 00-25 (otherwise you are limited to a notch width of only 6 units (e.g., 00-06 or 06 to 12). So you need to set notch using the expert menu where you can expand the range and also set multiple (up to 3) notch sections if desired (though not in this case unless you want to notch the high vdi iron wraparound - I do not personally recommend that but depending on the situation, it might be warranted). The discrimination increased as a result of you trying to increase the vdi of of the first tone break point (not the notch point). Other than in full tones where the tone breakpoints are not adjustable, in multi-tones (i.e., 2, 3, 4, or 5 tones) the first tone break is always going to be based on where you have discrimination set. When you attempted to increase the first break when you were first attempting to program this mode, you were basically increasing discrimination as you discovered. So set disc where you want it and that will determine the ferrou-non-ferrous tone break and notch up to 25 (or whatever you chose) to get the non-ferrous 2nd tone you want and vdi. The other advantage to notching up to 25 vice setting disc up that high is that you don't affect depth as long as you keep disc at 10 or less (you can probably safely go to 15 without affecting depth but why add the additional processing). The other good thing about using notch is that it doesn't matter where the tone break occurs so you can set disc to whatever you like less than 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tedyoh View Post
    My opinion is iron volume is needed when using full tones, but I feel it's not needed when using 2 tones....i will be using these programs in heavy iron, after I've been through them in full tones, so I don't see the need for iron volume (in a 2 tone program) - as far as depth or the "edge of detection depth", that is really a non factor for me in heavy iron. I haven't messed with CD's pitch program much yet so we should leave that for him and wait for his opinion.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
    Even though there is menu selection for Iron Volume when using full tones, it basically does nothing. If you discriminate out iron in full tones you basically will not hear anything that is detected in the discrimination range regardless of how you have iron volume set. This is not the case when you are using multi-tones. The fact that iron volume can be adjusted in multi-tones means that you can set up this two-tone unmasking mode one of several ways. The way Ted has it set with a notch filter and no iron volume, or you can use iron volume (but I think you have to set the lower notch threshhold above the discrimination p,oint for this to work) or you can set up a two tone pitch program with iron volume and pitch like beep1971. Plan to try all of these various two-tone unmasking variations out to see what works for me. I think this can be a great tool to have in the kit and it is nice that multi-tones can be used in this manner. Thanks Ted, Calabash, and beep1971 from across the pond for pointing out this twist.
    Last edited by vferrari; Sep 14, 2017 at 12:55 AM.
    calabash digger, Tedyoh and Jeff H like this.
    "Aww c'mon guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings and double secret Version 4 variants nowadays."

  15. #45
    us
    Apr 2016
    Xp Deus ,aka sorex pro, I have owned ctx 30/30,racer2,nokta fors core,at pro,tesoro cortes.
    2,117
    3210 times
    Metal Detecting
    Silver coins at depth in my soil can read from 96-99 just depends on the depth actually have them on video doing so and how notch knocks them out. Also some use a high end tone tone break 97-99 and set it at 120 h so it calls those deep coins iron at that point. The test was shown in 7 kh with id norm off and on it doesn't matter when the targets get to a ceartain depth the deus will jack them up into that range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bharpring View Post
    On higher frequencies maybe just notch 99 - 99 and at 8 HZ notch 97 - 99 and turn off ID Norm? ID Norm jacks up VDIs. Maybe Calabash could show a video testing 12" deep silver quarter and half dollar ID Norm vs no ID Norm at different frequencies? Would be interesting
    Tedyoh and Jeff H like this.
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    May God bless you.

 

 
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