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Thread: HF 9" vs LF 9" separation

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  1. #1

    Jun 2016
    3
    2 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    HF 9" vs LF 9" separation

    Hello,

    I have the LF 9", and wondered if the HF version would benefit me. I hunt in areas of high minerals, flat iron, and many many nails. Add to that modern trash, and it makes for a fun hunt.

    Would I gain anything from the 9" HF?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Charter Member
    us
    Jul 2015
    Near Ground Zero for Insanity
    XP Deus with 9 and 11" and 9" HF Coils, XP Wireless Pinpointer, Minelab GPX and Excal II, Garret ATX, Tek T2 Delta, and Omega. Fisher F75 LTD/DST, Whites MXT and MX Sport
    1,640
    1668 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    You would gain some separation by running it at the higher frequencies vs. the LF because the higher frequencies can resolve targets better. The tradeoff being that the higher freq will hit harder on mid conductors and you may therefore suffer some slight depth loss on high conductors. Since the coil dimensions are essentially the same between the two coils, you will not see appreciably greater separation when running at similar frequencies. (i.e., 12 khz for the lf and 13-14 khz for the hf). But, I have found the hf coil seems to run more stable than my older lf coil. The 9" hf coil is my "standard" all purpose coil now.

    If the trash densityis super high, you might be better served with the hf elliptical, it is like a laser beam, and you sacrifice very little in depth vs. the 9" round.

    Finally, the program you use can make a world of difference in how effective you are unmasking non-ferrous keepers in iron.
    Last edited by vferrari; Nov 13, 2017 at 08:09 PM.
    calabash digger likes this.
    "Aww c'mon guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings and double secret Version 4 variants nowadays."

  3. #3
    Charter Member
    us
    Aug 2013
    OC
    XP Deus Sovereign GT
    4,853
    3599 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Welcome to the forum ystfrk. I have and use the elliptical HF coil and find it a quiet, stable coil. I'm purchasing the 9" HF coil because they are that good. I hunt primarily at the beach. Good luck!
    calabash digger likes this.

  4. #4
    us
    Apr 2016
    Xp Deus ,aka sorex pro, I have owned ctx 30/30,racer2,nokta fors core,at pro,tesoro cortes.
    2,119
    3215 times
    Metal Detecting
    welcome
    1781 Half reale, Spanish cob, 1802 1 Real
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    6lb canon ball
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    XP deus CTX 30/30
    May God bless you.

  5. #5
    us
    Low and Slow

    Sep 2017
    Southwest Washington
    XP DEUS Garrett AT Pro with 4” Sniper & 5x8 Whites DFX Tesoro Golden ÁMax
    178
    152 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Welcome !
    Wayne Gretzky: "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."

  6. #6

    Jun 2016
    3
    2 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Thanks all!

    I was going to pick up the elliptical, but then I watched Calabash's separation video; now I'm stumped!
    RustyGold likes this.

  7. #7
    us
    Apr 2012
    Western New York
    Compass Coin Magnum, Garrett GTP1350, Minelab CTX 3030, XP Deus, Nokta Impact
    153
    117 times
    Metal Detecting
    not to highjack this thread but mr. vferrari what would be a good program to use for general all around farm house relic hunting with that 9 inch HF coil? i know there are many variables but maybe a general program to start with. thanks... ��


    Quote Originally Posted by vferrari View Post
    You would gain some separation by running it at the higher frequencies vs. the LF because the higher frequencies can resolve targets better. The tradeoff being that the higher freq will hit harder on mid conductors and you may therefore suffer some slight depth loss on high conductors. Since the coil dimensions are essentially the same between the two coils, you will not see appreciably greater separation when running at similar frequencies. (i.e., 12 khz for the lf and 13-14 khz for the hf). But, I have found the hf coil seems to run more stable than my older lf coil. The 9" hf coil is my "standard" all purpose coil now.

    If the trash densityis super high, you might be better served with the hf elliptical, it is like a laser beam, and you sacrifice very little in depth vs. the 9" round.

    Finally, the program you use can make a world of difference in how effective you are unmasking non-ferrous keepers in iron.

  8. #8
    Charter Member
    us
    Jul 2015
    Near Ground Zero for Insanity
    XP Deus with 9 and 11" and 9" HF Coils, XP Wireless Pinpointer, Minelab GPX and Excal II, Garret ATX, Tek T2 Delta, and Omega. Fisher F75 LTD/DST, Whites MXT and MX Sport
    1,640
    1668 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    If that farmhouse has A LOT of iron, I would start out with a multi-tone program that has discrimination (set at about 8 to 10). Depending on what you are looking for set up a 4 or 5 tone program at about 12 khz and see if you can cherry pick some non-ferrous targets out of the iron, multitone has the advantage that when you apply some discrimination, you can still get iron volume yet you are less susceptible to iron down-averaging the Target and Tone ID unlike in Full Tones.

    If you want to try to unmask targets, you can use pitch mode with discrimination at 10 and iron volume at 3 and then set the pitch frequency to your liking (This is basically like a two-tone program with the first tone being iron volume buzz and the second tone being the pitch for anything above the disc setting). A non-ferrous target masked by a ferrous target will intermittently scream out at you as you sweep and change your sweep angle while you hear the iron volume buzz of the masking iron.

    Finally, I would take on the site with full tones and minimal discrimination and see what pops up.

    Multitone (4 to 5 tones) set the breakpoints consistent with the VDI's of the targets you want to group together at the operating frequency of interest (e.g., For 12 khz and Disc = 10; Tone 1 is Discriminated Iron up to VDI of 10, Tone 2 is low conductive trash like foil up to about the high 40's, Tone 3 is Mid-Conductors like Gold, Nickels, Brass, and Aluminum Pull Tabs up to about the low 60's, Tone 4 are small coppers, lead bullets, and bigger aluminum pieces up to the low 80's, and Tone 5 is high conductors up to 99. Set Sensitivity to around 90 and lower or raise as necessary to eliminate chattiness due to EMI. Set Tx Power = 2 (lower to 1 if heavily mineralized as indicated by the right side bargraph), Set Reactivity to 2 (2.5 to 3 if really trashy and you need even more separation, but note that target blip duration will be reduced which effectively results in higher likelihood of passing over deep targets), Set Silencer to -1 or 0, Set Iron Volume to 3, Audio Response to 4 and try GB in tracking mode or manually set GB to the ground index reading within +/- 3 points.

    You can use the above program as your unmasker by simply going into the Disc expert menu and shifting tones to "pitch"

    You can then set up a full tones program by copying the above program, setting the disc as desired (minimal -6.4 to 0) and shifting the tones to Full Tones. Practically all the other settings are the same. You don't need to set up tone breaks for full tones.

    I generally don't recommend any notching, but some like to notch the iron wraparound region on the lf coils (for all frequencies except 18 khz) at 97-99.

    Remember to turn ID NORM "Off" (default is on) in the Profile menu BEFORE you start to set up your tone breaks or all your target ID's will be normalized to 18 khz regardless of operating frequency which tends to jam all the higher conductor Target ID's up near the high end.

    If EMI is an issue with 12 khz, set up an "equivalent" 8 khz program with tone breakes slightly lowered from what I mention above to account for the lower frequency shift of the target ID's.

    And, in general, in a high iron environment, I would shy away from 4 khz as that frequency locks Tx power at 3, which could be problematic in high iron, high mineralized soil.

    That is probably a good starting point.
    Last edited by vferrari; Nov 13, 2017 at 10:08 PM.
    Jeff H and ystfrk like this.
    "Aww c'mon guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings and double secret Version 4 variants nowadays."

  9. #9
    Charter Member
    us
    Aug 2013
    OC
    XP Deus Sovereign GT
    4,853
    3599 times
    Beach and Shallow Water Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by ystfrk View Post
    Thanks all!

    I was going to pick up the elliptical, but then I watched Calabash's separation video; now I'm stumped!
    Calabash' video on the 9" round HF coil is exactly why I'm adding that coil to my Deus.

  10. #10
    Charter Member
    us
    Sep 2005
    LaFayette, GA
    Minelab CTX 3030, Whites V3i, XP Deus
    551
    292 times
    Relic Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by vferrari View Post
    The tradeoff being that the higher freq will hit harder on mid conductors and you may therefore suffer some slight depth loss on high conductors. Finally, the program you use can make a world of difference in how effective you are unmasking non-ferrous keepers in iron.
    It is a relic hunting coin, hits buttons and bullets like silver!

    I wasn't impressed my first time out with my HF coil, last time out, I'm impressed.

    Very impressed.

  11. #11
    Charter Member
    us
    Jul 2015
    Near Ground Zero for Insanity
    XP Deus with 9 and 11" and 9" HF Coils, XP Wireless Pinpointer, Minelab GPX and Excal II, Garret ATX, Tek T2 Delta, and Omega. Fisher F75 LTD/DST, Whites MXT and MX Sport
    1,640
    1668 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Yep, mid-conductor magnet = buttons and brass for the relic hunters, oh yeah!
    "Aww c'mon guys, it's so simple. Maybe you need a refresher course. It's all ball bearings and double secret Version 4 variants nowadays."

  12. #12

    Jul 2012
    Tn
    3-Xp Deus, Minelab CTX, Minelab XS Explorer, Rutus Alter 71, Deep tech Warrior, Nokta Impact, Minelab Equinox preordered
    264
    176 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    So far when testing round hf coil to the 9" LF coil, as far as separation and depth combined,,,round HF coil beats or ties the 9" LF coil.
    And this is running the round HF coil at lowest freq band of 14.4khz.

    There is a thread posted by me below talking about this comparison.

    As far as giving nonferrous tone on nonferrous objects,,,IMO the round HF coil obsolete the 9" LF coil.
    There are instances however where the 9" LF coil has ID advantage for conductivity of buried targets over the round HF coil.
    ystfrk likes this.

 

 

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