HF 9" vs LF 9" separation

[ystfrk]

Hello,

I have the LF 9", and wondered if the HF version would benefit me. I hunt in areas of high minerals, flat iron, and many many nails. Add to that modern trash, and it makes for a fun hunt.

Would I gain anything from the 9" HF?

Thanks!

 

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[vferrari]

You would gain some separation by running it at the higher frequencies vs. the LF because the higher frequencies can resolve targets better. The tradeoff being that the higher freq will hit harder on mid conductors and you may therefore suffer some slight depth loss on high conductors. Since the coil dimensions are essentially the same between the two coils, you will not see appreciably greater separation when running at similar frequencies. (i.e., 12 khz for the lf and 13-14 khz for the hf). But, I have found the hf coil seems to run more stable than my older lf coil. The 9" hf coil is my "standard" all purpose coil now.

If the trash densityis super high, you might be better served with the hf elliptical, it is like a laser beam, and you sacrifice very little in depth vs. the 9" round.

Finally, the program you use can make a world of difference in how effective you are unmasking non-ferrous keepers in iron.

 

[RustyGold]

Welcome to the forum ystfrk. I have and use the elliptical HF coil and find it a quiet, stable coil. I'm purchasing the 9" HF coil because they are that good. I hunt primarily at the beach. Good luck!

 

[Calabash Digger]

welcome

 

[WaterScoop]

Welcome !

 

[ystfrk]

Thanks all!

I was going to pick up the elliptical, but then I watched Calabash's separation video; now I'm stumped!

 

[gene the machine]

not to highjack this thread but mr. vferrari what would be a good program to use for general all around farm house relic hunting with that 9 inch HF coil? i know there are many variables but maybe a general program to start with. thanks... ��

You would gain some separation by running it at the higher frequencies vs. the LF because the higher frequencies can resolve targets better. The tradeoff being that the higher freq will hit harder on mid conductors and you may therefore suffer some slight depth loss on high conductors. Since the coil dimensions are essentially the same between the two coils, you will not see appreciably greater separation when running at similar frequencies. (i.e., 12 khz for the lf and 13-14 khz for the hf). But, I have found the hf coil seems to run more stable than my older lf coil. The 9" hf coil is my "standard" all purpose coil now.

If the trash densityis super high, you might be better served with the hf elliptical, it is like a laser beam, and you sacrifice very little in depth vs. the 9" round.

Finally, the program you use can make a world of difference in how effective you are unmasking non-ferrous keepers in iron.

 

[vferrari]

If that farmhouse has A LOT of iron, I would start out with a multi-tone program that has discrimination (set at about 8 to 10). Depending on what you are looking for set up a 4 or 5 tone program at about 12 khz and see if you can cherry pick some non-ferrous targets out of the iron, multitone has the advantage that when you apply some discrimination, you can still get iron volume yet you are less susceptible to iron down-averaging the Target and Tone ID unlike in Full Tones.

If you want to try to unmask targets, you can use pitch mode with discrimination at 10 and iron volume at 3 and then set the pitch frequency to your liking (This is basically like a two-tone program with the first tone being iron volume buzz and the second tone being the pitch for anything above the disc setting). A non-ferrous target masked by a ferrous target will intermittently scream out at you as you sweep and change your sweep angle while you hear the iron volume buzz of the masking iron.

Finally, I would take on the site with full tones and minimal discrimination and see what pops up.

Multitone (4 to 5 tones) set the breakpoints consistent with the VDI's of the targets you want to group together at the operating frequency of interest (e.g., For 12 khz and Disc = 10; Tone 1 is Discriminated Iron up to VDI of 10, Tone 2 is low conductive trash like foil up to about the high 40's, Tone 3 is Mid-Conductors like Gold, Nickels, Brass, and Aluminum Pull Tabs up to about the low 60's, Tone 4 are small coppers, lead bullets, and bigger aluminum pieces up to the low 80's, and Tone 5 is high conductors up to 99. Set Sensitivity to around 90 and lower or raise as necessary to eliminate chattiness due to EMI. Set Tx Power = 2 (lower to 1 if heavily mineralized as indicated by the right side bargraph), Set Reactivity to 2 (2.5 to 3 if really trashy and you need even more separation, but note that target blip duration will be reduced which effectively results in higher likelihood of passing over deep targets), Set Silencer to -1 or 0, Set Iron Volume to 3, Audio Response to 4 and try GB in tracking mode or manually set GB to the ground index reading within +/- 3 points.

You can use the above program as your unmasker by simply going into the Disc expert menu and shifting tones to "pitch"

You can then set up a full tones program by copying the above program, setting the disc as desired (minimal -6.4 to 0) and shifting the tones to Full Tones. Practically all the other settings are the same. You don't need to set up tone breaks for full tones.

I generally don't recommend any notching, but some like to notch the iron wraparound region on the lf coils (for all frequencies except 18 khz) at 97-99.

Remember to turn ID NORM "Off" (default is on) in the Profile menu BEFORE you start to set up your tone breaks or all your target ID's will be normalized to 18 khz regardless of operating frequency which tends to jam all the higher conductor Target ID's up near the high end.

If EMI is an issue with 12 khz, set up an "equivalent" 8 khz program with tone breakes slightly lowered from what I mention above to account for the lower frequency shift of the target ID's.

And, in general, in a high iron environment, I would shy away from 4 khz as that frequency locks Tx power at 3, which could be problematic in high iron, high mineralized soil.

That is probably a good starting point.

 

[RustyGold]

Thanks all!

I was going to pick up the elliptical, but then I watched Calabash's separation video; now I'm stumped!

Calabash' video on the 9" round HF coil is exactly why I'm adding that coil to my Deus.

 

[gsxraddict]

The tradeoff being that the higher freq will hit harder on mid conductors and you may therefore suffer some slight depth loss on high conductors. Finally, the program you use can make a world of difference in how effective you are unmasking non-ferrous keepers in iron.

It is a relic hunting coin, hits buttons and bullets like silver!

I wasn't impressed my first time out with my HF coil, last time out, I'm impressed.

Very impressed.

 

[vferrari]

Yep, mid-conductor magnet = buttons and brass for the relic hunters, oh yeah!

 

[tnsharpshooter]

So far when testing round hf coil to the 9" LF coil, as far as separation and depth combined,,,round HF coil beats or ties the 9" LF coil.
And this is running the round HF coil at lowest freq band of 14.4khz.

There is a thread posted by me below talking about this comparison.

As far as giving nonferrous tone on nonferrous objects,,,IMO the round HF coil obsolete the 9" LF coil.
There are instances however where the 9" LF coil has ID advantage for conductivity of buried targets over the round HF coil.