Advice from the forum

[1gadawgsfan]

I am new to this machine so I think I am more confused now. I am really struggling with my machine and I am not convinced it is the machine I thought,
however after reading, it is probably me and not being educated enough about it.
First of all I did not know there were so many coil options, I guess I need to figure out what coils I have and go from there. This may sound crazy but is there a way to know what coils I have, I looked on them and it does not have any distinguishing numbers. I can say they are black. I have about 8 hours on the machine but I have had it for about 1 1/2 years
I see the 2 names mentioned as the go to fellows on here for Deus questions, Vferrari and Calabash digger. maybe 1 of them or someone else can help me figure all this out.
I have went out 2 times in the last couple weeks and both times I got embarresed by a friend using Garrett At Pro and another using Equinox 800. I am using the 3.2 version software. I am hunting civil war sites 95% of the time, if I find coins or jewelry then that is a bonus find for me, however I am not finding much of anything.LOL
I also read the sticky section for suggested programs but I am not sure if the coils I have matters with these.
I am searching/looking for advice for 2 different type of suggestions/programs for civil war relic sites. I would like to have a program for depth and one for trashy/iron.
The Garrett At pro was picking up bullets I could not hear until he removed some of the soil, needless to say I was very disappointed, knowing what I probably missed, the Equinox did the same thing on depth and also in the trashy/iron areas.
As I said above I am sure it is Me not having my machine set up properly.
we are going out tomorrow, I would love the chance to redeem myself with these 2 friends that laughed me all the way back to the truck. LOL
Thank you for your time and your input

 

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[1gadawgsfan]

I just saw a response to another post and it seems I have the original black LF coils. if this helps trying to figure out which way I need to go. Thank you Vferarri for the input about my coils.

 

[vferrari]

How much detecting experience do you have and on what machines? Check out the expanded response in the other thread including the link. After I know what experience you have I can certainly help you to set up your machine for relic hunting because that is what I mainly do with the Deus.

 

[1gadawgsfan]

I hunted years ago, with mainly Fisher machines, 1236,1266,1270 and the Tosoro silver saber u max.
I did buy an At pro a couple years ago and used it for about a year and then bought the Deus. I have about 8 hours with it, I thought I was pretty decent until the last 8 hours of hunting.LOL
Mostly hunting in the woods until there is a spot where they start grading land.

 

[vferrari]

Ok great. The deal is those guys are still going to probably going to have a big advantage over you, but only because they really know their machines. After 8 hours on any machine, the folks who have the most experience on whatever machine are going to have an advantage over the 8 hour guy, even if he has good detecting experience and the machine has superior features like the Deus. But I can at least give you some pointers and a simplified approach to give you a fighting chance to snag some relics in the woods. Also, when you do get really proficient with the Deus you can and will be able to out-perform the AT Pro and even the 800 under many conditions. I have owned an AT Pro (no longer) and now have 100's of hours on Deus and also own an Equinox (also a lot of swing hours but fewer than Deus - the only machine that comes close to Deus in performance) and a Fisher F75, and Whites MXT all with progressively fewer swing hours than the Deus but great relic machines nevertheless, so I know what I am talking about.

OK - First off, it would be best if you upgraded the machine to Version 5.1 because even though it is not required to be used with the old coils, it does have some new features that are beneficial to relic hunting, especially with respect to ground balance tracking and compatibility with the newer coils which you might want to consider investing in down the line. However, I do not want you to do a software upgrade before tomorrow's hunt because that is something you will want to do when you have time on your hands as it is a little complex and you have to re-load all your custom programs. So think about doing that down the road, perhaps if you decide to get a new coil.

Moving on: With the old coil you have 4 choices of frequencies - 4 khz, 8 khz, 12 khz, and 18 khz.

Higher frequencies are able to hit mid-conductive targets like brass and lead relics better than the lower frequencies. So for your relic hunt tomorrow I want you focus on 12 and 18 khz but I want you to set up custom programs at each frequency (4, 8, 12, and 18 khz) because the lower frequencies will give you more depth, especially for high conductors like copper and silver, even if they don't hit as hard on the mid-conductive targets at depth.

Use the Deus Fast program as your base program for your custom programs. PM me if you need more information on how to set up and save custom programs.

Just save the Deus Fast Program 4 times using the default settings, except change Reactivity to 2 and with the only difference between the four programs is the frequency (save one at 4 khz, one at 8 khz, one at 12 khz, and one at 18 khz).

The Default Settings will be:

Disc = 6.8
Tones = 3 (breakpoints are 6.8 and 76 - all relics except minie balls will likely ring up as a mid tone, iron will ring up as a low tone. High tones will be possibly a minie ball or coin or large target).
Sensitivity = 90 (only lower this if necessary if the machine is chatty or if in thick iron, no need to raise it higher as it will not give you much more depth and may only increase noise)
Tx Power = 2
Frequency = DEPENDS (18 KHZ is the default)
Reactivity = 2 (Changed from the Default of 3 - this will give you more depth)
Silencer = -1 (off) > this is important because the silencer can cause masking of non-ferrous targets. It should be set to -1 (off) or no higher than 0.
Iron Volume = 3 (even though you are using discrimination, you want to hear the iron because of iron relics but also thick iron tones tell you that you may be on top of an old building foundation or campsite, the discrimination helps to keep ferrous targets from down averaging the Target ID (TID) of non-ferrous targets).
Audio Response = 4 (you can bump this up to 5 if deep targets sound too faint)

Now, save one more custom program. Deus fast again, but with the following changes, change tones from 3 tones to pitch and leave reactivity at 3. The higher reactivity setting will give you slightly less depth but better target separation in trash. This is your thick iron program. Your detector will grunt a low tone for any iron below the discrimination point and with give you a variable tone pitch for non-ferrous that will increase in intensity and pitch the shallower or larger the target is. Try this out on some test targets so you can get used to it. This is basically like a two-tone setup where you are trying to just ferret out non-ferrous from ferrous in thick iron. You can use it under any condition but you will be reliant on the display for target ID. You can also save another "pitch" program at another frequency if you want. If the iron is really thick and overloading your coil, try lowering sensitivity into the mid 80's and that may allow some shallow masked non-ferrous targets to pop out of the muck.

Regarding Target ID's: Note that the default setting is target ID's will vary with frequency. For example a minie ball may ring up as follows: 4 khz = 58, 8khz = 71, 12 khz= 77, 18 khz = 82. Similarly, brass buttons will ring up lower anywhere from the mid-40's at 4 khz to the high 70's at 18 khz. If you want to get sophisticated, you can change the default breakpoints for the 3 tones to different high tone breakpoints depending on frequency or you can get even more fancy and go to 4 or 5 tones. But the best relic hunter I know who uses the Deus only uses the default 3 tones Deus fast program with all the defaults I mentioned above. You can also change the audio frequencies of the individual tones to your liking and also the maximum frequency of the pitch tone (I like to use the highest frequency 603 hz). For the three tones I would recommend 120 hz, 644 hz, and 993 hz audio tones, if you know how to change them, otherwise, just use the defaults (can't remember what they are).

Note that there is a setting in the Profile submenu of the Configuration menu that is called "ID Norm". The default setting for ID Norm is off. If you change it to "ON" then all target ID's will be normalized to what they would be at 18 khz regardless of your frequency setting. I like to have it off because you can use that to "check" for Iron because Iron might ring up as a high tone (false) but its target ID will typically not properly follow frequency. For example if you have iron falsing in the 90's at 12 khz, you would expect it to lower when lower frequency to 4 khz but it will often not change at all or do the opposite. You can then make a decision as to whether to dig it. That is why I name my 4 khz program as "Iron CHK".

Match the manual ground balance setting to the ground balance displayed for your ground and you will be good to go. I do not recommend using Ground Balance tracking with Ver 3.2 software.

You can navigate to each of your custom programs simply using the +/- pushbuttons. This allows you to interrogate targets with different frequencies once you acquire them to see what is going on by just hitting plus/minus while you swing the coil.

I would recommend hunting in 12 or 18 khz. If you hit a repeatable target, dig it. If you can barely hear it, try using a different frequency to see if the target signal or visual ID becomes more stable. You can even try the pitch program. Also, circle the target a little to see if you can get a repeatable tone. When relic hunting I basically dig all non-ferrous and most ferrous if for nothing else to get it out of the way but also because there are plenty of cool iron relics (swords, bayonets, rifle parts, buckles, spurs, and other horse tack).

Learn to use the upside down "horseshoe" display on the left hand side. The left side of the horseshoe indicates a ferrous target, right side non ferrous. Both sides lit up then the target is mixed or there are multiple ferrous and non-ferrous targets under the coil. If the right side lights up all black the target is strong and shallow if it is half way lit up, then about 6" deep roughly, if it barely tics black then 10 to 12 inches deep. The center indicator in the horseshoe is the "overload" indicator (e.g., actual shallow horseshoe or aluminum can). Finally, on Deus really deep detectable targets may still register a tone even if they don't display a target ID. Look at the horseshoe display to see if it is a deep target but with no number showing. If you can get the signal to repeat even without a target ID, dig it!

There are A LOT more pointers but hard to do with a single post. For example, the Gold Field program is the Deus ALL METAL program but it is a completely different animal than the tone programs (perhaps more similar to the pitch program above, but still very different) but it can come in useful in thick iron or highly mineralized ground.

Also, the new coils operate at and above 25 - 28 khz which I find to be an ideal frequency for relic hunting. My favorite coil overall is the white round 9" HF coil and my relic hunting Deus buddy has used the 9.5" HF elliptical to snag several banner finds. The X35 coils are also great because they can operate as high as 24 khz but can also operate at low frequencies for deep silver. Think about a coil upgrade down the road should you choose to keep the Deus.

PM me if you have more questions. HTH.

 

[Relicgrubber]

To the OP...

I knew I wanted the Deus for my next machine so before purchasing it I bought and read Andy Sabisch book on the Deus. After purchasing my Deus I read it again only this time I followed along with the controller in hand replicating examples contained in the book. Did my air test as well as my test garden. I have never had any mistrust in my Dues signals because I fully understood what it was telling me. Hope this bit of advice helps...

 

[secondstar]

1gadawgsfan, you and I are in the same boat. I came from the AT Pro over to the XP Deus this past year as well. To be honest, I didn't like the XP Deus at first. I missed the "friendly" sounds that my AT Pro made and I found the XP Deus to sound brash if you will. I purchased a copy of Andy's book, and then spent a ton of time using the builtin basic and fast programs. Once I understood what the XP Deus was telling me, based on the sounds that it made, and after reading the book and posting questions on here, I then started to create custom programs based on both the builtin basic and fast programs. I am a coin shooter primarily, so I really enjoy using a 4 tone program. 3 tone would suffice, but I just had to create a 993 Hz tone break for silver dime TID's and above! I am also a huge fan of running with ID Norm = Off so that I can scrutinize suspicious high TDI targets by toggling between my 12K, 8K, and 4K base programs.

I now have many, many hours logged on my XP Deus but would still only consider myself to be an intermediate user. I need many more hours on the machine and need to do some additional studying / learning before I can become an advanced user. I gotta tell you, at this point I absolutely love the XP Deus because it can be customized to meet one's hunting style, because it is completely wireless, and because it is super light-weight. Having also come from the AT Pro, I would encourage you to keep trying with the XP Deus. Log the hours, it's totally worth it! The folks out here on the forums are very friendly and extremely helpful so don't be afraid to ask questions!

Mike

 

[HuntinDog]

Some very good advice here...
One thing I would do (and did) is dig it all and get usued to what the tones are for what you are looking for.
Stick to one set of tones and don't switch it up... this just confuses the brain.
Once your brain gets used to the sounds of good targets, then start to adjust.
The best of luck to you, with a bit of swing time you will get it..

 

[dirtlooter]

don't get discouraged, it is a very good machine and a very deep machine when properly set up. a lot of people new to the machine immediately try to make their own custom programs before they even understand it in the first place (self included). you have a very versatile machine that can be several machines in one when set up properly. My 1st programs that I used for a year before I realized that I had out of ignorance, made then into shallow programs. I did a lot of air testing in the house to help prove to myself many things. a real test garden is the best. You have the ability to set it up tone wise to what works bets for you. most people use the Fast program as a starting point with their custom programs and fine tune it to fit their needs for their style of hunting. Calabash uses his custom pitch program for relic hunting and still finds coins etc. my wife uses my LF coil like yours and kills it. She has no remote so she never sees the numbers, just tone hunts and digs any repeatable targets. The are many instructional videos out there, even ones made by Deus to help you understand it better. if you even go back into the numerous posts on this forum, you will find numerous set ups or programs that some are very successful with. but whatever you use, use it for a while to learn it. then after you lean it better, you can then fine tune it even more to your liking. when set up correctly, you will have the abilities of several different machines in one. As I found out, one or two little but very important details can really affect the performance. My wife had been using my AT GOLD as her machine but once she got to using the Deus, she ain't going back! The newer updates even for your black LF coil can make it perform even better. when you finally get it set up right, you will be the one with the big grin.

 

[1gadawgsfan]

WOW, this is AMAZING!!!!

vferrari= I just returned home and looked at this. This response is stunning, and I wish I could shake your hand in person. I am going to read and reread your response to make sure I have it down. I will not upgrade until I try this, (as you suggested). I am truly overwhelmed by your response and consideration in helping me, and so very thankful.
After a few reads I may have a couple questions, so you may have a pm for clarification if needed.
I am so excited to get out tomorrow and try these settings, it is like having a brand new machine to try out. I am literally almost to the point of selling the Deus, but I think I have a new found energy about this. YOUR AWESOME!!

relicgrubber= thank you also for your response as well, I did order Andy's book yesterday, so I am ready to get it an start reading.

secondstar= I also am kinda missing the At pro because of it's ease of use and tones, I do still have it but I am not using it until I have the Deus figured out and by that time it sounds like I will not want to use it.

huntindog= I thank you for the advice with the tones, not sure which I should be using at this point, I will be digging most targets until I become more familiar for sure.

dirtlooter= well, at this point I do understand what your saying, however I can not say that. But I am not giving up and hopefully soon I will be able to respond to someone needing help as well. Thank you for the words of encouragement and the advice

Thank you again to all of you

 

[smokeythecat]

You will like the Deus much more than the AT Pro after awhile. V and I dig together some. I would keep it simple at first. I also read the book. Hate to admit it but it gave me a headache and I'm not good on the electronic math on these machines, any of them.

I use the 9" elliptical HF coil exclusively and crank that puppy to 74khz. With what you have, I would first go with the highest frequency you can. Those pesky Civil War buttons hide in that range.

So...Use Deus Fast, highest frequency you have, tracking balance and DIG IT!

I was experimenting with some tweaks today, but settled back in for the factory presets. I tell new Equinox users who, with a machine right out of the box, want that edge. There is no edge for the first few weeks with any new machine. The presets are there for a reason. They have been tried and tested.

But the biggest thing aside from tweaking your setting so that you miss stuff is to G...O......S...L...O...W. It is not a race. If you find a relic. Stop, look, listen, well, forget the listen part. Mark your bearings. Sometimes I even do it with a GPS device. Then ASSUME there are more nearby. Keep the loop as close to the ground as you can. Do not make "Z" shaped swings. You will lose lots of targets. Make your swings more like what looks like a zipper line. Close and tight.

And those very faint signals, with no VDI, dig them. It will all mesh soon for you. Guaranteed. And in iron, you'll beat the pants off your friends.

 

[Peyton Manning]

My best advice?

Don’t trust whitey

 

[Calabash Digger]

V you are the man! Just saw this post.

 

[gravityboy]

I just wanted to add as someone who came to the Deus "dark side" from a Tesoro Tejon that once you get familiar with the Deus you will LOVE the pitch program. It is like everything you know in Tesoro's VCO "beep language" but with the added benefit of TID numbers and superior speed, depth and separation. It did take me a few months to learn the Deus but now that I have I can't believe how versatile it is in a variety of situations. You can go from prospecting in the middle of nowhere to pulling relics out of iron-rich patches with a simple push of + or -

 

[smokeythecat]

Jeff-Gordon, I see you have been up too late again. Nap time!

 

[1gadawgsfan]

Well, I only got out for about an hour and then the rain set in and we had to leave. I was able to dig a few targets, penny about 2 inches deep and a 22 bullet about 2 inches deep as well. I think I have everything loaded in there correctly. I guess we will see on the next outing.
Not a great update but just wanted to let everyone know.

Thanks again

 

[1gadawgsfan]

sorry for the delayed response, I was able to get out yesterday for a couple hours. I was able to dig a few items. (Shotgun brass) Nothing that I wanted to dig and still no deeper targets but I was able to try things that has been suggested. I am trying to get permission to some property that I know for sure has Civil War items that I am after, this will be the true test for me

 

[A2coins]

Welcome keep at it and learn and read

 

[Possum]

When I bought my machine I was discouraged at first but thanks to all the guy's and Gal's on this forum who really helped me more than you could ever imagine!!! I've got about 100 hours on the machine now and it's really starting to click, so just don't give up, it's a great machine and I absolutely love it, so hang in there it'll be well worth it... "D"

 

[Cyberdeus]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/deus/600015-advice-forum.html#post6087649

Thank you so much for this vFerrari, I needed this and going one by one through the topics was worth it. This is very useful and informative for any Deus noobs like me.