Multi Tones versus Pitch

[Jeff H]

Following up from Secondstar's post, I would like to discuss the benefits of Pitch versus Multi Tones. Are there real advantages to using Pitch over Multi Tones or is it more of a personal preference? I have not done any serious comparisons between the two. The handful of times I have compared weak targets in iron infested patches, both Pitch and Multi Tones were up to the task.

We have our Pitch power-users V and Calabash, so I would like to ask you guys and anyone else, if Pitch has an advantage over Multi Tones in any particular circumstances. I find Multi Tones easier on the ears than Pitch. But if using Pitch has a measurable advantage, I will force my ears to suck it up and get with the program

 

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[secondstar]

I look forward to this discussion. I have had a very, very good year so far using full tones with zero discrimination, but hey, there's always room for improvement! I believe that calabash and tnsharpshooter have made videos showing the differences between full tones / multi tones and pitch. Also, vferarri has explained that pitch can have an advantage in revealing targets hidden in dense iron. What I'm still confused about, is how would pitch behave at a site that is infested with modern trash?

 

[smokeythecat]

I think you'll have a little more difficulty with pitch with lots of modern trash and iron. Just my opinion. I have stuck to three and four tones, and just dig most everything in that range. I had a really nice gold ring come in as a "55" which is what most of my nickels come in. Interesting discussion.

 

[Tedyoh]

Yes pitch has its place and its not in parks or modern trash areas....but more of long lost foundations hidden in the forest....the key with pitch is if it sees non ferrous (relics) it'll sounds off better than full tones...also the pitch tone will not get "dragged down" if iron is close by the relic.

 

[secondstar]

Yes pitch has its place and its not in parks or modern trash areas....but more of long lost foundations hidden in the forest....the key with pitch is if it sees non ferrous (relics) it'll sounds off better than full tones...also the pitch tone will not get "dragged down" if iron is close by the relic.

I'm going to try to pretend to be vferrari here for a second, here we go; By design full tones cannot be run with discrimination as the user will not hear (some / all) iron targets. However, the Deus was designed to work best with some discrimination applied. Setting discrimination to between 6-7 mitigates against up / down averaging of non ferrous targets. The reason that TID's don't up / down average when using pitch, is because the pitch program that some of the really experienced Deus users on the forum run uses discrimination. How did I do? He's extremely knowledgeable and is therefore a tough act to follow! :-)

 

[Jeff H]

LOL....I thought it was V for a second.

 

[secondstar]

LOL....I thought it was V for a second.

Actually, on the subject of up / down averaging, the Deus does tend to up average deep targets. Calabash posted something a while back advising against using tone breaks as a way to thwart iron wrap around. As sure as can be, I dug a large cent last year at around 9 inches that rang up at a 97. I wonder if pitch with a discrimination setting of between 6 and 7 mitigates against this, or will deep targets always up average? In a way, this is kind of a good things because it makes the user dig where one might not have.

 

[smokeythecat]

Secondstar, I think you're a little taller than V.

 

[Calabash Digger]

Full tones will miss some masked targets that are masked because it will drag the non ferrous down into the iron range...Now will discrim help with this dont know but I doubt it . It will probably just disc them out I always ran full tones with zero discrim as I needed to know where the iron is. The way I set my pitch program up...it reacts violently to non ferrous in iron on relic sites so I will find even the faintest signals in iron.... My Pitch program IS NOT for modern sites...as it alerts on all non ferrous. There are nuances to my pitch program that take around 100 hours to start picking up on.

Are there any advantages over multi tones?? I think Pitch setup my way alerts better in iron but to each his own on that subject.

 

[Calabash Digger]

Actually, on the subject of up / down averaging, the Deus does tend to up average deep targets. Calabash posted something a while back advising against using tone breaks as a way to thwart iron wrap around. As sure as can be, I dug a large cent last year at around 9 inches that rang up at a 97. I wonder if pitch with a discrimination setting of between 6 and 7 mitigates against this, or will deep targets always up average? In a way, this is kind of a good things because it makes the user dig where one might not have.

From what I remember in the test garden they still up avergage....I dont use the remote in the field and dig by tone alone so dont really pay attention to VDI numbers while relic hunting.

 

[secondstar]

Full tones will miss some masked targets that are masked because it will drag the non ferrous down into the iron range...Now will discrim help with this dont know but I doubt it . It will probably just disc them out I always ran full tones with zero discrim as I needed to know where the iron is. The way I set my pitch program up...it reacts violently to non ferrous in iron on relic sites so I will find even the faintest signals in iron.... My Pitch program IS NOT for modern sites...as it alerts on all non ferrous. There are nuances to my pitch program that take around 100 hours to start picking up on.

Are there any advantages over multi tones?? I think Pitch setup my way alerts better in iron but to each his own on that subject.

So perhaps that's the trick... Folks can and perhaps should run a program with zero discrimination when they are trying to locate a site, especially if it's off the beaten path. Once the presence of iron is detected the user can cut over to your pitch program and find all of the goodies!

 

[vferrari]

With iron volume on, you still find those sites even with discrimination applied. That's why pitch with disc has overtaken 0 disc/full tones as my "search for the site" program. I think Calabash is there as well. Hunting with Calabash earlier this year, we hit a clear cut field with pitch and walked hundreds of yards with not a peep in our headphones. We saw some dish shards on the ground then started hearing nails. A few minutes later recovered some coins and buttons in a small concentrated area. It dried up and we were off again through a clear cut silence until we happened upon another small iron and non-ferrous hot spot. That was all done with our machines exclusively in pitch with iron volume at 1 or 2 and disc at 7 or so. No need to go to 0 disc to hear iron with the Deus. Iron volume with disc is an underrated feature of Deus. If I do want to go "all metal", I use Gold Field. I go with multi tones in heavy modern trash sites.

 

[HuntinDog]

Great info here.
I've tried pitch in my relic sites and pulled many relics that I missed using full tones.
Got to use what works

 

[Calabash Digger]

V hit the nail on the head. I run disc at 7.5 and iron vol at 1 where it is very low at all times.

 

[Jeff H]

I pretty much hunt the same way except I use Multi Tones instead of Pitch. Most of my relic programs have a bit of Disc and smidgeon of Iron Volume. Though I tend to keep my Reactivity =1 even in moderate iron. For me, I find that higher Reactivity settings can attenuate those deep or weak nonferrous signals a bit too much for my liking. I'll jack it up to 2 to 3 when hunting in the heavy stuff like those bands of nails that circle the edges of cellar holes. Heck I've even used R=4 to sniff out some small cuff buttons from some iron-choked sites. But 80% of the time I am using R=1. If I had to deal with modern trash, it would be a whole different approach.

 

[smokeythecat]

What Calabash said! Those pesky colonial axes have to go!

 

[secondstar]

I made a 25 kHz program based on Deus Fast and have done pretty well with it. I feel as if running discrimination at 6.1 is a little too low however. Do you guys think that setting discrimination at 7 or 7.5 will work as well on multi tone programs as well as when using pitch?

 

[vferrari]

I made a 25 kHz program based on Deus Fast and have done pretty well with it. I feel as if running discrimination at 6.1 is a little too low however. Do you guys think that setting discrimination at 7 or 7.5 will work as well on multi tone programs as well as when using pitch?

Why do you think it might be too low? Anywhere between 6.1 and 10 is fine. Picking a specific number in that range is just splitting hairs.

 

[secondstar]

The machine seemed to be letting more through than I thought that it should. Also, I guess that I don’t understand why XP would make disc settings available down to the decimal point. Is this to provide more granular control over disc?

 

[vferrari]

The machine seemed to be letting more through than I thought that it should. Also, I guess that I don’t understand why XP would make disc settings available down to the decimal point. Is this to provide more granular control over disc?

Yes, I think that is why they did it, but I think it is overkill, quite frankly. Anyway, I do keep mine around 7 or 8. Even up to 10 is ok as it has no effect on depth. As long as you can hear the iron you should be fine and are unlikely to disc out non-ferrous even at that point. HTH.