Doll Identification
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Thread: Doll Identification

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  1. #1
    us
    Oct 2013
    memphis ,tn
    125
    34 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Doll Identification

    Greetings Everyone,


    I need help identifying this old doll. I have no clue as to what kind of doll it is. Thank you!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	1855235   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	front of doll.jpg 
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ID:	1855236  
    Red-Coat likes this.

  2. #2
    gb
    Dec 2019
    Surrey
    2,100
    5842 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    The 'gold coins' sewn around the neck of the blouse, big lace sleeves, flouncy long skirt, and headscarf all suggest to me that it's a Roma/gypsy doll. That kind of garb would be traditional for places in Eastern Europe such as Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary etc... although that doesn't mean the doll was made there.

    Are there any markings on the 'coins' which provide a clue? If you rummage around underneath the clothing (if it's not too delicate), you may find the doll itself is marked somewhere.
    Last edited by Red-Coat; Aug 10, 2020 at 10:09 AM.

  3. #3
    us
    Oct 2013
    memphis ,tn
    125
    34 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Here's photos of the front and back of the coin:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	doll coin.jpg 
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ID:	1855287
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	doll coin 2.jpg 
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ID:	1855288


    Quote Originally Posted by Red-Coat View Post
    The 'gold coins' sewn around the neck of the blouse, big lace sleeves, flouncy long skirt, and headscarf all suggest to me that it's a Roma/gypsy doll. That kind of garb would be traditional for places in Eastern Europe such as Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary etc... although that doesn't mean the doll was made there.

    Are there any markings on the 'coins' which provide a clue? If you rummage around underneath the clothing (if it's not too delicate), you may find the doll itself is marked somewhere.
    Red-Coat likes this.

  4. #4
    gb
    Dec 2019
    Surrey
    2,100
    5842 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    That’s helpful. It looks like a generic fantasy imitation of Islamic gold coins of the former Ottoman Empire. Something like this (alongside a real gold coin to give you an idea of the kinds of coin they were loosely copying).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ottoman1.jpg 
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ID:	1855391 Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	1855394

    These base metal imitations are commonly known as ‘belly-dancer’ coins from their use as adornments by dancers in Turkish, Middle-Eastern and North African regions, but were also widely used to decorate belts, shawls, and the necks of blouses… in particular by Roma (Romani) people and more particularly those who have historically resided in places which were part of the Ottoman Empire.

    ‘Romani’ is neither a nationality nor a religion. It’s an ethnic group that has populations in a number of countries and they have tended to adopt either Christianity or Islam as a religion depending mainly on whether they live(d) in places that were part of the former Ottoman Empire and how recently they escaped from it as the Empire progressively collapsed from the late 1800s to its demise in 1923.

    If you put that together with the ‘gypsy’ nature of the folk costume, the likely origins would be Albania, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Kosovo, North Macedonia (having significant Muslim populations) or Armenia, Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia (having much less significant Muslim populations but nevertheless under Ottoman rule until the collapse began).

    That still only gives you the possible origin of the folk costume style rather than necessarily the origin of the doll itself. The USA has a substantial number of people of Romani descent who arrived as immigrants, bringing their cultural identity with them, so that’s another possibility.

  5. #5
    us
    Oct 2013
    memphis ,tn
    125
    34 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Thanks for that information. Could you please give me a timeframe? How old would this be? Is it a rare find? Should I keep it or give it to Salvation Army?
    Quote Originally Posted by Red-Coat View Post
    That’s helpful. It looks like a generic fantasy imitation of Islamic gold coins of the former Ottoman Empire. Something like this (alongside a real gold coin to give you an idea of the kinds of coin they were loosely copying).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ottoman1.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	70.6 KB 
ID:	1855391 Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ottoman2.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	86.5 KB 
ID:	1855394

    These base metal imitations are commonly known as ‘belly-dancer’ coins from their use as adornments by dancers in Turkish, Middle-Eastern and North African regions, but were also widely used to decorate belts, shawls, and the necks of blouses… in particular by Roma (Romani) people and more particularly those who have historically resided in places which were part of the Ottoman Empire.

    ‘Romani’ is neither a nationality nor a religion. It’s an ethnic group that has populations in a number of countries and they have tended to adopt either Christianity or Islam as a religion depending mainly on whether they live(d) in places that were part of the former Ottoman Empire and how recently they escaped from it as the Empire progressively collapsed from the late 1800s to its demise in 1923.

    If you put that together with the ‘gypsy’ nature of the folk costume, the likely origins would be Albania, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Kosovo, North Macedonia (having significant Muslim populations) or Armenia, Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia (having much less significant Muslim populations but nevertheless under Ottoman rule until the collapse began).

    That still only gives you the possible origin of the folk costume style rather than necessarily the origin of the doll itself. The USA has a substantial number of people of Romani descent who arrived as immigrants, bringing their cultural identity with them, so that’s another possibility.

  6. #6
    gb
    Dec 2019
    Surrey
    2,100
    5842 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    You haven't said what it's made of, but I suspect closer examination will reveal modern materials that show it's not antique. Here's a vintage sixties one (given away by plastic arms among other things) of a similar nature, although only 7 inches, up for sale at under $20

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Balkan.jpg 
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ID:	1855653

    Yours is twice the size and may be a little older, but not ancient. I wouldn't have thought it would fetch more than a few tens of dollars, assuming you find a collector who wants it.

 

 

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