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  1. #61
    us
    Jul 2005
    New Mexico
    White's XLT
    3,816
    7 times

    Re: Putting the brakes on the skeptics

    Quote Originally Posted by sodak
    I really enjoyed seeing so many responses, irregardless of the intent from the authors, so lets be friends ,shall we?,, I especially liked the post referring to reproduce-able results and controlled conditions,,,,, verified laboratory results is fine with,, controlled conditions also are good,, and reproduce-able results are a piece of cake.It seems there are many of us who possess a super ego which precludes them from accepting anything which they cannot master them selves,,, thus I try to educate rather than denigrate,,,,,,
    1) I claim to able to find analomies
    a)that is metals,some crystals and ores of minerals, water, voids in the earth,various alloys and most substances which can accept and radiate a magnetic field(induced field or eddy current)
    2) I do not claim to know what it is I have found, unless it has been identified initially regarding physical size.
    3) I do not claim to know the depth of the substance.
    4) I can stand motionless with my ellrods extended in my hands, and when items are place beneath the wires,, they will cross if the above criteria is met(#1)and will uncross when the substance is removed, and I can and will do this blind folded if you wish.And filming this phenomenon is acceptable to me ,if I have exclusive rights to the film.
    Furthermore,, I am not ina position to travel, as I have a responsibility to my family to stay here and provide for them, thus, if you want proof, you must come here.I allways pay for my own expenses, when travelling, and have no regrets for refusing to prove my claims,some people will never believe irregardless.This is unfortunate loss for them,,a missed opportunity to learn something.
    So, in closing those who wish to challenge my claim, must do so at their own expense,, and those who wish to learn this skill, will get a free tutorial,which is only fair. Dont you think?
    I encourage any and all
    Just playing devil's advocate for a second here but:
    If number 4 is proof of number 1, what would happen if we threw in a dash of number 3?

    Ferinstance: I put you on a ladder, blindfolded, holding your l-rods. I then place a gold coin on the ground in front of the ladder under your rods. Would you get a reaction?

    Coming back to that, what if I reproduced the same test, but stood under your rods myself? Would my presence cause your rods to move?

    Also, just out of pure curiosity, what do you consider an anomaly? You mentioned several things above but is anything other than plain old dirt an anomaly? I mean, would a bottle cap just under the surface of the dirt be considered an anomaly? A rock nine or ten inches down, would that be an anomaly? What if it was a rock that very commonly occurred in a certain area? Would it then cease to be anomalous?

    And what kind of objects either accept or radiate a magnetic field? Is that a mandatory element for you to dowse an object?
    We all know there's no such thing as a "hunted out" location. Let's stop using that phrase to describe a park out of which you just dug a pile of coins! Obviously that particular place wasn't "hunted out", right?

  2. #62
    us
    Apr 2009
    354
    1 times

    Re: Putting the brakes on the skeptics

    4) I can stand motionless with my ellrods extended in my hands, and when items are place beneath the wires,, they will cross if the above criteria is met(#1)and will uncross when the substance is removed, and I can and will do this blind folded if you wish.And filming this phenomenon is acceptable to me ,if I have exclusive rights to the film.
    Full disclosure: I'm a skeptic that is trying to keep an open mind. I'm doing my own testing and have created L-rods out of copper house wire as you have suggested.

    I'm curious about the above test. Can you help me by answering the following questions?

    1) Do you feel that everyone is capable of doing this with practice or do you think that there is a form of psychic ability in dowsing? From previous posts I gather that you feel dowsing is purely physical which would imply that I should be able to perform the same test successfully if the conditions are equivalent.

    2) What type of metal/substance should I use to have the best odds of repeating this test? Is a man's 14k gold ring sufficient? Is it too small? How big of an object should I pick? Does size even matter?

    I like the simplicity of this test as a way of verifying my own ability to dowse. It certainly doesn't prove or disprove anything if I can't do it. But if I can do it then it takes me to the next step which is trying to figure out why it works.

    By the way, for those of you who are curious as to why a skeptic would bother attempting to learn dowsing, I have found that it is often better to assume that what someone claims is indeed true and then try to figure out why people are claiming such a thing. I am a software developer/architect and have witnessed first hand how many developers react when a customer reports strange behavior in the software. They are usually skeptical and rebuke the user's claims as being impossible. Instead, I prefer to assume that the user is telling the truth and that there must be a reason why they are seeing the behavior they are seeing. It is very uncommon for a user to report something that is completely made up. Having an open mind helps the developer consider the problem from new angles and come up with the fixes to problems much more quickly.

    Now software and dowsing are certainly quite different. In the world of software there is usually very little reason for a user to lie. In the dowsing world there are certainly going to be people who have financial incentive to make up stories. But in the end I think it still makes sense to have an open mind and try to figure out why some people would claim what they claim. Even if dowsing is completely bogus there appear to be people who truly believe that it works and have done their own tests to prove it to themselves. I don't think they have any reason to lie to themselves about it. So why are they seeing this behavior? Ideomotor response is of course one possibility. But it is a well known possibility and I would think that most dowsers would be very aware of it by now and would "self-correct" their own belief system if that were the case. But who knows.

  3. #63
    us
    The Watcher

    Apr 2004
    Northern Nevada
    Dowsing Rods and a Ranger Tell Examiner
    7,820
    250 times

    Re: Putting the brakes on the skeptics

    Hey jb7487…..Read this…This how I test myself….http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,28701.0.html
    I am a Physical Dowser. I use Mental Dowsing on rare occasions. I used to practice a lot. Today I am working on a new test garden. Since the North Pole has increased it’s speed toward the East I have decide to use a 4 foot square piece of plywood with my North-South and East-West lines painted on it. That way it will be simple to adjust for the Magnetic drift.
    It sounds like you are well aware of the Ideomotor response. It is a very sneaky thing and tries to sneak in all the time. With a lot of practice you soon learn that the rod swing is different when Ideomotor response tries to take over. For me it is the fact that I do not feel the pull on the rods before they start to turn….Art

  4. #64
    us
    lock on

    Jul 2007
    The Motor City
    L-rod / Y-rod / pendulum / angle rods / wand (bobber) Tesoro Cortes, Garrett Ultra GTA 500, Discovery TF900 and Fisher Gemini III 2-box
    807
    29 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Putting the brakes on the skeptics

    If anyone is planning to come to the Detroit, Michigan area, and wants to learn what works for me regarding dowsing, or share what works for you with me, you're welcome to drop me an email and we'll set up some time to go out to some open land or the woods and do some dowsing. I like to keep things simple. This is'nt about arguing, blindfolding games or test procedures, it's for a person who believes in dowsing who is desiring to get started in dowsing, or becoming a better dowser (myself included) and sharing what I know with you.
    I have a practice site where we will practice on precious metals and minerals along with cemetery work if that is of interest to you.
    We will also do some basic map/photo work.
    I also have some cache leads. The cache leads are my own and are not affilliated in any way with past, present or future dowsing projects from tnet forum members or guests, or any other treasure/dowsing forum of which I am a member.
    Bring your own equipment, metal detector or I can make a set of angle rods/pendulum for you.
    Jon
    "Let Thy Hand, Oh God, guide me through the ways Thou seest are needed for those that seek to know Thy way through any effort of mine."

  5. #65
    au
    Aug 2008
    152
    2 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Putting the brakes on the skeptics

    Three out of four postings here are a lot of baloney re dowsing. It is a mental thingo which is being stretched out into a physical thingo by those trying to dodge the issue through being incapable of ever receiving a mental dowsing hit.
    I find the fanciful statements posted on this thread of being able to mentally dowse without mentally dowsing as sickening, absurb and being tolerated for what reason I dont know by the powers to be of treasure net.

    These physical dowsers who are really LRL advocates , own LRLs, and in one instance sell LRLs with there hairy airy nonsensical statements should be shunted to a small nook on a small Island in the pacific or the atlantic. Goodness knows how many new chums wishing to learn dowsing get mislead into the wilderness by absurb dowsing rethoric by those incapable of mastering the art but like to be big shots on the internet(Dowser 501) Max

  6. #66
    au
    Aug 2008
    152
    2 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Putting the brakes on the skeptics

    Dell, why are you assuming mental dowsing is a subconscious effort? You couldnt be further from the truth.


    I have to consciously make a mental effort to dowse when there is available EMF. I consciously have to mentally project for a given target, and as mental dowsing is pure and simply mental radar, I will recieve back a mental yes or no.

    Whats this meta physics business you keep adding to your statements? As a mental dowser for over a quarter of a century I havn't got the faintest idea what you are talking about, and i doubt whatever meta physics is supposed to represent,. it certainly isnt mental dowsing. Meta ( Italian for half or semi) always makes me think of half dowsing.

    I feel that your mixing LRLs with mental dowsing would come under the terminology of MENTAL BROWSING Max

  7. #67
    us
    The Watcher

    Apr 2004
    Northern Nevada
    Dowsing Rods and a Ranger Tell Examiner
    7,820
    250 times

    Re: Putting the brakes on the skeptics

    Sorry Max that the solar weather has not been good for your Dowsing lately. As you can see from reading this web site most of us just keep on Dowsing and locating treasure. Why should we change something that works for us? I will use any and all equipment that aids me in finding treasure.
    Read up on the Suns activity. Do you really want to wait another 5 years just to prove a point?...Art

  8. #68
    us
    The Watcher

    Apr 2004
    Northern Nevada
    Dowsing Rods and a Ranger Tell Examiner
    7,820
    250 times

    Re: Putting the brakes on the skeptics

    Gee Mike…I have tried Max’s methods. Have you? I don’t agree to much with Max but---He has the right to speak his mind. Many of the old time T-net members remember Max. Yes he is a real dowser and when he gives me information I give it a try. There may just be someone out there that understands and uses Max’s methods. That is what this forum is all about….Exchange of information….Art

  9. #69
    ie
    Apr 2008
    On da money
    Mermet brass pendulum; Aqua Locator (antique), Luddite Skeptic detector
    176

    Re: Putting the brakes on the skeptics

    It is no wonder that so many sceptics look at this section of Tnet and marvel at the lack of concensus. Not in content, but in the expression of the right to an opinion.

    A large number of you believe that, because you are immersed in your dowsing journey, that you are the last word on it on the latest date in question. This is patently not true. I have learned a LOT from the majority of posters here; new techniques, subtle differences in approach. I do not doubt the veracity of most of what I have absorbed. I do doubt the edgy confidence of a number of posters in the dowsing forum who believe they have been there, bought the T-shirt. There is a WEALTH of dowsing literature out there, much of it in French and German. There is a lot of it alluded to here in a bibliography that Art may have pulled together in another post?

    I have learned a lot from posting and reading here. But I also liaise with psychic dowsers on Britishdowsers.org. I also frequent other forums too. With much accurate psychic dowsing performed by others (and sometimes myself), I have no doubt as to the veracity of what I have read from MASTERS of dowsing over the last 150 years. I do worry about some of the hyper-confidence that I read of here. Nothing wrong with it if it works for you, guys! But don't knock what you don't know. And don't tell me that you can know what doesn't work for me or anyone else here. its not true, its disingenuous when you are flying kites for your own fancies and its also bad manners in what should be an intellectual and FUN meeting of minds.

    I take my hats off to the majority of you. Let those who take offence take it in a full measure. I seek an enthusiastic meeting of minds, not this fear of others' realities. A sincere thanks to those who help and advise me on a regular basis and help put meat on the bone of the heavy reading I have done in the area of dowsing, psionics and such like.

  10. #70
    us
    Jan 2007
    Mountain View, OK
    Garrett Ace 250
    660
    2 times

    Re: Putting the brakes on the skeptics

    Well said, An, but as a skeptic, I do not feel as if I had brakes put on me.
    "You should never take life too seriously....you are never going to get out alive." Van Wilder.

  11. #71
    us
    Feb 2006
    GARRETT PRO
    10,951
    953 times

    Re: Putting the brakes on the skeptics

    Quote Originally Posted by Goodyguy
    Quote Originally Posted by Libralabsoldier
    GG, you cannot prove a negative. IF dowsing had verifiable, repeatable results, it would be a science. It does not.

    You cannot claim something is real or exists without some sort of evidence or reproducibility. If the OP was so confident in his abilities, he would have responded with terms.
    Dowsing has been around for thousands of years.
    If it didn't work It should be gone by now.

    GG~
    Your logic escapes me...

    Cockroaches (as with a great number of other things), also have been around for (hundreds of) thousands of years,
    yet their progeny are still around...

    The more one learns the more he understands his ignorance. I am simply an ignor ant man trying to lessen his ignorance
    Those with the most birthdays live the longest

  12. #72
    ie
    Apr 2008
    On da money
    Mermet brass pendulum; Aqua Locator (antique), Luddite Skeptic detector
    176

    Re: Putting the brakes on the skeptics

    Quote Originally Posted by stefen
    Quote Originally Posted by Goodyguy
    Quote Originally Posted by Libralabsoldier
    GG, you cannot prove a negative. IF dowsing had verifiable, repeatable results, it would be a science. It does not.

    You cannot claim something is real or exists without some sort of evidence or reproducibility. If the OP was so confident in his abilities, he would have responded with terms.
    Dowsing has been around for thousands of years.
    If it didn't work It should be gone by now.

    GG~
    Your logic escapes me...

    Cockroaches (as with a great number of other things), also have been around for (hundreds of) thousands of years,
    yet their progeny are still around...

    YOUR logic escapes me!!! And others I imagine. Unless you have an emotive issue with cockroaches, your choice of metaphor is poor. You're agreeing with Goodyguy

    Logic you say?

  13. #73
    Charter Member
    us
    I can dig it! "WP"

    Mar 2007
    Bounty Hunter's, Whites TM 808, Whites GMT, Suction Dredges, Hand Dredges, Trommels, Gold Vacs, High Bankers, Fluid bed Gold Traps, Gold Pans, Sluices, Dry Washers, Miller Tables, Rp4 Wave table, etc.
    4,652
    1876 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Putting the brakes on the skeptics

    Quote Originally Posted by stefen
    Quote Originally Posted by Goodyguy
    Quote Originally Posted by Libralabsoldier
    GG, you cannot prove a negative. IF dowsing had verifiable, repeatable results, it would be a science. It does not.

    You cannot claim something is real or exists without some sort of evidence or reproducibility. If the OP was so confident in his abilities, he would have responded with terms.
    Dowsing has been around for thousands of years.
    If it didn't work It should be gone by now.

    GG~
    Your logic escapes me...

    Cockroaches (as with a great number of other things), also have been around for (hundreds of) thousands of years,
    yet their progeny are still around...

    Obviously the cockroach physiology works very well. That's why they are still around after thousands of years

    And your point is...............................................? ?
    ~Diggin The Adventure~
    Visit My Personal Forum Pages

  14. #74
    au
    Aug 2008
    152
    2 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Putting the brakes on the skeptics

    Mike I have noted that you are making too many hasty judgements which reflect your questionable IQ.
    BP from Scotland ? yes I know of him although we do not correspond nowadays, nor had we in recent years since he shifted to Scotland.
    There has been no dowsable weather worth digging by since 2004 and he is currently trying vainly like you and Art to make some sense out of LRLs out of desperation.
    I have spotted some of his occasional posts on t/net.
    He is probably reading this post . "Hey Bill, say something to this poor disillusioned frustrated would be dowser."

    The last moon cycle gave me a small amount of dowsing strength ( the first in 4 years) but not enought to dig by yet. ( a week ago) "I e-mailed a picture of a site to a dowser in Colorado whom I tutored years ago and he is a good dowser , and I noticed that in the northern hemisphere he is getting stronger bursts of EMF than down in the bottom of Australia at the moment" Look at the EMF history of Canada over the past 60 years.

    Dowsing cycles can come in cycles of only a few months and then your rods will be silent for months or sometimes years at a time like the present. Nassa has several satelites orbiting since the beginning of this solar cycle by which all dowsing is possible, and they are just as frustrated over the past several years as I am.

    According to the past 4 or 5 Solar cycles the solar flares which power dowsing have been emanating toward the middle of their cycles or just after, which makes good dowsing weather quite likely for this cycle somewhere between 2011 and 2013.

    With dowsing weather when it emanates, and once again country farming magazines will have ads from Dowsers finding water for farmers although few will work out why their skills deserted them for a few years. And once again we can rid this forum of pretenders like mike who constantly gaze up and down this forum lavishly and lovingly and so pleased to see they have outposted every one else, even if the contents of their postings are nonsense and wild guesses.
    I do not blame sceptics one iota because of lack of proof. Fancy being able to see thru dirt mentally. If for instant dowsing weather was with us once again and I posted methods of proof for them to have a go, the scepticism dies off for several years, until the next dowsing drought occurs. I think I will copy a chapter out of of my book which I decided was too damaging to publish , when I proved beyond doubt the authenticy of Mental dowsing. ( To myself)
    Regards Max ( dowser 501)
    PS . Mike , you have to get up earlier in the mornings .

  15. #75
    us
    The Watcher

    Apr 2004
    Northern Nevada
    Dowsing Rods and a Ranger Tell Examiner
    7,820
    250 times

    Re: Putting the brakes on the skeptics

    Hey Max…Last weekend I received a couple of PM’s from people who had lost the dowsing signal. I tested my rods and found that they closed but very weak when they locked. I checked the space weather and found that the readings were almost non existent. I gave them the web site and told them to check and to try again when the bars went up. I know that the sun and weak magnetic lines have an effluence on my dowsing. But I can still located what I want. Heck..I know my style of dowsing is not in it’s purest form. No….I will not change my methods because some say it is not Dowsing. …Art

 

 
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