Scientific approach to dowsing...

[angel_09]

Some people think that dowsing is a form of religious belief where all things happen because of faith.
This is where the loophole and bottleneck came from. Some are practicing it based on beliefs passed through by dowser to another dowser, and this evolution of belief shrouded the true scientific concept of dowsing. People who can not accept its present practice based on present belief about dowsing, became Skeptics. For the word dowsing to be accepted as an undiscovered science, I suggest to all dowser to confine our definition and theories within the boundary of science. Everybody will agree that human body gives off energy from the smallest electrons, atoms, molecules and the body as a whole, where it can be converted into different units of energy:Thermal, power, pressure etc. showing that dowsing is working in the vicinity of scientific principles.

Angel

[DoctorDan]

Careful on that limb SWR. If I was a dowser, I could easily reproduce the effect of dowsing by going out every day and doing it. Results may differ every day but the effect would be the same, I'm dowsing. Nothing scientific about that.
Sounds like Richdiggins is trying to hook a monitoring device to an antenna. Whats the baseline you're going to compare to? A clothshanger in it's natural state?
Seems to me it would make more sense to hook a monitoring device to a human body and see what effect an antenna (dowsing rod) has on it. Might be surprised at what you find but this is edging too close to this forums cutoff point so I will leave it at that. Suffice to say that if you're looking for that supposedly nonexistent 'common denominator', consider using a human body.
Also, as for whether dowsing works or not, that question is better (and more humorously) left to those with an "agenda".

HH

[DoctorDan]

SWR, the human body as a baseline and the act of dowsing, even though some of the methods are downright strange, would seem to be VERY scientific in terms of research on the subject. I would think a measurable change in the baseline, irregardless of the method used, would signify SOMETHING happened.
I would also take exception to this "nothing is found". Back in the mid '70s when I was running a backhoe, I watched a man (Doc West) dowse 5 different wells for me. He never missed on location, depth and amount of water. I never questioned how he did it then and I wouldn't today. What I would question is whether there was a measurable effect on him and why.
I wonder sometimes if this 'effect' is what causes me to end up in the most productive part of the yard first. It seems to happen a lot, but maybe it's just 'good luck'.

[Kentucky Kache]

The scientific approach has already been applied to dowsing, and the explanation has been available for many years now.

The term "ideomotor action" was coined by William B. Carpenter in 1852...



So, you see, science (and scientists) have already applied the scientific approach to dowsing and have issued their collective scientific analysis.



>Karl<

?

Scientific knowledge of 1852? Are you sure you want to use that as your base? A new world across the ocean was once pseudo science.
I'm not a dowser, so I can't say anything for or against. I just can't understand scoffing something just because you don't understand it.
Do you know how electricity works? Science has a theory, but that's all it is - a theory. Any idea contrary to that theory is considered quackery. Who cares how it works. IT WORKS.

[Kentucky Kache]

I said "electricity" works. If you are 100% sure of "How", then you are far beyond the scientists of today. I don't call it a theory, they do.
My point is, why dismiss something because we can't explain it? I'm not talking about "Black magic"
but, as far as knowing the sex of a baby, we can do that by scientific means. When I was born, a doctor or scientist would have been locked away for such a foolish idea. He would have been called a pseudo scientist. Yea, buddy, it works. And if we can make that work, why can't we build other things to do what we never thought possible?

[Kentucky Kache]

But there's more to life than the crack pots. Could there be invisible lines of force that we know nothing about? Science is always finding new things. I'm keeping it on earth, but I'm keeping an open mind.

[aarthrj3811]

I agree, now will you please get the highly competative chicken ranchers in Japan to listen.

They still employ dowsers with pendulums to id the sex of an egg and also to see if they are fertilized. For some reason they don't seem to realize that it just a matter of chance that they are hitting 99% correct.

Isn't it a silly thing that they think that they can ID the sex of an egg, even of an unfertilized egg, wiith dowsing? Can you get any sillier than that?? Course since they they are in the auto 50% chance range, they are safe in showing success in the 99 % correct range no??:"?.

p.s. If their dowsers are even 5% off, the company is out of business since competition is so strong. They have to work on an a narrow band of profit to stay afloat.

"Jose de La Mancha" ( I tilt windmills )

[ZumbroKid]

Chicken ranchers? 8)

[Kentucky Kache]

I just can't understand scoffing something just because you don't understand it.

ps: Yes, I do understand electricity, and you needn't be a rocket scientist to share in the understanding.? Think about it... if we didn't fully understand electricity ---none of? us could be having this "forum conversation".

If you claim to understand electricity, that makes you pseudo.
What you understand is the theory. So do I.

[DoctorDan]

Per Karl Miller>>On the contrary, I understand dowsing perfectly. ?There is nothing about dowsing or the instruments utilized for dowsing that I don't understand.


? Finally, somebody in the know. Can you explain to me how Doc found those 5 wells, found the depth of them and was so sure they would produce enough water for the purpose? This 80% figure for water sounds good but this water had to be less than 20 ft, the reach of the backhoe. Possibly just good guessing but if he ever missed a guess, I'm not aware of it. He used to do the same guessing for the drillers in this part of the country and if he had missed any, I think I would have heard about it.
? Also, for what it's worth with the kids and L rods, i've seen my wife call six or eight kids and got them right. My x wifes mother seldom ever missed a call. I've yet to see any of them call the hair color on these kids though so maybe there's a cutoff point. I don't think these people ever heard of an L rod.

HH

[Kentucky Kache]

Jbot…I am having a hard time understanding what “mysteries” of electricity there are. We generate it, manipulate it and use it on a daily bases. Maybe I am missing something here.

HH, Jim

Do a study on electrical theory.

[aarthrj3811]

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[DoctorDan]

I don't think these people ever heard of an L rod.

Then, what does your ?story? have to do with dowsing claims?? ?

Great question!

>Karl<

?I just think some dowsers tend to overlook the obvious. I also think some dowsers and non-dowsers tend to overlook what they don't understand, such as the first paragraph after the quote from Karl.
?As for the "story", I didn't say they had never heard of dowsing, just probably not L rods. But in the case of the kids and the wells, I've always had a nagging question of how it was accomplished. I still do.

HH

[angel_09]

Study of science does not stop at one point. Other starts where other stops and failed. To say absolute statement covering entire time element is only making a fool out of himself. Way back time when men think that steel will float, are considered fool and pseudo sciencist. And when science fictions writers portray that man can fly to the moon and to other planets they are called crackpot writer, meaning it is impossible. Those SCIENTIST during that time, may be true based on their line of thinking and availability of materials, lack of theorems, and lack of sixth sense (COMMON SENSE), in which analogously is happening now in the field of dowsing.
We are seeing results, but were not accepted because procedures do not fit with the STANDARD of the so called AUTHORITY that says dowsing is not true... But the good question is ...ON WHOSE STANDARD? To the people who say that it isn't true, but do not provide any credible and logical reason to disprove it?[color=red][i] Quoting from other people's work does not give credibility to the person who copied it...unless he have TRIED HIMSELF to disproved it based on his OWN technical, logical and scientific reasoning AND EXPERIMENTATION... WHAT IS FALSE TODAY MAYBE TRUE TOMORROW...THERE IS NO SUCH THING THAT IS ABSOLUTE EXCEPT GOD...

[aarthrj3811]

Quote by Albert Einstein

"I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as they do astrology, as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time."

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...html#msg127043 # 62 #64 #72 # 73 # 74 # 75

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,19834.0.html Thread start #1--------# 7

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...c,19537.0.html .

[Carl-NC]

Most likely a false quote... same with that Thomas Edison quote folks occasionally use. Both used in an attempt to apply Scientific Authority to support a hypothesis, where normal methods of proof have failed.

- Carl

[aarthrj3811]

Skeptics Prove.... out of 1041 posts.....

http://www.thunting.com/cgi-bin/geot...ssel/index.dat

http://www.randi.org/jr/041103.htm

[Carl-NC]

carl, I notice your from NC and was just wondering about your avatar. Do you really feel black people should be silenced?

The avatar represents something other than what you assume it to represent. If I use Jerry Seinfeld instead, would it make you less uncomfortable?

- Carl

[aarthrj3811]

Skeptic Quotes on answer to # 36


are ANY of us going to take the word of an individual (as truth)

As you can see, it's real easy to put pictures of coins, odd rocks and other stuff in a posting ---but it is quite another thing to prove where they actually came from.

[Carl-NC]

Most likely a false quote... same with that Thomas Edison quote folks occasionally use. Both used in an attempt to apply Scientific Authority to support a hypothesis, where normal methods of proof have failed.

Oops, I made an error... it is the "Einstein quote" that is often thrown out in an attempt to use authority to bolster a claim.

The "Edison quote" is: When inventor Thomas A. Edison, was once asked, "What is electricity?" He replied: "I don't know either - but its there - so lets use it"

This made-up non-quote is normally used in the opposite manner, to marginalize science; if you can demonstrate just how stupid science is, then even a ludicrous claim will sound less ludicrous. The really funny thing about this particular non-quote, is that it has morphed into a general claim that even today's science doesn't know how electricity works. You can read that claim, right here in this thread. Is that hilarious, or what?

- Carl