Dowsing exixts for 8.000 years

[digman]

Dowsing is a gift of nature. Either you have it or not.
And this is where the argument with the non dowsers begins. People who can not dowse, can not accept that it happens. So, non dowsers, please don't argue any more, it's not a big deal, I can make you dowse, read on and find out.
Dowsing, or biolocation by some, is an ancient technique. As very correctly written by Sandsted in this forum, dowsing is 8.000 years old.
A cave painting found at Tassili nAjjer, in the Sahara desert, was calculated to be circa 6.000 B.C. The painting shows a crowd watching a dowser searching for water.
Furthermore, dowsing was recorded by Egyptians, circa 3.000 B.C.
The Hebrews used dowsing at 2.000 B.C. after their escape from ancient Egypt. In Bible, activities are recorder, by their leader Moses :
Take the rod... and speak ye unto the rock... and it shall give forth water (Numbers 20:9 11).
Further on, Cicero, an ancient Roman author (50 B.C.) has recorded the use of Virgula Divinatorium, which in Latin means 'a small stick which oscillates'.
Too many names and dates to list, it seems endless to me, the more I read, the more I find.
Recently, in 1986, Moglia reported a study at the Monastery of the Caves, in Kiev. There, a conventional sub-surface radar had failed to locate secret passageways. Of the 130 sites indicated by dowsers, 73 corresponded with existing passageways, previously known to the curators but not to the dowsers. At further 29 dowsed sites previously unknown to the curators, test drilling revealed cavities. Moglia reported at his study, a total success rate of 78%.

Through history, from the hundreds of people engaged in successful dowsing experiments, by Engineering Companies, Water Companies, Mining Companies, Breweries, Building Contractors, Farmers, Government Departments, Police, Armed Forces, e.t.c., only Randi failed (1979) to conduct a test in Italy, using 3 buried pipes with running water. Chamberlin (1980) recorded that Randi's test had several deficiencies, and no meaningful statistical evaluation was possible, so the test contributed little knowledge to the scientific community.

So, Randi failed... do you, all non-dowsers, know why? Because he didn't know.
If you are a non-dowser, and you desperately want to dowse, just wash your hands and keep them wet while dowsing.
Trust me, you will feel the difference.
Digman.

[gollum]

You state that the cave painting at Tassili conclusively shows what you say, but the only sources for the story all say "seems to". There is not one (legitimate) source I have seen that states it categorically.

You forgot another source of a magic stick; Mercury and his Caduceus. Oh, and Harry Potter!

Mike

[digman]

Thats right, although in mythology, Hermes for the ancient Greek was Mercury for the ancient Romans. Appolo gave to him a ''magic wand called caduceus. Hermes or Mercury used it to guide the souls of the dead to the under world. He also could control the living and the dead with it, or turn anything to gold''.
Well, Harry Potter's better for me !!
Digman.

[Cannonman17]

If I were you and was able to dowse I would make myself a quick million bucks..

[Carl-NC]

A cave painting found at Tassili nAjjer, in the Sahara desert, was calculated to be circa 6.000 B.C. The painting shows a crowd watching a dowser searching for water.

It shows no such thing.

[gollum]

I have to agree with Carl here. I've been through bunches of the Tassili Cave Paintings. I saw many about groups hunting (not for water), swimming stags, etc, but none that the Natural Arches of Tassili National Park classifies as having anything to do with dowsing.

Mike

[Carl-NC]

It's a myth that keeps getting handed down from one article or book to the next, with the authors too lazy to actually check on its validity. But I bothered to check... click here for the details.

[Sandsted]

The point I made of 8,000 years I can't remember exactly where was from. It wasn't from a dowsing page it was some...native american or something just saying that they are tracking bison using a forked stick.

But I am wondering how they dated this because of knew discoveries I've made I am going to disagree with myself or rather with the source that I took that from.

The time of creation was roughly 4,000 B.C., this is recorded in every igneous stone. No later date have I found. I'm still studying this this might not be fully correct but...because of this information, whether it is valid or not, I am going to ask the question, "How did they date this? Is it an estimation? Is there some way to date the paint?"

In other artifacts like corpses that are very old like the bog man or these "missing links" they use Carbon 14. Which chance guess would be in many cases more accurate.

Some scientists checking this tested a live cat and dated it to be about 23,000 years old and a different part of the animal to be millions year older. It is not accurate and is a laughable system.

So how do they date these? I study a martial art called Chuan Fa which is a combination of Northern and Southern Shaolin Kung Fu and American Kempo. Anyway, I was always taught that Shaolin has been taught, studied, and revised for over 7,000 years. But now I wonder how they come up with that date. It has and always will be an orally taught system, at it's root. You can't teach a martial art with a book or video, there are subtle internal things that can never be taught effectively without a person right there to see you and help you. So how to they date that?

[gollum]

Did Reverend Ike, or Benny Hinn tell you creation was 4000 years ago? Chinese written records go back to 1800 B.C. So, you are telling me that we went from Adam and Eve to EVERY RACE IN THE WORLD IN 2200 YEARS? Look at how we have changed (physically) in the 2006 years since Christ was crucified. Not a whole lot!

Please show me where (and most importantly...WHO) conducted the tests you mention! Carbon 14 dating requires calibrated equipment, and somebody who knows what they are doing. Carbon dating is not that hard to understand. After death, every living thing sheds radiation (carbon 14 isotopes) at a given rate. Doesn't matter what it is, the rate's the same. By determining the amount of carbon 14 isotopes still left in the sample, we can accurately determine how long it has been dead (if I am mistaken, somebody please correct me. I am not a scientist).

Mike

Mike

[digman]

Sandsted, perhaps you miised some zeros....
Time of creation was possibly 4,5 billion years ago, on a Monday... for sure !!!
When the number is big, we all make mistakes !!!
Digman.

[digman]

As far as the cave painting found in Tassili nAjjer in Sahara, possibly I might be wrong. I trusted an article by John Wilcock, in which he mentions ''The first recorded use of dowsing is thought to be a cave painting at Tassili nAjjer in the Sahara, dated to approximately 6000 B.C. This seems to show an eager crowd watching a dowsers search for water. ''
The complete article may be found in the address,
http://www-sop.inria.fr/agos-sophia/.../dowsdean.html
Digman.

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Digman....Lots of experts on everything.... I can look at a 6000 year old picture and guess just like they do...Art

[gollum]

Hey Digman,

I read that one. Wish it was illustrated. I have looked at several of the Tassili Cave Paintings, and can't see it. The Tassili National Park doesn't seem to recognize any of the cave paintings as described.

Thanks,

Mike

[digman]

It seems that I have to find out myself !!!
Thanks
Digman.

[Sandsted]

I'm not saying anything for sure, but if creation was about 4,000 B.C. that would be 6,000 years ago, not 4.

No, there is not 4.5 billion years, theres no million years, theres no hundreds of thousands...I can say that for sure.

[gollum]

Sandsted,

First, you contradict your own statement within 1 sentence! Reread your quote:

I'm not saying anything for sure, but if creation was about 4,000 B.C. that would be 6,000 years ago, not 4.

No, there is not 4.5 billion years, theres no million years, theres no hundreds of thousands...I can say that for sure.

CHINESE WRITTEN RECORDS GO BACK TO 1800BC! That's 3800 years ago! Their verbal records go back many more. So I will say again, "Explain to me how we went from Adam and Eve to all the people in all the nations in about 6 generations (35 years per generation, about 200 years)? Especially when you have people in the Old Testament living several hundred years?!? Your categorical statement looks a little shakey now!

You are entitled to your OPINION, but when you state categorically something that you can IN NO WAY know for sure, you automatically put yourself in a position where you can't allow yourself to be proven wrong (even if it is obvious). If you use phrases like "I believe ....", or "In my opinion.....", you don't sound quite so insane.

I won't crap on your religion, but you say you know for a fact something that 95% of the world does not believe. If there was any way for you to know it for a fact, then most of the world would agree with you.

I have my own beliefs about creation and evolution, but I can't say they are facts, because there is no factual record for those times. All they are is supposition (and faith), just like your beliefs.

Mike

[Cannonman17]

The earth is flat... that's all I have to say.

[Sandsted]

Tell me, how did you date those Chinese documents? Did they have the date written on it? "...1,800 B.C." I think not, so how can you so confidently say they are that old? I did contradict myself, but I meant I wasn't saying anything totally forsure on my research now, but I can say that there is no billions, millions, hundreds of thousands of years.

You have no evidence to support your theory that the earth is so old.

And how do you keep coming up with 200 years? I think you are confusing yourself. 6,000 years ago, not 4,000. 4,000 B.C. would be 6,006 years ago.

[gollum]

The Chinese have CONTINUOUS WRITTEN RECORDS. That means NO BREAKS. We know how long each emperor lived, and when they died.They were able to do many things long before they were thought of in the West.

Here's one I was saving, but now seems the right time to bring them out. Let's not forget the Egyptians! We have written records of when the Romans were ruling Egypt. We know when that was. The Egyptians have Dynastic Records going back to 3050 B.C. We KNOW these records to be accurate, because the Egyptians were sticklers for details. Little things like, how long each Pharoh ruled, and when they died, and who succeeded them. Egyptian records go back even further. Read the following website (hint, the Scorpion King wasn't really part scorpion. He was just born under the constellation Scorpio):

http://www.crystalinks.com/egyptdynasties.html

and

http://www.crystalinks.com/predynasticegypt.html

OK. My bad I see what you are saying now. OK. Lets add another 2000 years into the mix. Ask youself this: How much, in the last 2000 years, has the human race changed? We have facts to support finding a categorical answer to that question. There are paintings from before the time of Christ. We know what men looked like in 1A.D. He looked a just like men living today (although a little shorter on average)!

That's still my basic point. If mankind hasn't really changed any in the last 2000 years, why would we think that we went from Adam and Eve to all the people in all the nations in 2200 years? Do you really believe in the tower of Babel Story? Do you really believe that mankind went from one race to all the races in the world, and developed all the languages in the world, in 2200 yers? Still shaky, and absolutely mistaken when you throw Egypt into the mix!

Best
Mike

[digman]

Sandsted, go to Google, type ''age of earth'' and see the rest yourself !!!
4,5 billion years is 4.500.000.000 years, and although this is approximate, it is + or - 50.000.000 years (thats 50 million).
Digman.

P.S. Cannonman, if its flat... is it like a big coin ? We stand on heads or on tails ?