Questions for the Experts

[aarthrj3811]

Since we have so many smart, and expert Treasure Hunters telling us how to Dowse I have a few Questions for the experts. Could I please get a difinition for The Ideomotor Effects and where to find it. Could you experts please post photo's of what you have found at a depth of 2 foot or more. Could you please tell me how to search a 1 square mile area for targets over 2 foot deep. What equipment would you use? I also would like to hear about any large treasure finds and how it was located..Are any of you people real Treasure Hunters ..On the Ideomotor Effects...I would like a web site other than Randi's, Carls or the Skeptics Dictionary for the Definition of the ideomotor effects...Art

[oldman]

Ideomotor is a guy who leaves his car running while leaving it parked for a long period at the price of gas today. Trying to make a Jke. Bill

[Carl-NC]

Could I please get a difinition for The Ideomotor Effects and where to find it.

Did you try looking it up?

[aarthrj3811]

I have looked it up...I have ask the skeptics 50 times for a difeniation that I can find...I get no answer.

[Carl-NC]

If you've looked it up, then what did you find?

More specifically, what definitions are listed in American Heritage, Merriam-Webster, and Wikipedia?

Yes, please post the definitions.

- Carl

[aarthrj3811]

Carl can't answer me...Whos next...or is it just that all your words mean nothing and you have no idea how to hunt for treasure

[Carl-NC]

I can answer you... but so can you. I don't understand why you can't just look up the definition, instead of asking someone else to do it for you.

So... can you do it?

[aarthrj3811]

Gee Carl..You and Randi throw words around like they are something special. Then the rest of your cohorts twist and spin the words. I keep hearing words like double blind tests, random guessing, chance guessing laws, paranormal, Ideomotor effects and ideomotor response. Look in a few dictionary's because some of these on-line dictionary's will let you write your own difinition........

[Carl-NC]

If you believe we've just made up all this stuff, then why would you ask me to post definitions? Would you believe anything I post? If you did a little research, you would find out that these concepts are mainstream science.

Can you elaborate on what you feel has been twisted and spun?

- Carl

[aarthrj3811]

Since we have so many smart, and expert Treasure Hunters telling us how to Dowse I have a few Questions for the experts. Could I please get a difinition for The Ideomotor Effects and where to find it. Could you experts please post photo's of what you have found at a depth of 2 foot or more. Could you please tell me how to search a 1 square mile area for targets over 2 foot deep. What equipment would you use? I also would like to hear about any large treasure finds and how it was located..Are any of you people real Treasure Hunters ..On the Ideomotor Effects...I would like a web site other than Randi's, Carls or the Skeptics Dictionary for the Definition of the ideomotor effects...Art

No one has an answer for Ideomortor Effects. No one seems to have found anything over two feet deep. No one knows how to search 1 square mile for a target buried at 2 feet. No one has found a large target. No one is a treasure hunter....I guess I was wrong about the smart experts

[Captain Trips]

The Ideomotor Effect is this: all parts of your body are constantly in motion, even if it is so slight that you don't notice it. These motions can be and actually are effected by subconscious control from the brain. One is usually never aware of these control impulses, but they are there. Therefore, it is possible to control the actions of dowsing rods/sticks without being aware of doing so. (Same thing applies for hand-held pendulums, or the pointer on a Ouija board.)

There you go, a simple definition. Not taken from ANY web site, but from basic biology education, the kind I got in high school. And if you think it doesn't work that way, think of surgeons. Surgery is extremely tiring for a surgeon because (s)he is working very hard to restrain the ideomotor motions of his/her hands.

What have I found at 2 feet or more depths? Nothing -- I use an Ace 250 which doesn't have that kind of depth.

How would I search a 1 square mile area? With a large coil metal detector, one which has good ground penetration (sufficient to whatever depth I wish to scan), I would lay out a grid pattern and scan each section of the grid thoroughly. Hey, I never said it would be done quickly. But I would be doing it in a manner that has been proven to have success.

[aarthrj3811]

Therefore, it is possible to control the actions of dowsing rods/sticks without being aware of doing so. (Same thing applies for hand-held pendulums, or the pointer on a Ouija board.)

I agree with that statement.I also can see no reason why people who choose to dowse using this method are called names.....If they locate what they are looking for and are happy with their results who cares. I know some guys who use this method and they are very good.

I also belief that the sub-concsious mind can be trained to respond the way you want it to. I found 43 sites that state that fact and a lot of tips on how to do it. I have posted how to find out that objects emit something. I have posted where and how to find these emissions from objects.

Good search plan because if you don't research, grid to make sure you covered it all your wasting your time....Thanks Art

[Sandsted]

Do any of the dowsers here know that pictures hold information and you can dowse directly off them?

Like the first artifact I ever found, my carved up organic stone, I sent a photo of it to my elderly dowsing friend and he told me what it was off the picture. This was a very long time ago and at that time I didn't know you could do anything like that and it blew my mind. But you may note that a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy, and so forth will decrease each time you copy it. Just like the photo decreases in clarity so does the information it holds, but it will record the date that it was copied. I found that out this morning when dowsing on a photo of a guy in 1889 that is distantly related to my great great great uncle...or something like that. And I got reactions to 1998, 1960..something, different dates 1903 and the last 1888 or 9 and I believe that would be the original, I checked diffirent information about him and he came to America in 1882.

Anyway, this is the same concept of map dowsing but I consider it a slight variation that is quite interesting.

The use of sensor boards like I do is distantly related to the concept of map dowsing also.

Anyway, my definition of the ideomotor effect or whatever you call it is the same as Dell's. I know that there are still dowsers out there that believe the rod moves because of spirits, aliens, or telecinesis, or whatever.

[Captain Trips]

Therefore, it is possible to control the actions of dowsing rods/sticks without being aware of doing so. (Same thing applies for hand-held pendulums, or the pointer on a Ouija board.)

I agree with that statement.I also can see no reason why people who choose to dowse using this method are called names.....If they locate what they are looking for and are happy with their results who cares. I know some guys who use this method and they are very good.

I also belief that the sub-concsious mind can be trained to respond the way you want it to. I found 43 sites that state that fact and a lot of tips on how to do it. I have posted how to find out that objects emit something. I have posted where and how to find these emissions from objects.

I was just trying to give a clear definition of "ideomotor response." It wasn't my intention to say one way or another whether this works for dowsing, just to explain why rods move when held in the hand. It could be that the sub-conscious control is what powers dowsing, but I'm not speaking to that. The question was "what is ideomotor response" and not "does it contradict dowsing."

The whole thing about the ideomotor response is that this is why it is necessary to use a double-blind test to prove dowsing works. If there are any subconscious clues available to the dowser, they will come through in the ideomotor response. It is essential that any possible such clues be removed from the testing arena, or the test is invalidated because the rods can be moved by these subconscious clues, through the ideomotor response.

As to my stated search method, well, let's just assume all research had been done before deciding on the actual square mile to search. Once we have determined that there is something metallic of interest somewhere in that square mile, my search method is guaranteed to work. If it is non-metallic, well, the grid method still works, only using shovels instead of metal detectors. That's how archeologists found Pompeii, after all!

[aarthrj3811]

The whole thing about the ideomotor response is that this is why it is necessary to use a double-blind test to prove dowsing works.

This is where you are wrong.....What I get from this statement is that ideomotor response is some kind of bad thing. Is the ideomotor response not a function of the sub-conscious mind. Can the sub-conscious mind be trained? The experts say Yes. Keep reading those web sites and you will never learn...Art

[Sandsted]

"The whole thing about the ideomotor response is that this is why it is necessary to use a double-blind test to prove dowsing works. If there are any subconscious clues available to the dowser, they will come through in the ideomotor response. It is essential that any possible such clues be removed from the testing arena, or the test is invalidated because the rods can be moved by these subconscious clues, through the ideomotor response."

Why is it so neccessary to have a double blind test? If I were to locate some stupid coin under a plat for you because of the "subconscious clues" give by you then wouldn't that out of the ordinary? Or would I have to state that I can only find an object by "reading your mind".

[oldman]

A picture is worth a thousand words is the old saying and it is still true today!!!!! Bill

[aarthrj3811]

Many parts of Driving a car becomes an Ideomotor Response after the Sub-conscious mind is trained. That's the way the human body functions. Ideomotor is real simple---It is an IDEA...You can react to an idea or not... Think about what these people are telling us. You have no control of you mind?

Main Entry: ideo·mo·tor
Pronunciation: "I-dE-&-'mO-t&r, "i-
Function: adjective
Etymology: International Scientific Vocabulary
: not reflex but motivated by an idea <ideomotor muscular activity>

[Captain Trips]

"The whole thing about the ideomotor response is that this is why it is necessary to use a double-blind test to prove dowsing works. If there are any subconscious clues available to the dowser, they will come through in the ideomotor response. It is essential that any possible such clues be removed from the testing arena, or the test is invalidated because the rods can be moved by these subconscious clues, through the ideomotor response."

Why is it so neccessary to have a double blind test? If I were to locate some stupid coin under a plat for you because of the "subconscious clues" give by you then wouldn't that out of the ordinary? Or would I have to state that I can only find an object by "reading your mind".

No, a double blind test is necessary because, if I hid the coin and you were dowsing while I was within sight, you might see me have a type of "aha, he's over the coin now" look on my face, and if you were to pick up on that, even subconsciously, it could come through your dowsing device via the ideomoter response. A double blind test would make sure that no one who knows where the coin was would be able to transmit (even without knowing it) any clues to you. That's all.

Insisting on double blind conditions in no way is intended to call anyone a liar. It is intended solely to remove any possible "other explainations" to the phenomenon being demonstrated. Anyone who can do what they claim they can do should in no way be offended by a request to perform in a double-blind study.

[Captain Trips]

Many parts of Driving a car becomes an Ideomotor Response after the Sub-conscious mind is trained. That's the way the human body functions. Ideomotor is real simple---It is an IDEA...You can react to an idea or not... Think about what these people are telling us. You have no control of you mind?

Yes, much of driving a car can be considered "training the subconscious" and such training can come through via the ideomotor response. No one is denying the usefulness of ideomotor responses. But you are wrong that the ideomotor response is an "idea." It is more of a "reflex." Controlling reflexes is very difficult.

As to the question of "you have no control of your mind?" The answer really is "No, you DON'T have control of your mind, at least not to the amount you think you do." There is a hell of a lot that goes on in your mind that you are not even aware of, let alone have any control over. This is a basic truth of human psychology. Sorry to burst your bubble on that, but it's true -- your mind controls you far more than you control your mind! And it is very easy to fool the mind. Just think of any optical illusion you have seen.