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  1. #1
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,200
    2344 times

    Discuss the so called para-nornal, which includes dowsing, unusual talents etc.

    Lades and gentlemen: I suggest that we discuss these things with an open inquiring mind, no ridicule which serves no scientific purpose, only shows what a low opinion one has of themselves and accomplishes nothing. So talk freely your unusual talents, experiences or whatever.

    I will start it off with some simple experiments that I have performed in the study of the para-normal.

    Case #1 Hypnosis used in regards to hyper-sensitizing a normal person to apparently have supra normal abilities.

    The first experiment was with gentman. Under deep hypnosis it was suggested that he had extremely sensitive fingers which were able to detect normally impossible things. He was given a deck of cards face down. He was asked to turn them over one at a time, weighing them to detect the difference in weight between a face card and low one, say up to #3.. by the different amounts of printer's ink.

    When he had finished he was given a post hypnotic suggestion that he would remember the difference between a high card and a low card by the difference in weight.due to the difference in ink between a face card and a low one. an average of several test runs gave him 70% correct. Fascinating no?

    I would like to caution you in that hypnosis does not give you anything that you don't have normally, it only intensifies it.

    Comments?

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  2. #2
    Mike(Mont)

    Re: Discuss the so called para-nornal, which includes dowsing, unusual talents etc.

    Judy, that doesn't explain how some people are helplessly pessimistic and others have been able to "get over it". It's almost as if some people seek out the down side, even pride themself for doing so. It's a real cop-out. Yes, it's true that certain traumatic experiences in childhood can be repressed and remain in the subconscious. One of the good things that came out of the psychedelic era was people started to look inside themself and realize their phoniness. There are lots of clearing books available but I have to believe that many are afraid of what they might find, and don't care anyway. It's a self-serving, egotistical attitude, and a person can't learn to dowse like that. The hidden psychological blocks continue to accumulate, a snowball effect, unless a person does something about it. The first step is become aware that this is even happening and I doubt many people can do this on their own. Can't just say I'm not going to have any more hidden psychological blocks without first learning what they are. That's where the clearing books come in. "Clearing The Way to Higher Consciousness" by Frank Jordan is a good one.

  3. #3
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,200
    2344 times

    Re: Discuss the so called para-nornal, which includes dowsing, unusual talents etc.

    HJi B & B: You are quite correct. We see and enjoy many things as children which as we grow older, are told / taught that this is just imagination and to live in the real world of no Santa Claus. Most children for example, have no pre-established controls by their elders that dowsing is impossible and tend to do very good, especially if they regard it as wonderful game.

    As time goes by they start receiving constantly re-enforced data that this is just an impossible idea, equated to kiddie stuff, not real, not acceptable in real life for one reason or another, so they gradually, subconsciously, reject it and soon are unable to do it, it then remains dormant.. Many find an occasional article or report from a friend that has discovered that dowsing, for example, does exist. That it is a natural function of humans, and so try dowsing cautiously. To their surprise they find that indeed it does work.

    What many do not realize is that like any other function of the human, such as co-ordinating the eyes for binocular vision which is necessary for depth perception, leaning to grasp things or even to walk does take time.

    If one would invest the same amount of study and training for dowsing, or any of the other unknown functions, we wold live in a different world. Also many have physical and mental variations, so we will differ in our abilities to excel.

    This also applies to many other so called para-normal abilities which have been submerged .. Many of these latent abilities can be brought out by suggestion or hypnosis, and conversely eliminated by negative suggestion.

    Have you ever heard of any team winning after being told over and over that they cannot win?

    As for learning ability, this is very easily established. Just look at how a human is brought up. If it is in an academic type of atmosphere, then he will naturally gravitate towards this type of life, not because he is particularly brilliant, but though simple conditioning psychology. Conversely this is equally applicable of other types of life styles. This has no bearing on IQ, which is comletely independent..

    The human is saturated with undreamed of levels of unknown abilities locked into the sub-conscious. This is where Hypnosis is valuable in effectively bringing them out to be observed and possibly trained.

    As we go on I will talk of experiments etc., yes, anecdotal data. Since there is no other practical way. However you are encouraged to duplicate them where feasible .

    K Judy as you see, you are 100% correct.

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  4. #4
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,200
    2344 times

    Re: Discuss the so called para-nornal, which includes dowsing, unusual talents etc.

    [=Mike(Mont) ]
    Judy, that doesn't explain how some people are helplessly pessimistic and others have been able to "get over it". It's almost as if some people seek out the down side, even pride themself for doing so. It's a real cop-out. Yes, it's true that certain traumatic experiences in childhood can be repressed and remain in the subconscious. One of the good things that came out of the psychedelic era was people started to look inside themself and realize their phoniness. There are lots of clearing books available but I have to believe that many are afraid of what they might find, and don't care
    ****************

    Hi MIke right, but remember we are not from the same mould, nor are we raised in the same enviroment. No two humans are exactly alike. Our initial environments and attitudes surrounding us have a tremendous effect in forming our social and psychological behavior, this why Psychiatrist make so much money.

    Those books are wonderful self help sources.

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  5. #5
    Mike(Mont)

    Re: Discuss the so called para-nornal, which includes dowsing, unusual talents etc.

    Judy, I'm not talking about scientists, I'm talking about debunkers who want people to believe that they are scientists. I've read the same thing that most scientists are not atheist, but debunkers and scientists are not the same thing by any means. So even their name is a lie.

  6. #6
    Mike(Mont)

    Re: Discuss the so called para-nornal, which includes dowsing, unusual talents etc.

    Seeing how I haven't experimented with it I guess I shouldn't say anything. However, I have read that people who have been hypnotized by another person maintain some sort of "foreign field influence". Energy fields in the accupuncture meridians and receptors (center of the forehead and also corresponding points at the back of the head) that are out of resonance with our own (different wavelength). A mass of seething, conflicting energies. This can also occur through the use of magnets or magnet healing.

  7. #7
    Mike(Mont)

    Re: Discuss the so called para-nornal, which includes dowsing, unusual talents etc.

    I'm sure everyone knows how I have been harping about emotions, how emotions, positive or negative, create the link to the subconscious. In the book Secret Life of Plants Marcel Vogel talks about how he made the emotional connection between himself and the plants. Many times I have picked up telepathic messages from my closest sister, a year older than I but not any from my other siblings.

    Speaking of people in a comatose state, I have read you must be very careful what you say or think around them. In that state, the five senses are not operational and there is no need for the normal filtering, so the emotional energy is easily transferred.

    Tests for telepathy have shown that although ten out of a group of twelve people did not consciously pick up the message (the other two got the message), the brain wave monitors showed they all had the same activity at the exact time the message was sent. In other words, they filtered it out. I guess I would call it ignorance.

    In India people say that in order to meditate you must be in a joyful state of mind. Darn good reason not to read the debunkers crud around here. Here again, you see it's the positive emotions that are beneficial to dowsing and why some people just don't get it.

  8. #8
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,200
    2344 times

    Re: Discuss the so called para-nornal, which includes dowsing, unusual talents etc.

    HI B & B what you experienced is more common than most realize. Every one has had a telepathic occurrence , but most try to rationalize it - "co-incidence"- so it just dies on the vine. In my case my mother has known, at the same time when something serious has occurred to me, every time that I have had an aircraft accident or was shot she ended up telling "me" all about it ??. Sometimes I have wondered what else she knew -- blushing.

    As for you, you have devastated me sniff "a husband" sigh No wonder you don't need any tolling bait.

    We will get into this occurrence of yours in a bit gal. What you experienced is fascinating, but not uncommon., just not often reported.

    You are correct in that we all practice self suggestion more than we realize, generally un-aware of it. Deliberate self-hypnosis is another thing. Ii is fascinating to think that the brain can actually analyze and reprogram itself or any function easily.. In this, one can readily control the blood pressure and heart beat etc. .

    I used this when, for some unknown reason, my heat beat dropped to 20 -30. the doctor was amazed that I had not died or suffered any physiological damage, But it took three days of self hypnosis to restore it to a normal of 60 where it has remained today.

    We are going to have a true non-biased intelligent series of talks in here.
    *

    Mike you must understand that hypnotizing some one does not mean that you are forcing them to do your will, on the contrary it is a matter of leading them to hypnotize themselves. under your suggestions. It is never a question of will power. As for someone to state 'I cannot be hypnotized, I have too much will power " sorry charlie, to the contrary, the more intelligent one is, the more easily that person is to hypnotize.

    To date, the only person that I have never been able to hypnotize was my father, and the answer to that is simple basic Psychology.

    So I wonder about this energy that you mentioned?

    As time goes on I will show you how to induce basic self-hypnosis (hyper self concentration) so that you can duplicate many of the experiments that I did. Perhaps we can incorporate it into studying dowsing.

    Tropical Tramp



    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  9. #9
    Mike(Mont)

    Re: Discuss the so called para-nornal, which includes dowsing, unusual talents etc.

    Tramp, I tried getting hypnotized at a county fair, but the guy cut me loose. I really wanted to. Maybe I should have resisted as you say. The guy gave them the 'Hot Shoe" suggestion and later when he said "Hot shoe!" they went crazy to get their shoe off. He picked up a shoe and pretended like it was a puppy, started petting it and gave it to a guy, then he said ah oh like it had wet on him. The guy threw the shoe down and started to wipe the urine off.

    I've read enough about it to know it can be done telepathically with a willing subject. But as far as the foreign field influence, I can only assume the author had experience in that matter saying it is totally detrimental and I am not interested in it or with magnets. One guy who posts here claimed magnets are important to his dowsing. He says he has been through several types of cancer. Another guy died from brain cancer. No thanks. Indiscriminate use of magnets is dangerous, and I suspect hypnosis the same, at least for dowsing. You need a clear mind and clear nose. The Science of Breath by Swani Rama has some helpful hints for clearing nasal passages. Most people, including scientists, don't have a clue about this science which has been around for thousands of years.

  10. #10
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,200
    2344 times

    Re: Discuss the so called para-nornal, which includes dowsing, unusual talents etc.

    Hi peeps: Hypnosis, particularly self Hyp---i, s a normal and in general a healthy thing. Like any thing it can be abused but this should not be used as a reason to avoid it
    .
    Hypnosis and hyper-suggestability are effectively the same in final results. I originally used hypnosis until I learned just how powerful hyper-suggestibility is, so I use it almost exclusively.in any para-normal tests/experiments..

    Since it IS so powerful, it becomes a major factor in sceptics giving a dowser, or any other paranormal test, an extremely unbalanced negative effect which cannot be overcome by most dowsers.

    I used it to teach my grandkids pain control in 15 minutes. In one case one of them was able to be quite relaxed and comfortable while being sutured due to a kiddie accident.

    It has been proven to be capable of affective use in major operations. In fact in ww-2 it was used by British Doctors in POW of war camps to perform amputations and abdominal operations when nothing was available.

    Experiment with yourself, easy to do..

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  11. #11
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,200
    2344 times

    Re: Discuss the so called para-nornal, which includes dowsing, unusual talents etc.

    HI

    A simple little thing that you can quickly train yourself to do, is to go to a paint store and obtain paint chips of the primary colors as near the same as possible.

    At home place them under a cover of some type so that you cannot see them, then shuffle them several times. Next try to identify them by a sticky or rough feeling while "lightly" stroking them while still hidden. Attempt to identify which color by difference in feel. You will soon be able to id them 100% by tactile feel.

    Then try this with deck of playing cards. Red/ Black.

    Next we will get a little more involved.

    Tropical Tramp

    This is a simple factor in the para-normal field.
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  12. #12
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,200
    2344 times

    Re: Discuss the so called para-nornal, which includes dowsing, unusual talents etc.

    HI, one reason that I tend to question the status quo of science is in a series of experiments with my eyes

    I have always been told that as we age, that we lose the ability to focus our eyes due to the hardening of the lens. I saw people getting glasses which apparently bothered them a bit at first. They were told to relax, that they would soon become used to them, and so it happened, They could see quite clearly with the glasses ---for a while.

    Then a return trip indicated a stronger pair of glasses, again the same routine, then again, then again etc. etc. etc. The glasses had not changed , so what was the reason for a need to change the glasses? The eye was supposedly incapable of changing.

    Research turned up the theory that the lens as a focusing factor of the eye, was only effective during the formative stages of life, that gradually after a period of years it developed it's final curvature. At this point the eye converted to focusing exactly as a camera does, by controlling the elongated shape of the eyeball with especially developed muscles which do just this. Since it made a completely logical statement against the Status Quo, I decided to experiment.

    I purchased a no of gradually increasing power glasses, At first I very uncomfortable, but then, slowly as i became used to it, I found that I could no longer see clearly without them. After a time this occurred again with them, so the next step up was needed. This continued up to the coke bottle lens, then I gradually went in reverse, Each time it was accompanied with discomfort, but eventually I ended up with no glasses again and with perfect sight.

    This obviously flies in the face of conventional science. So the seed of unconformity was sown. The payoff was when I developed 3 Cancers and decided to do my own research which culminated with my refusing conventional treatment. I treated myself, and right or wrong, I no longer have the slightest trace of cancer.
    Monday I was officially informed that I had had a miraculous remission, hmmm.

    Since the first happy announcement on my Birthday that I had advanced cancer, I probably have perhaps
    1000+ hrs of study on the physiology and yes, psychology of cancer. I have read every bit of information available from medical papers to weird alternate treatments.

    As we go along, if sufficiently people are actually interested, i will show why I do not blindly believe in conventional science, including their present assessment on dowsing, as well as many other things.. I will show by repeatable experiments, which you personally can do, things that will fly in the face of present scientific shibboleths.


    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  13. #13
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,200
    2344 times

    Re: Discuss the so called para-nornal, which includes dowsing, unusual talents etc.

    HI: It has been suggested that you cannot have good sight unless you are mentally relaxed. A crude check is to cover your eyes and imagine a complete flat black. The difference between a flat black and what you see is an indication how relaxed you are mentally and indicative of your ability to see without forcing.

    Seeing should never be a forced deal, whenever you do this you will aways have defective vision.

    If nervousness or simple tension can effect your vision, think of how it must effect a dowser under pressure and strain. This is an excellent example why no pure guessing type of test is viable without taking this into account. This is one of Randi's main defenses. the dowser is surrounded by openly visible sceptics in a highly visable set up and under extreme pressure, practically no one can do his or her thing successfully.

    A cute bit of quite effective eye exercise can be found at

    www.asseenontvnetwork.com/eyeq/?cid=128320.

    Click on the Demo "click here " and have fun. It is really an excellent feature & exercise

    Tropical ?Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  14. #14
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,200
    2344 times

    Re: Discuss the so called para-nornal, which includes dowsing, unusual talents etc.

    That is a fascinating Article, lot's of very very interestig data. I will have to read it again.

    Gracias love.

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  15. #15
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,200
    2344 times

    Re: Discuss the so called para-nornal, which includes dowsing, unusual talents etc.

    I have tons of other experiments and data, but no-one seems to want to participate Most fly in the face of convention.

    Tropical Tramp
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

 

 
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