Spanish Dip Needles - Miners Compass

[dowser 501]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

Art, in reference to your post #9 the whole of this thread is on the wrong track. With real time dowsing such an irregular event, all these different inventions are attempts to create dowsing conditions. If by some chance a product for dowsing was put on the market at a time when dowsing conditions prevailed, the name of that product would for many years have a reputation that it did not deserve, and as dowsing conditions waned, so would the sales of these dowsing toys.

Sometime in the (hopefully) near future if dowsing conditions reappear, owners of these useless dowsing gadgets will again swear by them, ( too many to name) although a pair of coat hangers at that moment in time would also be working with the same proficiency.

There is only one item that can be used in dowsing. Your brain.

Max

 

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[Oroblanco]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

Hi Max.

If a person were proficient enough at dowsing to be able to locate rich gold placers, silver veins, etc then you are right, such a device as a Spanish dip-needle would be of no need; however in the case of those who are not THAT proficient at dowsing treasures, mineral veins, then a tool such as a magnetic dip-needle would be of great use.

I personally don't have the proficiency in dowsing for treasures or mineral veins which would lead to a certain success, which is one reason why I use every tool available to me. I for one, would have use for such an instrument as a Spanish dip-needle.

Max I have to ask, why would you choose not to use any additional tools that might be of service to you? Just curious, if it is just a personal preference or your experience, that you prefer one method of locating treasures/mineral veins to the exclusion of others (such as dip-needles, etc) or another reason? Thank you in advance.

Art wrote:

Now Roy..lets try a few things with you. Some of this I will be assuming so let me know if I am wrong....Take some masking tape and make a large X on the floor running in the cardinal directions. Put some gold or silver in the center of the X. Now walk toward the target along the masking tape. Did the rods close before, after or when your foot was on the target. The next thing to try is to walk a square pattern using the X as a guide about 3 feet from the target. What did the rods do? The next step is to see if you can discriminate the gold from the silver. Put the silver target in the center and more silver in your hand along with the rod handle. Now walk the square again and note where the rods cross...Now replace the target with some gold and walk the square with the silver in your hand. Did the rods stay open or did they close? There are two ways to do this experiment...You can think hard about the target or occupy your mind with thoughts of a movie or anything else...This experiment is to give you some information about Dowsing not to prove anything to anyone else...Art

OK Art I did some experimenting, using silver as I have a few silver coins handy including the dollar. I first tried it indoors but we have water pipes and electrical wiring which seems to result in a "hit" almost anywhere inside, so went outdoors where I KNOW there are no water pipes or power lines. I got a 'hit' about six feet from a half dollar, which is apparently a water hit at some depth (which is good news in a way) because the 'hit' remains in that site even if the coin is moved or not even there. I got zero reaction from any of the coins, (the rods stayed pointing straight ahead, except if I went anywhere near that water 'hit' then they would point toward it) in fact the only 'hit' seems to be that spot where there is water at depth. I guess that either I cannot dowse silver (will have to give gold a try some time) or it is a bad spot, or just not right somehow. It was a fun experiment though! I will give it another try, using a group of silver coins (a jar full) next time, maybe I am just not 'sensitive' enough to pick up a single coin.

Oroblanco

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

Sorry that didn't work but if you had not tried you would never know. The only thing I can think of is to take three pennies and put one in each hand with the rod handles and step on the other penny or tape one penny to each rod tip and try it....Art

 

[dowser 501]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

Orblanco, A damn good question.The reason I would not use anything else but dowsing rods when dowsing time is here is that have you tried to run water through a blocked pipe, or use a tack hammer for punching in a three inch nail? Sheer useless toys for the desperate.
The day I found I could dowse I sold my metal detector. Max

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

Dang, Art - I FORGOT to STEP on any of the coins. I have to do it over. I was going to try again anyway, it IS fun!

Max, thank you for the insight. I don't know if I would go so far as to call metal detectors, magnetometers, etc "useless toys for the desperate" - in fact my greatest success in prospecting involved only the good old steel gold pan, and my metal detector has re-paid me several times over; I sure wouldn't call them "useless toys" for they are invaluable to ME. As for the "desperate" part, well that is a question of degree! "Gold Fever" is in-curable, only can "treat the symptoms"! I have to ask my friend Real de Tayopa, what the correct term for "silver fever" is - (hee hee!) I know a guy CAN come down with BOTH "diseases"!!!

Good luck and good hunting to you, hope you find the treasures that you seek.

Oroblanco

 

[dowser 501]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

Oro, the reason why I sold my metal detector is that it was rubbish and if I had purchased a better one, it would not go down to Jesuit gold which is in the 9 foot depth range. I am referring to black boxes hooked up to dowsing rods.

Am doing a dig very soon and am taking along a Metal detector for that last foot or so.One of my syndicate has one.
As a full dowser I know more than most what rubbish is selling for big bickies on the market.If any would work when my dowsing rod is non operative, I would morgage everything I own to have one. I repeat again . THEY ARE ALL JUNK> I feel better after getting that off my chest. Sorry Art. regards Max

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

Max, nine feet, boy that is going to be tough - I have dug my share of holes and when you get down that deep it is slow and tiring work, you can't even really toss the dirt out of the hole and end up putting it in buckets to haul out. Sure wish they made a detector that would go THAT deep though! Maybe some day, who knows?

Oroblanco

 

[gldhntr]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

quote from above '''''Once again, folks are confusing "Spanish Dip Needle", "Spanish Needles", and "Magnetic Dip Needle". These are 3 distinctly different devices. Of the 3, the Magntic Dip Needle is the one that Really Works, and can be bought off eBay for $50. I own 2 of them. A modern proton mag is much much much more sensitive.

- Carl'''''''''.............not confused carl, just posting info on here that actually would have a little value.......for far less than 3 thousand dollars...i use the aqua meter often as a way to search for known iron boxes/pots/buried metal/etc and be rather unnoticed while doing so...and to the poster that stated its all dowsing you are wrong...magnetics being the keyword.........g

 

[Carl-NC]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

..not confused carl, just posting info on here that actually would have a little value.......

"Of the 3, the Magnetic Dip Needle is the one that Really Works, and can be bought off eBay for $50."

The first info of value, is knowing the correct name for the device, so that it can be properly researched. The second info of value, is knowing where to buy it, and the expected price.

Up for any testing?

- Carl

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

The first info of value, is knowing the correct name for the device, so that it can be properly researched. The second info of value, is knowing where to buy it, and the expected price.

Hey Carl...The first information of value is if it works or not. This information can only come from people who have used the product. Treasure hunters are the ones that use the products and know a lot more than researchers....Art

 

[Carl-NC]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

OK, since the actual name of the device Oroblanco was interested in seems to be irrelevant, instead of calling it a "magnetic dip needle," let's call it a "radiodynamometer." I'm calling it a "radiodynamometer" simply because I make the rules, and this is what I want to call it.

Now Oroblanco can research "radiodynamometer" and see how it might be used to locate magnetic anomalies, and he can look around for places to buy a "radiodynamometer." When this turns out to be a dead end, then he can consider using the real name of the device, and perhaps make some progress in finding the information he wanted in the first place.

And the real name of the device is "bortavflartdurster." Because I said so.

- Carl

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

OK, since the actual name of the device Oroblanco was interested in seems to be irrelevant, instead of calling it a "magnetic dip needle," let's call it a "radiodynamometer." I'm calling it a "radiodynamometer" simply because I make the rules, and this is what I want to call it.

No Carl..The history books calls it a Spanish Dip Needle..Any one who knows anything about magnets will understand how it works. A Radiodynamometer is a simple jar with a alum disk hanging from a thin strand of rubber. The Spanish Dip Needle was used to find Gold. The Radiodynamometer was used to measure the emisions from objects....You can call these things anything that you want but that will not change the facts...They work....Art

 

[Carl-NC]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

No Carl..The history books calls it a Spanish Dip Needle..Any one who knows anything about magnets will understand how it works....You can call these things anything that you want but that will not change the facts...They work....

Here is a picture of a Spanish Dip Needle:



This is NOT the same thing as a magnetic dip needle. They are entirely different devices. And, no, the Spanish didn't really use Spanish Dip Needles to locate all their gold mines. The SDN was a late 19th century scam targeted at gold rushers. I can just imagine... "Finds gold 1/2 mile away! Get rich! Only $99!"

I know that some folks on this forum have a propensity for using incorrect names -- like radiodynamometer, Dr. Getz, and Dr. Doppler -- but I'm not one of them.

- Carl

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

Gee Carl...I have some photos to....One is a Radiodynamometer that you keep telling me is a Versorium..

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

Sorry Oroblanco, Mike, Max, OldBillinUT, arkhunter, SS and gldhntr....If Carl wants to argue with me he can start his own Thread...Art

 

[OldBillinUT]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

Man you guys had me going there with these pics LOL

Patented roasting sticks for the super ballpark 2 1/2 lb frankfurter

A Irish wishing jar

A local bar science demo that captures the spin demons from a sweater worn by a damsel ?


I think I may be coming down with cabinus fevoris maximus

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

Wow - didn't mean to stir up the sh-e-e-tstorm, my apologies! I was just curious about this old device, and have learned a good deal from your replies. I guess I ought to explain WHY I was curious about them to begin with.

Mrs Oro and I have a placer mine that is nearly all high-bank, tertiary channel that is capped with volcanic lava "dome" of very hard rock. The old-timers who worked this mine tunneled under the lava dome, hunting for pockets in the ancient riverbed and we did the same - some of the pockets, which lay atop a white clay "false bedrock" paid off very well. In every such pocket, we found a thick "lense" of black sands that held a good deal of placer gold. The lava dome is between ten to thirty feet thick on top of the ancient river bed, and flat enough to walk on - if a device like the Spanish dip-needle or magnetic dip needle etc were able to pin-point the location of the "lenses" of black sands, we could then direct our efforts in tunneling to those lenses, instead of "blind" digging and trusting to luck. We tried using a metal detector, but the detector can only "detect" a lense when it is less than one foot in from the surface, and the pockets are just too dis-continuous for that particular method to be of much benefit.

Then I found that article online about Jimmy Angel and his partner using a Spanish dip-needle that was able to detect a gold location on top of a mountain while flying over it, and thought, boy if it could pick up the iron-bearing sands from a plane, it would surely work through a couple dozen feet of rock and caliche. But when I saw one for sale for $3000, I decided I would tap into the wealth of knowledge and experience available here on T-net among the members, so started this thread.

So from what I have learned here, it looks like it would be worth buying one of the $50 models to take along the net time we head for our mine. If it did not work through the lava dome, at least I would only be out $50, instead of the $3000! Thank you all for the replies and information, I hope you all find the treasures that you seek.

Oroblanco

 

[OldBillinUT]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

Oro what you are doing makes sense to me for the same reason on the same kind of formation. Want to compare notes after we do the walkovers ?

It's going to be exciting to get out on that cap and check it out. Too bad we don't have eyes like a fish eh ?

 

[Carl-NC]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

The device pictured in the "Jimmy Angel" article is definitely a magnetic dip needle. The writer of the article is incorrect in calling it a Spanish dip needle. Anyway, yes, it might be useful for what you want, though I expect a black sand deposit at 30 feet deep would have to be rather larger for this method. Four Darley MDNs recently sold on eBay for $24-$38, so it's dirt cheap to try.

If you want to get serious, then invest in a good proton mag, or hire someone to do a mag survey of the property. Shouldn't be terribly expensive. Heck, you can build a proton mag for $100.

- Carl

 

[gldhntr]

Re: Spanish Dip Needles - Miner's Compass

there seemed to be the implication that i was confused which i am not...i posted about the aqua meter as i thought it would be a much cheaper alternative to be used for locating buried metals, not because i thought it was spanish, chinese, or anything else...... it works on the magnetic principal and i have posted such...anyone wanting more info on it can read it here, from a history on the unit......anyone wanting to argue about it might as well argue with their self....as for testing carl, no, but i would suggest you hold on to my $ 25000.00 as i will come for it one day...........todd

The old adage about necessity being the mother of invention is exemplified by the invention story for the Aqua Locator. Its chief inventor, Othmar W. Pies (William H. Middendorf and Carl F. Everet, Jr. were co-inventors), worked for years in public utilities serving the City of Cincinnati. Mr. Pies' duties included locating and maintaining water lines and meters. Accurate maps of underground utilities often were not created, were not maintained, or became useless because surface features changed.

Mr. Pies tired of using trial and error to find underground utilities; existing devices and methods were unreliable and cumbersome. He understood the magnetic principles at work in a standard compass, and the location technology of the day – "dipping needles." Dipping needles customarily were used to locate underground objects, but suffered from a number of practical deficiencies.

For example, dipping needles were prone to "needle spin," meaning that merely moving the device from place to place caused the pointing needle to rock back and forth rapidly. In addition, dipping needles suffered from an inherent ergonomic flaw: the needle face had a vertical orientation: the face was perpendicular to the ground, and the user could not comfortably view the needle's position while standing or walking.

The Aqua Locator inventors utilized existing technologies, but eliminated their primary shortcomings. The heart of the Aqua Locator is a functional compass, but with many refinements to facilitate the device's intended use. Needle spin was essentially eliminated using proprietary damping methods. The Aqua Locator employs mirrors to provide a horizontal reading face for the user. Further, the Aqua Locator includes a carrying case and strap, which permit the user to take readings comfortably while standing or walking.


Click to Enlarge
Mr. Pies filed a patent application for the Aqua Locator on October 18, 1954, and Patent No. 2,775,736 was granted on December 25, 1956. The patent was assigned to a partnership (Aqua Survey & Instrument Company), and production of the Aqua Locator began in Cincinnati.

From its inception, the Aqua Locator assembly process required hand craftsmanship and meticulous attention to detail, including precise calibration of every unit for its intended geographical destination before shipping. That old-world approach to craftsmanship, including most of the original tooling created for the Aqua Locator, continues to the present day even though ownership has changed and production facilities are now located in Cedarville, Ohio.

The Aqua Locator requires little training to operate, uses no software (ergo no bugs, viruses, or upgrades), and does not require batteries. It operates in all temperatures, and comes with its own carrying case. In the era of ubiquitous electronics, the Aqua Locator's ingenuity and intelligent design still stand apart.