How Come Dowsers are Millionaires?

[Doubter in MD]

Based on some of the responses there seems to be some confusion regarding the definition of a double blind study.

So here is a definition...
-used to describe an experiment that is done so that neither the people who are doing the experiment nor the people who are the subjects of the experiments know which of the groups being studied is the control group and which is the test group.

 

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[aarthrj3811]

Gee Tom....Where have you been. We have had metal detector user who dowse with them post here. They claim they can locate deep targets using this method...

You Dowsers can do your own Double Blind test. Pick out six things to use to hide your target. Lay them out on the lawn or any place that you want. Now go into the house. Have a friend or wife take the target out and put it under one of the covers. Then they go to the door that you are not going to use and knock. You go outside and find the target. Go back inside and do it over and over. I use half’s of plastic Easter eggs for my covers....Art

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

You need your eyes when dowsing to acknowledge the signals given, closing your eyes just delays this. Unless you create some other way intemperate the signals. Sure the rods will more than likely do what they do regardless, but without interpretation from the human brain they are only rods in your hand moving around. Im agreeing with you that it could work regardless of sight but I don't believe this is enough evidence to disprove sight has anything to do with it..

Remember, I'm not looking for treasure. A contractor told me he thought I was spinning rods, so I had him put blindfold on me walk me around in circles and s turns so no way for me to know how many steps to go, had him point me in the direction of previous locate and I located cable blindfolded in exact same location.. I told him to tell me when the two wires point directly at each other..

 

[Doubter in MD]

So the observers won't know who is a dowser and who isn't. And the Dowsers won't know who is a dowser and who isn't.

Perhaps Tom in CA means something different by the double blind test. I'm not sure.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Gee Tom....Where have you been. We have had metal detector user who dowse with them post here. They claim they can locate deep targets using this method...

You Dowsers can do your own Double Blind test. Pick out six things to use to hide your target. Lay them out on the lawn or any place that you want. Now go into the house. Have a friend or wife take the target out and put it under one of the covers. Then they go to the door that you are not going to use and knock. You go outside and find the target. Go back inside and do it over and over. I use half’s of plastic Easter eggs for my covers....Art

Art, you (and TH'rs) stated skills would be PERFECT if they performed as you each say. And if you allowed yourselves to be tested. I can't help but think it would put the matter to rest. I know it would put MY skepticism to rest anyhow, that's for sure.

But alas, each of you says you won't be tested, have nothing prove, etc....

However, you've (Art and digger) have given some links to studies purporting to have such test evidence. Right ? So if you guys won't agree to be tested, then can those links be looked at as evidence to dowsing's effectiveness?

Art: If you could perform the feat your saying , then basically you WOULD have passed this test. Because it looks to be the exact same sort of "item hidden under a cup" type test.



It's a shame then that you weren't there being tested. Because it would have shaken the skeptic's world by the gonads!

 

[aarthrj3811]

I am perfectly happy with my Dowsing. There are so many Dowsers here that your fighting a losing battle. I don’t need to prove anything to anyone but myself...Art

 

[Gold Maven]

The outcome was striking. An overall success rate of 96% (by dowsers) was achieved in 691 drillings in Sri Lanka. Based on geological experience in that area, a success rate of 30-50% would be expected from conventional techniques alone.

Exactly. 30 to 50% would be expected. Expected means probably.....maybe......we think...not really test results.

Like a shooting match, where I shoot 5 bull's eyes, and then tell my competitor "based on your past shooting score's you lose".

I'm not against dowsing, I am just trying to learn something.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I am perfectly happy with my Dowsing. There are so many Dowsers here that your fighting a losing battle. I don’t need to prove anything to anyone but myself...Art

Art, And as was said in post #154, it isn't about "your dowsing skills". That's NOT what's in question. What I'm asking to analyze, is the links you've put forth, where you say dowsing was tested, by others, in the past.

You keep thinking it's questioning your ability. Read again and see. So do we have a gentleman's wager, or don't we ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom in ca.......Everything else aside.Just sitting here looking at the video. Could that guy have been chosen because there was another series of questions used to pick people from?

watching his expressions at the end, he does look confused. Like he can't figure out what just happened. If I was making TV I would pick the guy most likely to fail. If he would have passed, they would have said the show was rigged or he just got lucky.

He just fits the most ridiculous representation, or stereotype. I'm not saying I would know how to pick either though.lol

Of course he probably agreed to the test. I wonder if a part of that could be, wanting to prove it, so agree to things beyond the ability. who knows! Just trying to think of all possibilities.

If it is muscle reaction(?) related, then maybe stress, anxiety, has an effect too.

or this guy was just an imposter pd by tv. Or he couldn't do it at all!

Nitric, when the subject of Randi has come up in the past, your notion has been put forth many times. It goes along the lines of 1) "they don't let successful/good dowsers be tested" and 2) it's rigged by magic, slight-of-hand, etc... which CAUSES the dowsers to fail. 3) even if a dowser was successful, the show/Randi would dismiss the results, accuse the dowser of some trick, and refuse to pay, etc...

My answers to the above 3 claims, in the same order:

1) You'll notice that the Randi people (admittedly) don't accept challenges from any and all dowsers. They weed out and accept the challenge from ONLY those "at the top of their game". Ie.: ONLY those who are reknowned acknowledged representatives of the craft. So like in that video, for instance, notice the guy DOES INDEED have a list of credentials (is actually paid by respectable companies, etc...). As opposed to being some Joe-Blow billy-bob from anytown USA. So too is the other video from Randi's visit to Australia. The list of persons partaking of the test there was also a "Who's who" of top dowsers there (not just mere rookies).

Now ask yourself: Why do you think they do this ? TO AVOID THE VERY ACCUSATION YOU ARE MAKING HERE. But alas I guess it doesn't do much good. Because when someone (even the highly credentialed rep's failed), someone else is sure to come along and say "he wasn't qualified". Aaargghh.

2) When this "trickery" and "slight of hand" notion gets put forth, I repeatedly ask persons for examples of how this was possibly done. Eg.: magnets ? unseen threads? some way to move the targets under the cups in a way the audience can't see ? I'm totally open to suggestions as to the "magic" done to defeat the dowser. But as of yet, it's only claims. No one can seem to suggest HOW or WHAT "slight of hand" might be doing it to the poor dowsers.

3) If someone has an proof of a successful dowser passing the test, yet the Randi people refusing to pay, I would love to hear of it. Remember: The terms of the test have to be MUTUALLY agreed before hand. So you can BET YOUR BIPPY that any dowser with half a brain, is going to have had it all there agreed upon ahead of time, that if he does X, Y, Z, then he will a) get paid, and b) the information will go public. This is all in contract language, with the money held by a 3rd party escrow type entity.

If someone has proof to the contrary, I would love to hear it . Otherwise, just like #2, it's all just accusations that are way to easy to claim.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Art, And as was said in post #154, it isn't about "your dowsing skills". That's NOT what's in question. What I'm asking to analyze, is the links you've put forth, where you say dowsing was tested, by others, in the past.

Yes Dowsing has been tested in the past 8000 years. I was not there so I have to take the tests to be what happened. To this date I don’t know of any test that has been done that was a real Double Blind Test. To do a real test it would have to be done using Dowsers and none dowsers and not just one of each but many. The Betz report is the only one that comes close to being spot on.....Art

 

[aarthrj3811]

Now ask yourself: Why do you think they do this ? TO AVOID THE VERY ACCUSATION YOU ARE MAKING HERE. But alas I guess it doesn't do much good. Because when someone (even the highly credentialed rep's failed), someone else is sure to come along and say "he wasn't qualified". Aaargghh.

Gee. Do we know that?

2) When this "trickery" and "slight of hand" notion gets put forth, I repeatedly ask persons for examples of how this was possibly done. Eg.: magnets ? unseen threads? some way to move the targets under the cups in a way the audience can't see ? I'm totally open to suggestions as to the "magic" done to defeat the dowser. But as of yet, it's only claims. No one can seem to suggest HOW or WHAT "slight of hand" might be doing it to the poor dowsers.

Did you see the targets being placed? A simple bar magnet will keep the rods from closing. A VHF MFD will disrupt the natural signals and can be miles away from the site. Did you see the dowsers miss all the targets?

3) If someone has an proof of a successful dowser passing the test, yet the Randi people refusing to pay, I would love to hear of it. Remember: The terms of the test have to be MUTUALLY agreed before hand. So you can BET YOUR BIPPY that any dowser with half a brain, is going to have had it all there agreed upon ahead of time, that if he does X, Y, Z, then he will a) get paid, and b) the information will go public. This is all in contract language, with the money held by a 3rd party escrow type entity.

No one has taken the test in 20 years

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... The Betz report is the only one that comes close to being spot on.....Art

Ah perfect. Now we're getting somewhere. Ok, it sounds like you're saying that this "Betz report" is about the best a dowser can offer someone to analyze, which would be "test results" that show dowsing to be valid. Assuming I'm understanding you correctly, then:

Do we have a gentlemen's agreement, that if I study this report, and find alternative explanations at how the positive results could have happened (eg.: susceptible to visual clues, etc....) then will you admit as such ?

 

[Red_desert]

I was without Internet since Last Sunday night, after my last comment. Apparently something needed to be reset on the surge protector the router was plugged into, just now back online.

 

[aarthrj3811]

What other explanation could you come up with. They were right on 96% of the 961 one wells that were drilled..Art

 

[Red_desert]

I hate when that happens! Welcome back!

You know, there is still some unexplained mystery about what really happened. The surge protector was a top-of-the-line 2 row guaranteed made for computers brand. We didn't check the surge until last thing, because the green light was on, also the light for being protected. The Internet provider was going to come out tomorrow and check the antenna on top of the roof. They had us unplug the router, also unplug the signal jack, putting it directly in the computer. At the broadband service provider office, the switch was detected and told us it was happening. We have 2 laptops, both no Internet access, but still connected to the router network.

My laptop I use down in the basement, so have installed an external wireless antenna for good signal, because it is down and opposite end of house. My external antenna was showing 72% signal strength with 85% ppercent link, this is normal for down here and is what I'm getting right now.

Last Sunday night, after making the comment in this thread, I was going to my Yahoo email inbox, but my Fiirefox browser has home set to MSN. Before clicking the Yahoo link, a headline appeared on MSN about N Korea shooting off missiles. The monent I clicked on that headline, we had an Internet blackout for both computers. That might not seem like anything, but my last email went to a treasure hunter in S Korea, right before my last post in this thread.

It might all be cooincidental, but still I've got to wonder about it.

 

[aarthrj3811]

I was away from T net for close to a month last November. T net was the only site I could not get to. The cable company told me it was a bad computer and the computer techs told me it was the cable companies fault. After all the hassles a high school girl came over and fixed it. What she told me to do makes no sense to me but it worked...Art

 

[Red_desert]

Sometimes a computer error can block a site, but normally you will get it back after restarting your computer. The other laptop was being used upstairs at the same time. It also went off the Internet last Sunday night. Both computers got back the Internet this evening about the same time.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

reply

What other explanation could you come up with. ....

Perhaps none.

You're gaming that I can find no other explanation. Thus showing the validity of dowsing. I'm willing to anaylyze it to see if that is so. And if it's found to be lacking (by a set of pre-arranged criteria) then you will come on the forum acknowledging as such. Right ? So do we have an agreement then ?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Art, don't play his game you have nothing to prove...

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Nitric what people don't understand or refuse to understand is the rods pivot towards each other simultaneously as you cross over a cable, when they point directly at each other you are directly over the cable, when you pass the cable they pivot towards your body, if you back up they pivot back towards the front, again simultaneously.


You ever come to Orlando area let me know, we will go beach detecting, I can furnish the detectors if you need and the scoops and I will show you how it works.....