A Question for skeptics.

[Peyton Manning]

I assume all dowsers are wealthy, having found every lost item of value?

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

Do a search on Chadwick & Jensen, Univ. of Utah as I recall.....

A quick and dirty google word search, to see if anyone had taken a careful look at it (ie.: careful to spot alternate explanations). And here a sample hit :

Dowsing: A Review of Experimental Research by George P. Hansen

And a few quotes lifted :

"... Chadwick and Jensen gave a graphical representation of the relation between the dowsers’ responses and the magnetic field but did not present a full statistical evaluation of these data; ..."

"... Chadwick and Jensen did not conclude that dowsing was necessarily an efficacious method of locating underground water...."


Mind you, this author (the link) was not one that set out to "find fault" with the findings. Perhaps if someone studied it harder, they could find added explanations, that end up making it amount to random chance. But just for their cursory reporting/commenting on the Chadwick & Jensen 1971 study: I'm not seeing any sort of "80% success rate".

And ... pray tell: Last I checked, this was a metal detecting forum. So ... with all-due respect for water, what does any of this have to do with coins, treasure, and metal ? I mean, even if I grant that the Chadwick/Jensen study showed results, I'm still scratching my head wondering what this has to do with metal ??

Carl's challenge , to meet Art, was to be with silver, not water, right ?

Dowsing is simply using one's intuition. Sure, I do that all the time, I just don't use dowsing rods. Very often I dowse for car keys and glasses. ....

Then this is just word-games semantics. I would not call that dowsing. Not in the sense of what people here are referring to, when they say "dowsing" , in terms of treasure, metal, rods, etc.... If we define it as "simple intuition", then .... sure ..... we all "believe in dowsing". But let's be honest: That is NOT what Art, etc... are referring to. They do believe there is an actual attraction of some sort, that is causing the rods to turn. Not "simple intuition".

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I assume all dowsers are wealthy, having found every lost item of value?

As much as I sympathize with your intended results, that won't work. In the same way someone couldn't say that to an md'r. Ie.: to "disbelieve" in md'ing, since... of course.... they can't find "every lost item of value".

Or put another way: An md'r goes out detecting. Does he find a gold or silver coin on every hunt ? Of course not. Ok, so does that mean "detectors don't work" ? Of course not.

So why the double-standard for dowsers ?

This has been a curious come-back line, to explain if a test fails. Ie.: these attempts to study whether or not it works. If it "doesn't work", they can just point to the fact that ... SO TOO do metal detector users likewise have days where they come home empty handed (no goodies).

I'm not saying I accept this logic. But just saying, the way you phrased it won't fly.

Here's why I don't accept the logic: While it's true that someone using a detector might come home with no gold and silver some days, yet: If you propped a detector on a table, set a threshold, and allowed 100 random people to wave a quarter in front of the loop, it would beep for all 100 of them, right ?

 

[aarthrj3811]

Well Tom. Mistake number one is that I have looked for water using my own well and dug well to see how it works. I went over to Utah and worked with a drilling crew. Water is easy but finding useable water takes a little more time.

Jeff Goden...I know a few dowsers that live in big houses and drive fine cars. How they got the money is none of my business....Art

 

[Butler]

Question: Would you or would you not take him along?

I'm, gonna say sure come along because who's to say my guess is gonna be better (or worse) than someone dowsing?

Yes, you can count me in the skeptic column on this one. I mean how does one "tune" dowsing rods to find silver or gold as opposed to finding water? I am not saying dowsing doesn't work, just saying how could it possibly?

 

[aarthrj3811]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/dowsing/10838-want-try-dowsing.html

Just follow the first 3 posts then come back and tell us what you learned,,,,Art

 

[Jeff H]

Personally I would invite the dowser....but only if he agreed to leave his dowsing rod home and use my spare metal detector. I believe he could subconsciously read his surroundings with a metal detector in his hands just as well as he can with a dowsing rod in is hands. And when he decides on a good spot to focus on, he can then turn on the metal detector to locate and recover the objects. I believe if he has the skill, knowledge, experience and ability, it doesn't matter if he has a stick in his hands or ham sandwich in his hands. But if he has a metal detector in his hands he will be more efficient than having a stick in his hands. Ham sandwich not a bad second choice for obvious reasons.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... I am not saying dowsing doesn't work, just saying how could it possibly?

I'll beat them to the draw: It's "un-discovered science".

Un-discovered science is wonderful. It requires no proof. Since, logically, since it's "un"-discovered, then there's no ability to explain it scientifically . I am not making this up. This has been the go-to answer given to me by dowsers in the past.

Of course this simply assumes it even works in the first place.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Personally I would invite the dowser....but only if he agreed to leave his dowsing rod home and use my spare metal detector

I know a few dowsers that do that. They say it is more comfortable when dowsing in parks. They don't have to answer a bunch of questions

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

And ... pray tell: Last I checked, this was a metal detecting forum. So ... with all-due respect for water, what does any of this have to do with coins, treasure, and metal ? I mean, even if I grant that the Chadwick/Jensen study showed results, I'm still scratching my head wondering what this has to do with metal ??

Tom, I guess you have trouble reading, the title of this forum is Dousing not metal detecting and apparently you have chose to ignore that. I have already warned you about this. This is my LAST warning.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... I have already warned you about this. ....

Ok. I followed someone's personal invitation poke, from another forum section. They distinctly asked for input/opinions, and directed them to a thread here. Once here, I saw other skeptics also chiming in.

Wasn't sure if the "rule" had been relaxed.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

You were questioning what dousing had to do with metal detecting, this is dousing forum. If you don't believe in dousing that is your right, but you seem hell bent to challenge those who do to the point your badgering members, this is what got you your time out last time.

badgering - To ask or nag (someone) about something in an annoying and persistent way; pester: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/badgering

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Jeff has also addressed this in a post.

I Didn't Like this Title when I first saw the Thread.
Expected to Come in & Delete it.

But after Reading the First Post, I decided to take a wait & see Stance.

As for the Title, Nobody Needs to
"Prove" Anything !!!!!!

As For Skeptics posting.
Everyone has their Own opinion on What is OK & What is Overboard.

Harping over something continuously to the Point Members feel like they are being attacked personally
for their beliefs
Gets my Attention.

My guess at some Point, someone will Get them-self in Trouble.

Like it or Not,
Best rule of Thumb for All Subjects on TreasureNet

Believers Are OK.

Since it's the Skeptics that usually Go Postal,
& start making threats & insisting on Proof.
Skeptics Beware & Be Careful !

Your opinion may be allowed, but your attitude may not