Talk, talk, enough talk already.

[Tom_in_CA]

.... We have nothing to prove.....

You're absolutely right . So when someone asks for "proof" there is no mandate or necessity on your part. You can say "no", at any time. Absolutely correct.

.... Just read the Sceitific proof on this board....

Really ? Where ? And ... wait ... I thought you just said no proof would be forth-coming ?

And no, On the contrary: it has not been wasted time. It's been very revealing and educating. In ... yes ... non-badgering and friendly discussion. I am very glad to know the rationale that can be given. Even if some people take issue with the reasons and rationale, it is VERY informative, to at least know the reasons people go with certain decisions, methods, beliefs, etc... So to that extent, no, it's not been a waste of time. I very much respect you guys for answering questions, giving the mindset/reasons, etc....

Even if 2 sides don't "convince" each other, it is helpful to know the way each other thinks. Otherwise, it wouldn't be intellectually credible to 'diss something, w/o that person(s) being given opportunity to explain. Like to understand another religion, it's more intellectually credible and revealing to hear it from THEIR apologists, not ones OWN apologists (to borrow from a religious term).

... If you want to prove something it is now in your court.....

unfortunately, if I'm reading post #37 correctly, this will be impossible. It can't be proved or disproved. Unless you disagree with post #37 ?

 

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[lesjcbs]

Each dowser uses their own individual method. Some say their rods sense targets. Some use no tools at all but "finger dowse." Some use pendulums. All these methods have found targets, from under a rod crossing to very long distances shots. The common beauty about dowsing is, each dowser has and uses their own method. I have never been criticized or told by another dowser my method is wrong. Likewise I will not tell another dowser their method is wrong because when I do, I am then wrong. What I will do though is listen to them and adopt anything and everything I can use from their information. Likewise, if asked, I will explain how I dowse and if the listener wants to try it, that is their choice.

Through out past centuries, science has argued and bickered back and forth on questions and has CHANGED their conclusions (so called facts) countless times on many questions. Dowsing, being as varied as it is in its application by the dowser, does not suffer what science suffers, but has always stayed constant and is repeatable in the field. In short, science has had to bow to the statement: "When the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." I don't care who or who did not say it, it is a true statement that fits science very well. In the end, it gives the impression science does not know anything. Stay tuned for more dowsing finds soon.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... Some say their rods sense targets. Some use no tools at all....

Very revealing. No tools at all. Since, of course, it's the "tools" we are discussing. Very interesting.

.... science has argued and bickered back and forth on questions and has CHANGED their conclusions (so called facts) countless times on many questions....

Yes. That is the "undiscovered science" explanation. Right ?

Said in an un-badgering friendly way.

 

[lesjcbs]

The work of Chadwick and Jensen (1971) appears to be the first documented experiment carried out under double blind conditions which was relevant to the dowsing problem. Chadwick, the experimenter, was a sceptic, and did not know the correct answers. 150 subjects were tested, mostly novice dowsers. A path was chosen leading through a park, with no known features. Subjects were asked to place small wooden blocks where they felt they were getting a reaction or field . The positions of the blocks were noted after each run, and removed before the next run. When all the subjects had been tested, a conventional magnetometer survey was carried out along the path. The correlations between the subjects and the magnetometry were found to be statistically significant at the .05 level. There was therefore some evidence of correlation between magnetic gradient changes and dowsing reactions. The conclusions were that there are sufficient statistically significant results to warrant further investigations.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

The work of Chadwick and Jensen (1971) appears to ....

You mean this ? :

Dowsing: A Review of Experimental Research by George P. Hansen

If so, have you read Pg. 349 and 350 .... ? Seems the "jury was still out" ?

 

[Darke]

There were actually 4 locations used in the Chadwick and Jensen tests. The correlation was ground water could influence the magnetic fields in the area.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

There were actually 4 locations used in the Chadwick and Jensen tests. The correlation was ground water could influence the magnetic fields in the area.

Ok. And I realize this forum section is "dowsing". Thus would not disclude water. So, ... assuming (for sake of argument) that the Chadwick/Jensen tests showed some anomaly about "water". That's great & wonderful.

But what does the tests say about metal ? (ie.: silver, gold, etc....). I just did a quick review of their studies, and ... it appears to be all about water. With all due respect for water, .... has there been any tests, like theirs, to study the results when done for metal ? Ie.: the things we seek here on treasurenet: Coins, rings, silver, gold, caches, etc... (Although I acknowledge ... sure ... some people maybe strictly looking for water).

If I'm not mistaken, the Chadwick/Jensen study was strictly about water. Thus .... any similar such tests done for metal that can be linked ?

 

[Darke]

Ok. And I realize this forum section is "dowsing". Thus would not disclude water. So, ... assuming (for sake of argument) that the Chadwick/Jensen tests showed some anomaly about "water". That's great & wonderful.

But what does the tests say about metal ? (ie.: silver, gold, etc....). I just did a quick review of their studies, and ... it appears to be all about water. With all due respect for water, .... has there been any tests, like theirs, to study the results when done for metal ? Ie.: the things we seek here on treasurenet: Coins, rings, silver, gold, caches, etc... (Although I acknowledge ... sure ... some people maybe strictly looking for water).

If I'm not mistaken, the Chadwick/Jensen study was strictly about water. Thus .... any similar such tests done for metal that can be linked ?

They did use a iron rod to skew the magnetic field but the participants weren't informed but it's still claimed often that's what most people were locating even though the data says otherwise. There were some that included metal but they weren't conducted in the scientific fields most people would want to reference. Mostly psychical research, some psychiatric fields and archaeology(grave dowsing mostly). Not sure if they're available online or not since I've only seen the excerpts of a few.

 

[Holyground]

It works. Don't you know that a percentage of the public would argue with Christ one minute after he healed them? Also, did you know that a large persentage of people are mentally ill? True. I know it works and I have no stake saying one way or another.

 

[Darke]

It works. Don't you know that a percentage of the public would argue with Christ one minute after he healed them? Also, did you know that a large persentage of people are mentally ill? True. I know it works and I have no stake saying one way or another.

That's what people tell me and I have no intention of telling them otherwise. I've built over 250 dowsing rods so there's definitely a lot of believers. But the thread is about cited information and finds. I like hearing both sides.

 

[lesjcbs]

Go to:. Dowsing my 100th Silver Coin of the Year - YouTube
YouTube › watch

 

[Darke]

Go to:. Dowsing my 100th Silver Coin of the Year - YouTube
YouTube › watch

That one?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... There were some that included metal but they weren't conducted in the scientific fields most people would want to reference. ....

Thankyou. I will take that as a "no". Ie.: That there is not a study for metal , on-par with the rigorous double-blind method done in that oft-cited Chadwick/Jensen study.

..... Don't you know that a percentage of the public would argue with Christ one minute after he healed them? ......

Interesting. If we start with the premise that dowsing works (just as we can start with the premise that, yes, Christ performed miracles), then yes: I can totally accept & understand that rationale . However, that seems to start with a premise, that has not been shown.

In order to apply that to the current discussion, we would need to make dowsing be 1) having satisfied the premise that demonstrated results have occurred (that can't be easily chalked up to other explanations) and 2) be on par with "miraculous" . Ie.: supernatural . As in the case of Christ & healing was supernatural/miraculous. If so, then yes, your example does hold merit.

However, the moment we go down THAT path, is the moment we attribute it to supernatural (as opposed to scientific). If so, are you attributing it to that power ? Because there's a lot of dowsers that DISTANCE themselves from those explanations. And will insist there's some science to it (albeit undiscovered) . Lest it get grouped into a category of mystical, occult, magic, etc.... And ... we can't go there. Right ? Or can we ? If we chalk it up to that, then yes : I can totally go with your miracles analogy. But as I say, then we would have a whole host of other problems, and dissenters, within the dowsers own ranks.

... I like hearing both sides.

Thanx. Yes. It is fascinating to hear all views on the subject.

Go to:. Dowsing my 100th Silver Coin of the Year - YouTube
YouTube › watch

Yes. There is, without a doubt much much anecdotal stories and testimonies that are available. It's just a shame it can't be tested and shown .

 

[Darke]

Thankyou. I will take that as a "no". Ie.: That there is not a study for metal , on-par with the rigorous double-blind method done in that oft-cited Chadwick/Jensen study.

That's pretty much the case. All the properly conducted tests were for water and the only one I know of for other objects was with a LRL. Chadwick and Jensen is the only one that cited an "ummm maybe, could be" correlation though.

Oh and thanks for the link to Hansens page. That contains quite a few citations to Psychical Research articles I've never read.

 

[lesjcbs]

That one?

Yes. Now check out:. Reed Luken on youtube. I am working with our new smart phone that is smarter than I am.

 

[lesjcbs]

That one?

Yes. Now check out: Reed Luken on youtube. I am working with our new smart phone that is smarter than I am.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Let's see now. The Spainish sent ship after ship full of gold from here all found with Dowsing . In Europe coal, iron and other metals were located by Dowers.....Get your facts right Tom...Art

 

[elh]

There were actually 4 locations used in the Chadwick and Jensen tests. The correlation was ground water could influence the magnetic fields in the area.

Darke, I have a friend in Canada that dowses using two rods. He told me that while searching one day in his yard that his rods began spinning round and round for no apparent reason that he knew of. Later on he realized he was standing in a place exactly between an overhead power line and an underground water source. SO, there is much evidence that rods can be skewed.
Another friend told me that iron could hide gold and silver. He later proved his point in a dowsing class and I proved it here at my home.
With my silver coins in a jar buried about 18 inches deep, I also buried iron pieces around the site. Six or eight months later I decided to dowse , find,
and dig the coins up. The rod did NOT locate the coins and my garrett detector did no good, the Fisher twin box would not locate coins either. I was beginning to worry because the grass had grown back and I did not recognize the spot of burial. After thinking a few minutes I dug up the iron pieces I had planted, waited about one hour, tried the rod and hit a spot. Twin box sounded off really good. Then I dug my coins up. I prefer doing my own set up to prove a theory or disprove.

 

[elh]

Let's see now. The Spainish sent ship after ship full of gold from here all found with Dowsing . In Europe coal, iron and other metals were located by Dowers.....Get your facts right Tom...Art

Art, he has no facts and that is because he is blinded by sciencetificl mumbo jumbo, abra cadra junk. He would'nt know a double blind test because of his
own blindness to other tests and testimonials. He in very kind words is calling everyone else liars.

 

[Darke]

Darke, I have a friend in Canada that dowses using two rods. He told me that while searching one day in his yard that his rods began spinning round and round for no apparent reason that he knew of. Later on he realized he was standing in a place exactly between an overhead power line and an underground water source. SO, there is much evidence that rods can be skewed.
Another friend told me that iron could hide gold and silver. He later proved his point in a dowsing class and I proved it here at my home.
With my silver coins in a jar buried about 18 inches deep, I also buried iron pieces around the site. Six or eight months later I decided to dowse , find,
and dig the coins up. The rod did NOT locate the coins and my garrett detector did no good, the Fisher twin box would not locate coins either. I was beginning to worry because the grass had grown back and I did not recognize the spot of burial. After thinking a few minutes I dug up the iron pieces I had planted, waited about one hour, tried the rod and hit a spot. Twin box sounded off really good. Then I dug my coins up. I prefer doing my own set up to prove a theory or disprove.

That was the reason for the rod in the Chadwick and Jensen test. It created a negative field area near it. Basically a sweet spot for dowsing activation since the field varied so much as you approached the rod. High tension wire can create large fields. They can be observed by sticking the end of fluorescent light tube in the ground. Fun to freak people out with lol.