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Thread: Eye witness reliability.

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  1. #1
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
    846
    303 times
    Metal Detecting

    Eye witness reliability.

    None are so blind as those who will not see.

    Dowsing skeptics like to talk about and try to make their case against dowsing based on eye witness reliability. It just so happens, this applies to their tests too, and in a big way.

    A double blinded test of dowsing does nothing more than show that dowsing does not work in such a test. When it does not work they rush to judgement that it dos not work. Their eye witness reports are unreliable as they leave out and do not want to see, or take into account the targets that are being found by dowsers, dowsing out in the field. The recovered targets testify and are concrete proof dowsing works, no matter how it works, or what happens in tests. How it works does not matter and never will. Now if nothing was found in the field when dowsing, then skeptics would have a case, but they don't.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.”

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  2. #2
    us
    Dec 2018
    Alaska
    Nox 800
    267
    429 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    When I was a kid in the 70's/80's I work for a landscaper who used dowsing to find water/gas/electrical lines prior to digging. One day I turned around and saw him doing it when I chuckled and asked WTHeck are you doing? He explained and then handed me the rods. I was fascinated that it worked and from then on out when underground hazards need to be found he asked me to do it.

    Will the method find gold? I imagine it will because gold is one of the best conductors of electricity known to man
    Ken S. likes this.

  3. #3
    us
    The Watcher

    Apr 2004
    Northern Nevada
    Dowsing Rods and a Ranger Tell Examiner
    9,286
    1062 times
    When I was a kid in the 70's/80's I work for a landscaper who used dowsing to find water/gas/electrical lines prior to digging. One day I turned around and saw him doing it when I chuckled and asked WTHeck are you doing? He explained and then handed me the rods. I was fascinated that it worked and from then on out when underground hazards need to be found he asked me to do it.
    There hundreds of stories like yours. One of my sons has spent almost 30 years working for a water company. When a team needs help he is the first they call..Art
    Ken S. likes this.

  4. #4

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,667
    10018 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    .... based on eye witness reliability.....
    If you re-read the couple of comments about that, I believe you will see that those posters did not say that "eye witness" accounts (eg.: personal testimony) are always unreliable. After all: Our court-systems are FILLED with cases where, yes, eye-witnesses testify as to what they saw, etc.... That shows the value of eye-witness accounts.

    The only thing we were saying is: That eyewitness accounts (personally testimonies) don't stand alone. Like in court-cases, they are just one of the forms of evidence introduced. Or that if "testimonies" were conflicting, then there'd be immediate concerns about reliability. This is where a prosecutor hopes to add physical evidence on top of whatever testimonials he can gather.

    So too is it with the subject at hand. Like bigfoot or Lochness sightings (by very sincere people): It would be one thing to get people to say they saw it. Ok, that's compelling. But it would be quite another thing to get photographs, capture one for study, etc.....
    Last edited by Tom_in_CA; Jan 14, 2019 at 12:25 PM.
    Darke likes this.

  5. #5
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
    846
    303 times
    Metal Detecting
    In felony trials, where beyond a reasonable doubt is shown, the verdict is not guilty. In civil cases, it is responsible or not responsible. But, in both, where there is doubt, the decision is ALWAYS in favor of the defendant. The dowsing finds trumps test results, making the defendant, dowsing, not guilty or not responsible and goes free.
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Jan 14, 2019 at 12:59 PM.
    Tom_in_CA likes this.

  6. #6
    us
    Jan 2013
    Maryland
    Bounty Hunter
    1,209
    1135 times
    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    In felony trials, where beyond a reasonable doubt is shown, the verdict is not guilty. In civil cases, it is responsible or not responsible. But, in both, where there is doubt, the decision is ALWAYS in favor of the defendant. The dowsing finds trumps test results, making the defendant, dowsing, not guilty or not responsible and goes free.
    In a criminal trial, felony or otherwise, if reasonable doubt is shown, the verdict should be "Not Guilty". If there is no reasonable doubt, the verdict should be "Guilty".
    Darke likes this.

  7. #7
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
    846
    303 times
    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by Doubter in MD View Post
    In a criminal trial, felony or otherwise, if reasonable doubt is shown, the verdict should be "Not Guilty". If there is no reasonable doubt, the verdict should be "Guilty".
    No it is not the same in all trials. You are wrong. I know, I was a pro-temp judge for several years. For civil, it is a percentage factor (50/50, 51/49, 49/51). In a felony trial it is the doubt factor. The dowsing find shows the double blinded test lacking as the dowsing finds are solid tangible proof that it works. Now if nothing was found while dowsing in the field, then the double blinded test would win, NO DOUBT about it.
    Last edited by lesjcbs; Jan 14, 2019 at 07:34 PM.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.”

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

  8. #8

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    13,667
    10018 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    .... The dowsing find shows the double blinded test lacking as the dowsing finds are solid tangible proof that it works.... .
    Something's not adding up here. If the a) dowsing finds are solid tangible proof, and b) there is no doubt that many testimonials abound for finds, then c) why WOULDN'T the double blind test therefore work (ie.: be "lacking") ?

    Well, There is no shortage of reasons why double- blind tests are not possible to perform.
    Last edited by Tom_in_CA; Jan 15, 2019 at 09:59 AM.

  9. #9
    us
    The Watcher

    Apr 2004
    Northern Nevada
    Dowsing Rods and a Ranger Tell Examiner
    9,286
    1062 times
    why WOULDN'T the double blind test therefore work (ie.: be "lacking") ?
    Gee Tom...We offered to provide the dowsers , Now where are your 50 non dowsers and the 1/2 million dollars. We know we can dowse so now the ball is in your court...Art
    Last edited by aarthrj3811; Jan 16, 2019 at 01:00 PM.

  10. #10
    us
    Jan 2013
    Maryland
    Bounty Hunter
    1,209
    1135 times
    Metal Detecting
    Quote Originally Posted by lesjcbs View Post
    No it is not the same in all trials. You are wrong. I know, I was a pro-temp judge for several years. For civil, it is a percentage factor (50/50, 51/49, 49/51). In a felony trial it is the doubt factor. The dowsing find shows the double blinded test lacking as the dowsing finds are solid tangible proof that it works. Now if nothing was found while dowsing in the field, then the double blinded test would win, NO DOUBT about it.
    No. You are wrong. I said nothing about a civil trial and I understand that the burden of proof is different in a civil trial. You keep referring to "felony" trials and I corrected it to "criminal" which is more accurate. Not all crimes are felonies.

    In addition, you said, "In felony trials, where beyond a reasonable doubt is shown, the verdict is not guilty.". This is also wrong based on my interpretation of the statement. If something is shown to be true beyond a reasonable doubt then the verdict should be "guilty". You state that it should be "not guilty".

  11. #11
    us
    Jul 2011
    Pocket dowsing L- Rods shown above. Whites Beach Comber, Bounty Hunter Sharp Shooter II, Whites TM 808, Canon 350D EOS Digital Rebel XT DSLR Camera.
    846
    303 times
    Metal Detecting
    In the United States, the felony / misdemeanor distinction is widely applied. The federal government defines a felony as a crime so serious; the punishment is by death or imprisonment in excess of one year. Felony and criminal can mean the same thing. Where I live, depending on who you are talking with, both terms can be used. A traffic ticket is a misdemeanor. Murder is a criminal or felony offence. Felony requires beyond a shadow of doubt for guilty and to convict, but in a misdemeanor case, it is the preponderance of the evidence (50 / 50, 49 / 51, 51 / 49).
    Civil trials handles misdemeanors and criminal trials deal with felonies.
    Einstein said: I know very well that many scientists consider dowsing as a type of ancient superstition. According to my conviction this is, however, unjustified. The dowsing rod is a simple instrument which shows the reaction of the human nervous system to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time.”

    If dowsing does not work, the Spanish would not have used it as much as they did.

    Practice makes perfect, even in dowsing.

 

 

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