Can lucky number "7" be used in dowsing and in metal detecting for better performanc?

[Tom_in_CA]

What is a Psychosomatic Disorder? ....

I meant Psychosomatic as in PLACEBO positive-thinking effect. Ie.: all in the brain, and not really "real" that the lucky charm is actually doing anything in-&-of-itself.

And yes, placebo effects and positive thinking help in everything we do. But as you can see, in that case, the "lucky charm" or "rabbits foot" , etc... was not really doing anything.

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

All we can really say is that Einstein didn't understand dowsing. ....

It's the old addage: "smart people make mistakes". I understand, for instance, that Einstein, even though a genius in certain areas, would walk around with his fly open.

 

[Carl-NC]

One of my favorite Einstein quotes:

"There is not the slightest indication that [nuclear energy] will
ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to
be shattered at will." -- Albert Einstein, 1932

I expect Einstein knew a bit more about nuclear physics than he did of dowsing. The bottom line is, a scientist can be wrong. Even Einstein, and he made much bigger blunders than this one. While scientists are often wrong, Science as a whole is a very self-correcting system. It is overwhelmingly the best method we have come up with for understanding how everything in the universe works. It hands-down beats superstitions and guessing.

 

[signal_line]

Rabbit's foot reminds me of Gilligan's Island episode they had some sort of robot that could walk underwater. SO that scientist guy had it all set up with a tape recording to get a rescue crew to them. So they were listening on the radio and the reporter said they got the robot but the tape recording had been erased. Turns out Gilligan had put a rabbit's foot for good luck too close to the recorded tape and the metal on it erased the tape. LOL

Einstein said he could feel it in his little finger when his math formula was correct.

So yeah, he didn't know the nervous system. You feel it in the palm of your hand where all acupuncture meridians are concentrated.

His relatives came from Egypt--they were known dowsers. One of them was Moses.

 

[lesjcbs]

One of my favorite Einstein quotes:

"There is not the slightest indication that [nuclear energy] will
ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to
be shattered at will." -- Albert Einstein, 1932

I expect Einstein knew a bit more about nuclear physics than he did of dowsing. The bottom line is, a scientist can be wrong. Even Einstein, and he made much bigger blunders than this one. While scientists are often wrong, Science as a whole is a very self-correcting system. It is overwhelmingly the best method we have come up with for understanding how everything in the universe works. It hands-down beats superstitions and guessing.

Guessing:
"To estimate or suppose something without sufficient information to be sure of being correct." So, you have your metal detector in hand, and not knowing for sure if anything can be found over there, you go there and start scanning. Why did you start over there and not at the other side of the field? If that ain't guessing, I don't know what is. Long range dowsing shots can indicate a target is over there before you take one step in that direction. DOWSING FACT. It happens all the time. So who is guessing and who is not?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... relatives came from Egypt--they were known dowsers. One of them was Moses.

Really ? How do you figure ? What is the scripture reference to that ?

 

[signal_line]

Book of Exodus.

 

[lesjcbs]

Us dowsers have been telling you scientific guys all along that dowsing works and and that science has no authority over it. But you don't listen very well.

 

[signal_line]

There was a study done in Europe and USA, they had twenty six pairs of snails each labelled for a letter of the alphabet. They sent one snail from each pair to the USA. When they put light on a snail in Europe it started to wake up and move. The other counterpart snail in the USA woke up and started to move. They were able to send a message. Called rapport. Almost certainly this is the same mechanism that happens when someone has a helper hide a test target for them and they think they can dowse (or misnomer "map dowse") the location--they are just reading the person, NOT the hidden target.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... dowsing works and and that science has no authority over it....

Wait, I thought we just had this discussion ? That it is totally scientific . (even if, albeit ... unkown science) ? You got me confused

Guessing: ...

Les, I agree with this definition of guessing. And that , yes, md'rs go on "gut instinct" (ie.: guessing), to decide which end of the field to progress to. Sure. But if you're morphing that into an explanation of what is going on, in the dowser's mind as well, then : Perhaps the dowser could have done the same thing (just like the md'r does) without rods ? Ie.: that the rods were doing nothing ?

I mean, are the rods themselves doing something, or aren't they ? Or, to be more specific: Is there a physical attraction between the rods and the object ? Or is it all just in the mind of the dowser ?

 

[signal_line]

Rapport is real and if you are not careful you will develop bad habits--and think you are dowsing. This probably the reason the double blind tests are not successful with many/most who think they can dowse. And bad habits are hard to unlearn. The blind leading the blind. And that's why the people on this forum don't get it and most likely never will.

And you don't need meditation and daily practice with feedback for rapport.

 

[signal_line]

And I'm portrayed the villain for speaking the truth.

 

[aarthrj3811]

I think we communicate real well with each other. That is what we do when not answering dumb questions from skeptics

 

[Tom_in_CA]

And I'm portrayed the villain for speaking the truth.

No, not a villian. Someone might say: guilty of "dumb questions" ? . But no: Not a villian. You are putting for fair food-for-thought, @ an intellectual discussion.

Nor are believers in dowsing "villians" or "dumb". I much respect that they honestly consider and reply. That shows intellectual credibility to consider and discuss dissenting views. I think they're coming to the wrong conclusion, but ... that's just where I think the more-plausible explanations and evidence points.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Nor are believers in dowsing "villians" or "dumb". I much respect that they honestly consider and reply. That shows intellectual credibility to consider and discuss dissenting views.

I think they're coming to the wrong conclusion, but ... that's just where I think the more-plausible explanations and evidence points.

No Tom . We have pages of Scientific that have been done. You have the word of Randi the magic man and the people at Carl's web site.. Prove I am wrong

 

[signal_line]

You might want to add: but I can't dowse so I don't have a clue WTH I'm even talking about.

So yeah, you succeeded in pushing my patience past the limit. End of this thread.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... We have pages of Scientific that have been done....

And ... you do realize, that so-too would the skeptics say the same exact thing. And thus: The two opposing view compare and discuss the "science" that they think merits their conclusions. But to simply say "we have science to support our stance", is inconclusive. Because so-too would the contrary opinion say the exact same thing.

.... You have the word of Randi the magic man and the people at Carl's web site..

I have not seen Carl's website. Only what I read of his inputs here. But ... even if I HAD seen/read Carl's website, how is that somehow not admissible as study-on-this subject ? I mean, is it a starting premise that this website is full of errors ? If so, then Yes: It would be folly for someone to point to that as their authority. But since when is it a starting premise that his website is erroneous ? As I say, I haven't read/seen it. Got a link ?

As for "Randi", you will notice that I have not mentioned his name in any of this discussion. Because I'm already aware of the pushbacks: Namely, that there is trickery going on (like a magic trick slight-of-hand). The tests he did were flawed, skewed, unfair, he doesn't really have the reward money, he had magnets in his pocket, etc.... I already realize the pushback lines for citing "Randi". Hence, you will have noticed, I don't cite him.

That's not to say that I fear the "pushbacks". But just sayin' that : I don't want to debate the validity of his tests, his supposed trickery and manipulations to forcibly cause those dowsers to fail, the lack of qualifications of those who tried, etc... Randi is not a rabbit trail I go on, any longer.

.... . Prove I am wrong

And the only reason I quote that, is to show that you made the invite, to continue the discussion . To which I respect your integrity to dialogue. I hope I too have shown that I'm reading and considering all that you have to say.

 

[signal_line]

Dowsing is not worth it. That's why I half-jokingly call the rods and pendulums M.I.T.A.S. Medieval Implements of Torture And Superstition

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

Well...first, I wish to know why divination in this manner fell by the wayside.


Next this:
"The rod is labelled "Virgula Divina – Glück rüt" (Latin: divine rod; German "Wünschelrute": fortune rod or stick), but there is no text accompanying the woodcut. By 1556 Georgius Agricola's treatment of mining and smelting of ore, De Re Metallica, included a detailed description of dowsing for metal ore.

"...There are many great contentions between miners concerning the forked twig, for some say that it is of the greatest use in discovering veins, and others deny it. ... All alike grasp the forks of the twig with their hands, clenching their fists, it being necessary that the clenched fingers should be held toward the sky in order that the twig should be raised at that end where the two branches meet. Then they wander hither and thither at random through mountainous regions. It is said that the moment they place their feet on a vein the twig immediately turns and twists, and so by its action discloses the vein ; when they move their feet again and go away from that spot the twig becomes once more immobile."

I heard the scientists had no idea what might happen when they first split an atom in Chicago. There seemed to be a fear among some of a chain reaction which would be disastrous. Can't give a source for that.

It would be nice, I think if this discussion had been part of the other dowsing discussion.

Martin Luther tied dowsing to occultism, and concluded the practice broke the first commandment. Just putting that out there.

I intend to try dowsing, by the way.
I would like to know who here thinks there is a real undiscovered basis in science for successful dowsing, and who thinks it is a mystical or psychic thing, or something along those lines.
The notion one has to meditate to be successful at dowsing is somewhat discouraging. On the other hand, being distracted is not good while metal detecting.
How many, while treasure hunting, have hunches, are drawn to one patch of ground over another.
As far as lucky charms, I think if you believe in such it might help you. Can't hurt really.
The mind is powerful. I read of cases in Africa where doctors dealt with villagers who had been stricken with a death curse by a witch doctor. The villager believed in such things, and sickened and died in spite of the Western doctor.
If the discussion is based on dowsing as mysticism, there is not much use in bringing in science here.
If the discussion is based on dowsing as a science grounded practice then there should be no mysticism.

Just for fun, a numerologist recommended writing a number on a piece of paper and carrying it in your wallet to attract money. Any number-maybe the amount you desire.
Might work with gold. Put a chunk in your pocket while treaure hunting?
I am very skeptical about LRL and map\photo dowsing.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Dowsing is not worth it. That's why I half-jokingly call the rods and pendulums M.I.T.A.S. Medieval Implements of Torture And Superstition

Dowsing has been a way of life for me and many others.

If your heart is in it you will find a thousand ways to achieve your goal.
If your heart is not in it you will find a thousand excuses.

and it took you 30 years to learn that you could no Dowse

Works great if you like wild goose chases and snipe hunts!

Snipes fly very fast and hard to shoot.
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