Random Chance and Empty Holes

[aarthrj3811]

What is Random Chance when it is applied to Dowsing? I find these two words used together when talking about evolution and flipping coins. In most definitions they are not used together. There are pages of formulas on Probability interpretations but nothing on Random Chances. Could it be that Random Chances means nothing when used together?

How about Empty Holes. …What does this mean in the context of Dowsing…Art

[aarthrj3811]

Main article: Probability interpretations
The word probability does not have a consistent direct definition. Actually, there are two broad categories of probability interpretations: Frequentists talk about probabilities only when dealing with well defined random experiments. The relative frequency of occurrence of an experiment's outcome, when repeating the experiment, is a measure of the probability of that random event. Bayesians, however, assign probabilities to any statement whatsoever, even when no random process is involved, as a way to represent its subjective plausibility.

For decades "strange" and "bizarre" results have appeared in physics experiments that concern themselves with small waves or particles. Explanations for these results have proven elusive, even with accepted theories such as "uncertainty principles." Such "bizarreness" has been a thorn in the sides of those in the scientific community.

Perhaps a "bizarre" (to conventional scientists) theory might explain these strange results. Consider the possibility that randomness theory is like Newton's theory, valid only up to a point. The monkey wrench in Newton's theory arises when speeds approach that of light. Then Einstein's theories require alterations in Newton's formulas. In terms of randomness, it is my belief that the monkey wrench in randomness theory arises when there is significant conscious (and/or unconscious) intent. Such intent seems to significantly alter the situation and often overrides mathematical probabilities and randomness formulas.

[aarthrj3811]

Hey Judy…These guys have made me read a lot of stuff. They have also made me do a lot of testing. My job is to pass on what I know just like my father did. He would tell me things and it would go in one ear and out of the other. Years later I would realize what he had been telling me. I have taught around a 1000 kids how to find sewer, water and electric lines. When these kids get a home of their own and have a problem some will remember and save themselves some money.

I don’t understand how people can try to destroy a way of life that has been around for so long…..I have had a lot of different hobbies in my life and I sure won’t be doing this if it was not worth while….Art

[ClonedSIM]

...it is my belief that the monkey wrench in randomness theory arises when there is significant conscious (and/or unconscious) intent. Such intent seems to significantly alter the situation and often overrides mathematical probabilities and randomness formulas.

Belief...?
Seems...?
Looks like the dowsers are confusing their facts and opinions again...

And what do empty holes mean in the context of dowsing, Art?

[aarthrj3811]

Belief...?
Seems...?
Looks like the dowsers are confusing their facts and opinions again...

And what do empty holes mean in the context of dowsing, Art?

Pretty simple AF…This is the last theory of the skeptics that we have shot down. It is just a bunch of words that mean nothing….Art

[ClonedSIM]

Belief...?
Seems...?
Looks like the dowsers are confusing their facts and opinions again...

And what do empty holes mean in the context of dowsing, Art?

Pretty simple AF…This is the last theory of the skeptics that we have shot down. It is just a bunch of words that mean nothing….Art

So what's the answer, Art? Try to actually answer a question, not spout off some meandering thought that doesn't even touch the original issue.

[Ascholten]

An empty hole means the person got their treasure out of it, and needs to fill it in next time and quit leaving holes around!!

Aaron

[ClonedSIM]

An empty hole means the person got their treasure out of it, and needs to fill it in next time and quit leaving holes around!!

Aaron

LOL!

[Tom_in_CA]

Hey af, I have actually seen something akin to Aaron's info, given as one of the reasons a dowser's hole is empty: "A treasure (or coin or whatever) was there before, and the halo still exists. The item(s) must've already been removed before I dowsed to this location" True story! I've actually seen that as the rationale for a dry hole from a dowser before.

[ClonedSIM]

Hey af, I have actually seen something akin to Aaron's info, given as one of the reasons a dowser's hole is empty: "A treasure (or coin or whatever) was there before, and the halo still exists. The item(s) must've already been removed before I dowsed to this location" True story! I've actually seen that as the rationale for a dry hole from a dowser before.

That's right, I almost forgot! The whole "treasure aura" theory. About how gold leaves behind a trace of something that rods pick up on. That's a fun one.

[aarthrj3811]

You two think your funny….First you denied that these signals exist. Then you say that the signals do not exist after the gold is removed. If you would bother to read this forum you would find that I have an experiment in process that will answer that question. You have been proven wrong about the signals so what makes you think that you will be right this time?. Come on guys...Tell me, what is an empty hole ?...Art

[Ascholten]

. Come on guys...Tell me, what is an empty hole ?...Art

umm.... the space between your ears?


Actually, the halo thing is quite real. Even conventional metal detecting, you find something that's been in the ground a while it leaves a trace there after you dig it up. A Halo, or minerals / metals that leeched / decomposed etc out of it that are in the surrounding ground....

Very real it is... Just ask any MD who's been at it awhile... ferrous metals tend to do this a lot that I have seen.

On a dowsing mindset, it is possible that if the person is looking for just a 'metal' then yes they might pick up the traces of the item that was there, because technically yes minute traces of the metal is there still....

Im not going to get into the whole debate over mental .vs. physical dowsing but this is a good example of why it is better if you are being more 'specific' in your seekings... instead of generalizing too much.

Aaron

[aarthrj3811]

Thanks Aaron….I don’t get to hunt with Metal Detector people to much since I moved. These want-a-be treasure hunters have no idea how the real world works….Art

[Tom_in_CA]

Sure, a halo exists. I have heard of someone saying that they found a silver dime in nasty bad mineralized ground (so bad that the silver dime imprint left a grey cacoon-like imprint in the ground around it. The guy removed the dime, covered the hole, and swung back over it. He got a slight signal, so he opened the hole again. Nothing! By the time he repacked the hole the second time, all the dirt was crumbled up by now, and the signal disappeared. He figured that he must've been detecting the halo, while the imprint was still intact.

But with that said, I have never, in 30 yrs. of detecting, been walking along, got a signal, and found it to be a halo. You'd have to hurry and swing over an exact known spot, listening to the slightest quiver. No doubt, would disintigrate shortly after a coin is removed.

So, yes, halos do exist, d/t ground leaching from copper, silver, etc.... But it is very slight and probably decreases rapidly when ground is mixed up, and/or sits for any length of time thereafter. For anyone (md'rs or dowsers) to give them as a reason for dry holes, seems to be more of a convenient reason that you dug in a spot where nothing existed to begin with. I mean, I'm sure you can understand the skepticism.

[ClonedSIM]

So, yes, halos do exist, d/t ground leaching from copper, silver, etc.... But it is very slight and probably decreases rapidly when ground is mixed up, and/or sits for any length of time thereafter. For anyone (md'rs or dowsers) to give them as a reason for dry holes, seems to be more of a convenient reason that you dug in a spot where nothing existed to begin with. I mean, I'm sure you can understand the skepticism.

Amen, brother!

And Ascholten is right, that ferrous metals do this a lot more often then silver, gold or other noble metals. I'm not sure I've ever dug a halo signal, either. You can sometimes pick up a faint signal once the coin, ring, what-have-you has been removed from the ground, but never anything that I would actually dig.

And Art. A real treasure hunter can admit when they've dug a hole leading to nothing. You apparently can't. Interesting, eh?

[aarthrj3811]

And Art. A real treasure hunter can admit when they've dug a hole leading to nothing. You apparently can't. Interesting, eh?
That's right, I almost forgot! The whole "treasure aura" theory. About how gold leaves behind a trace of something that rods pick up on. That's a fun one.
So what's the answer, Art? Try to actually answer a question, not spout off some meandering thought that doesn't even touch the original issue

Tell me, what is an empty hole ?...Art

[ClonedSIM]

And Art. A real treasure hunter can admit when they've dug a hole leading to nothing. You apparently can't. Interesting, eh?
That's right, I almost forgot! The whole "treasure aura" theory. About how gold leaves behind a trace of something that rods pick up on. That's a fun one.
So what's the answer, Art? Try to actually answer a question, not spout off some meandering thought that doesn't even touch the original issue

Tell me, what is an empty hole ?...Art

Acholten answered this quite succinctly above:
umm.... the space between your ears?

[aarthrj3811]

Acholten answered this quite succinctly above:
umm.... the space between your ears?

Ok….Now I understand what a dry hole is. You have admitted that this type of hole exist. So what’s the big deal about dry holes?...Art

[ClonedSIM]

Acholten answered this quite succinctly above:
umm.... the space between your ears?

Ok….Now I understand what a dry hole is. You have admitted that this type of hole exist. So what’s the big deal about dry holes?...Art

Do dowsers dig them?

Some say yes, some say no. So which is it?

[aarthrj3811]

Well AF…All I can say is that I have not had that experience…I have saw where others have found this to be true. I have even saw where treasure hunters who do not dowse have found this to be true also. Is this what you guys are talking about when you mention empty holes?....Art