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Thread: 24V Infinity Jet submersible gold sucker.... or so I hope

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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subdredger View Post
    Great post Timberdoodle.

    I think it's great you've taken the time to to run a pump a little different,and try this.

    I will tell you here and now how i get rid of amp draw.
    I have many ways of doing this both with water and electricity.
    With water,its simple all i do is introduced a spin or a vortex going into the intake of the pump,it's like a tornado,or a cone base of cone or vortex in the river going to a point(tapering)right where
    the impeller is being the point and then ad another vein straight after the impeller to vortex the water from a point out.

    It's like if you run one of these pumps out of the water it spins,really fast,but if you add two vortexes going to a point with water ,right where the impeller is,the pump almost free runs,Amps drop right off.
    I'm using the water to my advantage.On start up until water flows amps are high,but as soon as all is going amps drop right off.Schauberger.

    The electrical way i have many,but remember ,someone ask me how i do it,so i told them.
    It was never what i wanted to talk about here as it would take a very big book for people to get it.And this is about dredges not electricity.

    What you say Timberdoodle holds true for the voltage dropping off with this circuit ,its because you are running from a high plus say 36v to a lower plus say 12v.
    What is happening is the batteries are trying to equalize and are equalizing,the 36v drops the 12v chargers,You can now see electricity will charge as you do work and until you came along
    and tried this you can see it is so.

    I have over a hundred different ways of doing this.You have a basic circuit and the other end you have a very complicated circuit.
    The circuit started with Tesla,it's called the tesla switch,then bedini had his take on it.

    I will try my best here to explain here what i do in a high end circuit,and why i will not post the circuit here or anywhere,but i would be prepared to work online with you timberdoodle to put out a easy
    SAFE circuit that people here can use,last thing i want is 6 foot fried salmon on the river bank.Let me know what you think.

    The next thing you have to do Timberdoodle is ,you are going from 36v into 12v ,now flip the circuit so the 12v batteries are now 36v and the 36v are now 12v.
    I flip this hundreds of times per second,so this right here is why my voltage doesn't drop.
    My high end circuit is flipping the positive hundreds of times a second ,then i add a bedini ssg circuit to it.you see bedini has a ssg ciruit and he uses a wheel with magnets on it that spin past a coil,and when the wheel magnets spin past the coil you get a big back voltage spike that also charges your battery.Turn dc off in a coil you get a big spike,back spike,Whats not know is when you turn the power on you get a big forward spike as well.
    But the pump has a coil in it yes?
    pretty sure the pump has magnets in it as well yeh?
    So in the end i'm using the spikes as well to keep the batteries charged.
    So in the end this ciruit has capacitors,300v-600v spikes not what inexperienced people need to be concerned about in or near water.
    My stage2 dredges all use capacitors with this circuit as i don't need to hold power,(amps)All have capacitors on board, no wires, no batteries.
    Ever seen a 6 inch sniper dredge.
    My stage three dredges run a different pump,the stage 1 dredge i put out there as you can buy all the parts ,easy,make it cheap,anyone can.But if you are having such trouble with this, the stage three dredge will be far beyond your understanding.
    So everyone no more pics,reason being look at the post straight after every time i put a photo out there.
    Stage three dredge uses a tesla pump/turbine,look under Nikola tesla patents you will find it.It took me 4 years to get this right,Keene almost have the pump housing correct but if they added another
    intake to it opposite the first they would have two vortexes hitting each other ,change the impellers ,as of tesla patent ,this is the ultimate pump.Might take a little to get your head around it.

    My trap.Lets say we are talking about a three inch pipe out of the nozzle look at the pic with 4 dredges in it,second dredge from the right is a 3 inch with a simple trap.
    water comes out of nozzle and into 3 inch pipe then into a reducer in reverse 3inch reducer to 4 inch in REVERSE.THIS EXPANDS slows the water like a jet flare just before the trap ,like a river going down a gorge into a wide opening.next is a 4 inch t joint with a screw cap on it.dredge all day, undo cap, put pay in pan,pan.
    The 4 inch dredge has a different reducer in reverse.All i have done is cut the pipe right above the trap and bend the back down ,so in the end you have the reducer in reverse and then the pipe also acts as a inside bend of a river.Simple .Gold most certainly goes into trap,secret now is keeping it there.
    Look at a pic with the nozzle,this is where the water comes from for the trap,Notice the flow switch,it must be tuned,No use driving a un -tuned car,no use using a un-tuned dredge.
    The other hose i use to blow crevices or hard pac.
    The dredges have way more power than needed,IF YOUR 1 FOOT UNDER OR A HUNDRED,THE POWER IS THE SAME.
    If you want to run these old school with one battery just buy a big 48v battery,any battery,put a pwm on it pulse width modulator ,this will give you any voltage you want,high voltage to remove overburden,low voltage to get pay and tune the flow to trap.
    Are you running PWM? MPPT? Or something else on your 4" and larger...
    You said,
    Keene almost have the pump housing correct but if they added another
    intake to it opposite the first they would have two vortexes hitting each other ,change the impellers ,as of tesla patent ,this is the ultimate pump.
    Now you're talking about a turbine. I've seen them with up to 8 inputs and that produces tons of power and speed. We have a company here that makes them in our area. Pricey but effective.
    Last edited by Reed Lukens; Dec 11, 2017 at 01:17 AM.

  2. #77

    Nov 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reed Lukens View Post
    Are you running PWM? Or MPPT? on your 4" and larger...
    You said,
    Keene almost have the pump housing correct but if they added another
    intake to it opposite the first they would have two vortexes hitting each other ,change the impellers ,as of tesla patent ,this is the ultimate pump.
    Now you're talking about a turbine. I've seen them with up to 8 inputs and that produces tons of power and speed. We have a company here that makes them in our area. Pricey but effective.
    Try find Nikola tesla's patent.
    Its what i'm doing to this simple bilge pump but in a different way.
    The water going to and from the bilge is like to cones meeting at a point,two tornado's,the point being the impeller,the water once started run's or takes a big part of the load off the pump.
    The Keene pump housing only has one intake point,but nature doesn't work this way.
    If Keene where to put,add,another intake to the other,equal and opposite side of the housing you would get two intakes hitting each other ,spinning,working together flip the impeller 90 degress with disc's use what i was trying to explain earlier with highs and low's or electrical charges to water and you have a great pump.
    Water goes in centre of these disc's via 2 intakes ,direction is critical for the electrical charge of water as you will not pick up negative water,Neg water is acidic or expanding state,Alkaline being contracting positive state or positive forming state,this is the sole reason nobody has understood it.

    It works both way's, add water into the centre of the disc's and out the periphery it's a pump.
    Add water into the periphery and out the centre of the disc's, it a turbine.
    Reed Lukens likes this.

  3. #78
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    Look at the Historical Gold Mining photo albums on my page

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subdredger View Post
    Try find Nikola tesla's patent.
    Its what i'm doing to this simple bilge pump but in a different way.
    The water going to and from the bilge is like to cones meeting at a point,two tornado's,the point being the impeller,the water once started run's or takes a big part of the load off the pump.
    The Keene pump housing only has one intake point,but nature doesn't work this way.
    If Keene where to put,add,another intake to the other,equal and opposite side of the housing you would get two intakes hitting each other ,spinning,working together flip the impeller 90 degress with disc's use what i was trying to explain earlier with highs and low's or electrical charges to water and you have a great pump.
    Water goes in centre of these disc's via 2 intakes ,direction is critical for the electrical charge of water as you will not pick up negative water,Neg water is acidic or expanding state,Alkaline being contracting positive state or positive forming state,this is the sole reason nobody has understood it.

    It works both way's, add water into the centre of the disc's and out the periphery it's a pump.
    Add water into the periphery and out the centre of the disc's, it a turbine.
    I read about Tesla's patent years ago, then I read that Bedini's ssg was patented here first by I think Roger Anderson in 1974? It's old school technology though compared to what you're doing from what I can see because you're building your own pumps correct? We didn't have the need to run silent or quiet and low key here until recently... At one time we would turn cars into dredges here and nobody thought twice about it. But today times are different, because the environmental movement is doing its best to squash all mining of any kind here... So, run silent/ run deep, is the best way because gasoline motors have been or are being outlawed for gold dredging...
    Last edited by Reed Lukens; Dec 11, 2017 at 07:52 AM.

  4. #79

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    yes,make my own pumps.

    And yes silent/deep.

    If you can't hear me,and if you can't see me,then i'm not there am i.
    Reed Lukens likes this.

  5. #80
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    Rob

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    I have so say that the idea of a fluid bed in a submersible is a good idea. I think it's great to see others trying to tackle the problem with subbies especially in fine gold retention. A fluid bed is good because it allows for tuning of the bed separate from the suction/flow and it's hard to control the flow in a over/under design etc.. I am however a skeptic to the ability for fine gold to enter the bed if the flow is not modified in a way to forcefully deliver fine gold out of the fast flow to the collection chamber.

    As far as the electrical discussion goes. I starting reading and watching videos about the "split positive system" when I first came across this thread. One guy trying the simple battery "split the positive circuit" resulted in the simple circuit is complete BS. He took readings constantly, made alot of charts etc.. and when he compared the total energy delivered from the split positive circuit until full discharge to the total energy of the three batteries over time the results showed no gain. Upon posting these results the person who initially posted the simple split positive circuit comes back explaining the need of a special wired motor and Bedini circuit.
    I'm trying not to be too critical or negative but I have some observations.

    1. The simple split positive battery system that was introduced early in this thread to provide 24v is not only wrong in it's application for a bilge pump, but it's very dangerous and people need to know this.
    2. Running a bilge pump on a PWM would allow a 12v bilge pump to run off a 24v battery bank and adjust the duty cycle to provide a bit more speed and PSI. I like this idea because it would allow for an increase in PSI greater than the minimal PSI increase gained by parallel pumps. Still going to draw more current though.
    3. Running a PWM at 50% duty cycle at 24v is the same total power as the pump running on a single 12v battery. That's why fuse doesn't blow. The pump is not running any stronger or providing 2x the flow output.
    4. The Bedini circuit sort of - Simply using the downtime of the PWM duty cycle to use back emf from the spinning pump to charge a battery. Use twice the power and take back half. In reality I haven't seen anyone claim more than 5-10% above COP and they aren't running heavy loads like a bilge pump. EMF braking is not free energy in a bilge pump.
    5. Until pump pressure and flow is actually systematically measured and compared to a pumps 12v baseline including the separate testing of adding vanes for spinning the water etc... I hold alot of reservations about the theories presented. A pressure gauge costs $5. How are you quantifying the gains if you never measured the pressure from a pump as you mentioned?

    I think I have a pretty good grasp of this stuff if you want to post schematics. I spent 20 years in the electronics industry as both a technician and engineer and have spent the past 8 years building stuff like subbies which run off bilge pumps. This stuff is right up my alley.

  6. #81

    Nov 2017
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    The video above is a alluvial pacific dredge.
    It runs a sluice in there with a float on top to try keep it level.
    A sluice in a sub is not what you do,no matter how hard you try.
    The flow dynamics have not been thought out/volume not thought out ,so throw the back half away.
    The pumps on that dredge are 36v 4700gph.Throw them away as well and put on 12v 4700gph pumps and up the voltage.While your there throw the noz away as well.
    The pumps are made like this.
    12v 4700 gph
    24v 4700gph
    36v 4700gph and
    48v 4700gph
    So as you can see different voltages same flow.
    i chose the 12v 4700gph because as you know it has the biggest gauge wires in it.And we all know what happens when you up the voltage,up the voltage in these wires in the 12v,you get less resistance.
    So don't worry about blowing the pump up,it's not going to happen.3 years dredging with this stage one dredge,and all pumps are as new.
    So when i put say 24v in ,its a whole different pump ,putting out serious amounts of water.
    I have tried to explain how i drop the fines,so i will try again.
    Water is so little understood in mainstream anything,the education simply just isn't there for you.
    What it comes down to is water holds memory,electrical charge memory,ph memory,when frozen ,crystal memory.
    When you put water threw different metal pipes etc it changes the electrical charge,ph etc of the water.
    When you put water threw different magnet setups it also changes it.
    Your electric pump has magnets in it whats it doing the the water state?

    What metal is your sluice box made of.
    What is the charge of the water going over your box.
    What is the water ph.
    All these things come into play with fine gold recovery.This is why i use inert materials in my builds.

    Akaline compressed positive water carries your gold.
    Acid expanded water will not carry your gold,it drops out.

    As far as the electrics go just use the pwm.
    I couldn't even start to explain to you how i do it.
    Timberdoodle,Theres alot more going on with electrics than what you may be aware of.
    Your ac/dc is your north south pole electronics ,what about east west ?You end up back where you started,well documented in Ed Ledskalins work and others.
    And in the end it all comes down to how you use the magnets.
    Try this ,Get a couple of ferrite ring magnets,get a washer either s/s or galv,put the 2 north faces together with the washer same circumference as the magnets in the middle.,The 2 north faces now stick together,with 2 south poles at the end,watch the magnetism pull strengthen 10 fold.
    Apply this to your electrics.

  7. #82

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    That magnet setup i just posted can be used to remove black sand from your pay.
    The field effect goes to the washer.
    the washer picks up the sand,remove magnets sand falls off washer.

  8. #83
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    Rob

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    I am a firm believer of having a solid foot on the ground when it comes to theories. I quickly looked up Leedskalnin and he did not believe that an electron exists. If you want to accept his theories you first have to accept that his theories are based on this false understanding was applied to his testing experiences.
    Why does a subbie loose fine gold? Does it have anything to do with positive water? Not really
    In a surface dredge the flow depth is dependent on the width and the flow speed can be adjusted by the angle. For example - If you took the sluice and cut the width in half the flow depth would increase with some increase in speed also which carries some fine gold in the upper flow regimes and out it goes.
    Recorded testing has shown fine gold below 14 mesh has a settling rate that approximately doubles with half the mesh size.
    14 mesh settling spherical = 2.5 feet per second (FPS)
    30 mesh settling spherical = 1.3 fps
    And so on. These are spherical settling rates which are much greater than the settling rates of flat gold based on Corey shape factors. I am going to use these rates because they represent the best case scenario.
    In a flow of 10 feet per second 14 mesh would travel approximately 12 inches to drop 3". That doubles with 30 mesh. And so on.
    In a submersible the balance of sluice width and height is what determines the flow rate. The flow rate must be kept fast enough to keep the large undesired material moving through a sluice. Another caveat is as the size of a submersible dredge increases the flow rate must be increased in the sluice to keep the larger material moving.
    The basic designs like you see in the Aluvial pacific dredge have been around for many years. They employ a long flare after the jet to help the gold to settle before reaching the riffle section.
    So what is the flow rate? Good suction usually puts the flow rate in the 10 feet per second range prior to the jet. The jet adds volume which means velocity must increase after the jet. Roughly a 60/40 ratio of suction vs jet volume is common. So now the velocity after the jet is over 16 feet per second. This velocity is slowly decreased in the flare until the sluice which is usually about 4X the total area (height vs width) of the dredge nozzle and puts the flow rate at 4 Feet per second. At 4 FPS the flow is just enough to keep the larger material in motion and hopefully settle most of the gold to the bottom of the flow where it can be worked be the riffles. All this is compounded by other material and corresponding turbulence which often puts fine gold back up in the water column and prevents gold from settling and out it goes.

    In a submersible reducing the length after the jet without some form of flow modification to force gold out of the upper water column you are relying on settling rate only and it's not in your favor. This is why I questioned the size and location of the fluid bed.

    Most of my experience in electronics was in RF communications. Modifying a magnetic field to provide directivity or "Gain" is nothing new. I don't get a "WOW Really i never understood this" feeling from it at all. Pointing to obscure unverified theories to try and make a point that can't be validated or when the idea is proven false and then blaming the folks for not "understanding" seems to be the way this is going.
    I live on Earth and it is "ROUND"
    Last edited by Timberdoodle; Dec 12, 2017 at 01:41 PM.

  9. #84
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    Rob

    Oct 2012
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    Wow- I find this amazing. The entire technological world surrounding you is built off solid electron theory and practice. You are using it and yet deny it's existence. The more I looked at the free energy videos and websites in the past couple of days the more astounded I was that this culture existed. No more explanation needed.
    Clay Diggins and Goldwasher like this.

  10. #85

    Nov 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timberdoodle View Post
    Wow- I find this amazing. The entire technological world surrounding you is built off solid electron theory and practice. You are using it and yet deny it's existence. The more I looked at the free energy videos and websites in the past couple of days the more astounded I was that this culture existed. No more explanation needed.
    No such thing mate,I never said free energy ,you did.Multiplication of energy for sure.
    I don't use electrons ,as you can't use something that doesn't exist?
    You apparently use it.
    See the word after electron you wrote ,THEORY ,its like the big bang THEORY,crap.
    You say 30 years in electrics but you still don't understand it,What is electricity.
    I will spell it out for you here and now,and this will be the last i speak of it.
    WATER is ELECTRICITY,ELECTRICITY is WATER.Water vapors to be more to the point.
    You will see this in next years Tesla's conference.
    All energy formats must first polarize to do any work,The polarization from a equilibrium out both ways,is your action,expansion,the free ride back to the equilibrium is your reaction implosion.
    Without moisture(vapors )in the air we breath no electrical work can be done.No energy format can do work.
    Notice in a car they call it a air intake and not a electron intake.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subdredger View Post
    Power-google splitting the positive.
    I use 6 tiny,12v batteries,hook 3 in series for 36v and the other 3 in parallel for 12volts.
    treat the 36volt and 12v as two seperate units.
    hook the 36v negative straight to the 12v negative .
    hook the 36v positive to all pumps positive,the negative coming off the pump hook to the 12v positive battery bank.

    This gives you 24v to play with.
    Yes running dredges off 2 positves,Nikola tesla trick.
    What happens is power goes from 36v batts to pumps into the 12v batts and CHARGERS THEM.
    once the three 12v batts in parallel are charged hook them in series for 36v and the the other batts that where 36v hook the inparallel 12v and run the power the other way,
    I use relays now,to do this.
    All day dredging with 6 tiny, high c, rating 12v batts.
    As Don Lancaster would say, this is an adjunct to porcine whole-body cleanliness.

    In other words, total hogwash.
    Clay Diggins likes this.

 

 
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