adding power jet to gravity dredge

[spaghettigold]

"... and I would position this low pressure jet much further up the pipe than you would a high pressure one " Like a suction nozzle ? Does a suction nozzle work more effective?

 

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[rivets]

In a word ... no

Water always finds its level ... in this instance that would be your - - - - and in this illustration you will not have syphonage either to drew/drag the water over the top bend of the pipe ...


Camlocks are great fittings especially ease of set up and take down ... it was funny to see one joined onto that wannabe lay flat stuff

 

[spaghettigold]

In a word ... no

Water always finds its level ... in this instance that would be your - - - - and in this illustration you will not have syphonage either to drew/drag the water over the top bend of the pipe ...


Camlocks are great fittings especially ease of set up and take down ... it was funny to see one joined onto that wannabe lay flat stuff

aah those facts always in the ways of hopes and dreams..thanks rivets

i id not watch the whole vid,took it o show the suction nozzle where the water enters higher up the hose like you suggested.

 

[rivets]

Actually it enters in at a low point ... in reverse with the fall of the pipe ... you need to position your low pressure jet at a point in the pipe where it adds to velocity and not takes from it .... but this would be unique to the fundamentals of where you are syphoning ...

don't confuse pumped pressure with water head/gravity pressure ...


To understand water in relation to its dynamics in a pipe .... stop thinking... and become one with it ... this may sound odd ... but its a feel thing ...

 

[spaghettigold]

back as a kid in school when we had swimming lessons,our teacher let us form a circle at the margin of the pool,then he let us all start walking in circle til the water of the pool started rotating with us. At max speed achievable he gave a sign and all the kids let themself fall in to the water floating with the vortex.One kid alone could not do it but many kids together can. Could multiple jets along the hose watercolumn add up force together ?

 

[spaghettigold]

Actually it enters in at a low point ... in reverse with the fall of the pipe ... you need to position your low pressure jet at a point in the pipe where it adds to velocity and not takes from it .... but this would be unique to the fundamentals of where you are syphoning ...

don't confuse pumped pressure with water head/gravity pressure ...


To understand water in relation to its dynamics in a pipe .... stop thinking... and become one with it ... this may sound odd ... but its a feel thing ...

a missunderstanding maybe,cause the power jet would already be at the lowest point in my normal set up.Sorry rivets,English is not my motherlanguage ,most of the time i ,m writing answers,it takes so long that i can,t post them because t-net tells me i have to refresh the page again

 

[rivets]

Good question ...


Understanding that your syphonage is taking place at a level ( for example 6' higher than your sluice which is a foot or so above the river gradient water surface ... and so to add velocity to this syphon pipe your jet's must be fed from a head pressure exceeding that of where it enters into this syphon pipe in order to add velocity to the water within the pipe which is in effect dragging the water behind it causing your suction


What I am saying is if this head pressure feeding your jets which are venturies/ restrictions is not sufficient it will have the opposite effect and absorb energy from the water and therefore hinder your suction ...


You need to measure the gradients of these specific honey holes you want to dredge and see if it is feasible and if so then work out where to position the low pressure jet into your syphon pipe ...



I would engineer a steam jet and use the trees as fuel

 

[rivets]

Clarity comes to us ... when we see something from different advantage points ... or in other words if we hold to a perception of truth ... it becomes a lie ... because our journey into it ends


There is a way to increase your suction using waters energy ... we just have to listen to the water

 

[spaghettigold]

"and so to add velocity to this syphon pipe your jet's must be fed from a head pressure exceeding that of where it enters into this syphon pipe in order to add velocity to the water within the pipe "
Ouf course always assuming that the hoses feeding the jets have the intakes at least 6 feet higher than the syphon pipe.But the syphon pipe would never be 6 feet above sluice level because in that case i would have sufficient drop to work only by syphonage.The jet scenario only comes into play when there,s only 2 feet or slightly less drop available.

 

[spaghettigold]

Clarity comes to us ... when we see something from different advantage points ... or in other words if we hold to a perception of truth ... it becomes a lie ... because our journey into it ends


There is a way to increase your suction using waters energy ... we just have to listen to the water

Oh yes there are.But remember that the saviors of the universe and theire disciples,together with the ever expanding branches that make theire wages by regulations are lurking around every corner.
If it was for me and if i was allowed to do it ,i would install some inscopicuous 16 feet waterwheels and run an electric dredge.Absolutely co2 neutral,silent,getting gold by gravity,with no fuel costs. Unfortunately the laws for me are ,no motors and nothing mechanical.
But if you can come up with something that fits the laws here where i am,look at my profile pic...i,m all ears


:-)

 

[spaghettigold]

"Clarity comes to us ... when we see something from different advantage points ... or in other words if we hold to a perception of truth ... it becomes a lie ... because our journey into it ends "
If i understand correctly,you mean like somebody once said ,we have to become like children to again be able to believe in something new that is coming our way.
I really appreciate the patience and knowledge brought to me.Thanks guys

 

[rivets]

The question is ... would a large pot ( 5-10 gallon ) of boiling water with a pressure tight lid and a 1/2" pipe coming out of it be considered mechanical by definition and therefore classified as a machine ... seeing machines by definition require several moving parts ?


There is also a difference between causing motion and improving upon it

 

[rivets]

Forgive me this ... but it is of the treasure I seek .... of which it can be likened to refined gold


"you mean like somebody once said ,we have to become like children to again be able to believe in something new that is coming our way"


That somebody was our brother Jesus the pattern Son


"Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.


Reason being ... is that little children don't have preconceptions ... which is to say they don't hold to a truth and therefor enter into it .....

Understanding the kingdom of heaven and the mind of Christ are one and the same truth ....

 

[spaghettigold]

The question is ... would a large pot ( 5-10 gallon ) of boiling water with a pressure tight lid and a 1/2" pipe coming out of it be considered mechanical by definition and therefore classified as a machine ... seeing machines by definition require several moving parts ?


There is also a difference between causing motion and improving upon it

hmm..for the mechanical part..If the vapor doesn,t move parts probably no.,Don,t know about the internal combustion engine definition. But they would certainly find a way .I can,t risk walkin on the edge of legality because i have only a few weeks per year where i can work ,Seizure of equipment for example would be a killer.
But out of curiosity,how would that work? Would the steam be injected in to the jet or the hot water?

 

[rivets]

It will work just like a "pressure cooker " steam is water expanded 1 to 1700 ratio ( awesome power) you have to see this to believe it ... think water jet on xxx steroids ... no moving parts just expansion from heat ...


In effect steam is water in a gas form ... used in a venturi ... will have the same similar effect as in its natural form just needs to enter the pipe/hose further up and the design of the jet would need to be calculated ....


Although I am making it sound more simple than it is and if a person is not experienced with the explosive power of steam ... its best to stay well clear of it

 

[rivets]

In short ... in reference to the venturi effect in adding velocity to your suction/syphon pipe



One way for you ( in this case ) to increase the energy of elevation is to decrease the air pressure by way of vacuum ( domed/covered standpipe ) at the head of this syphon .... but this would require much skill ... understanding 2' head pressure amounts to very little when adding it to a pipe already in labor as it is using its energy to drag/drew from its head ....


Its important to realize that in effect syphonage is the reduction of pressure energy which is then changed into energy of elevation and then back into pressure energy and therefore atmospheric pressure is the determinator ( new word ) understanding water pressure at surface is not zero but equal to the atmosphere above it

 

[spaghettigold]

Sounds too complicated for fast real world application.Like your tenacity too though.

Back to the jet,would this be the orifice?

 

[Timberdoodle]

Yes, the area between your hand and the start of the angled opening is the area of maximum restriction and would be considered the "orifice" in this case. For best operation of converting the water pressure in the feed line to speed I would recommend a cone shaped adapter from the 4" jet inlet to a 6" supply similar to how a fire nozzle is shaped. You could possibly use a actual traffic cone with some clamps to test, just try and get the transitions smooth as possible.

 

[spaghettigold]

Hi timber,it,s a piece of 5 inch pvc tubing i had laying around.will try in the future.What are your thoughts about multiple jets along the hose.Could they add up force?

 

[rivets]

Spaghetti

Scribble a simple drawing of the approximate gradients from where you want to dredge to sluice ... and the gradient of the river as well as the size and lengths of pipes you have at hand .... understanding that a venturi is a restrictor and not always the best option ... as in this case you are not causing flow but wanting to improve upon it


The old GPM PSI scenario