Overstepping their authority.

[MadMarshall]

Prospecting and mining have always been synonymous with failure.. even back in the day.. And many have struck it just to lose it shortly there after. I always enjoyed the history and irony of gold mining.. James Marshall is a prevalent character in California history and can be attributed to wealth and fame. he died a poor man.
I have always held beliefs on mining law and what they stood for and who they protect. I am simple man and sometimes a very literal one. And my take on the mining law reflects that.. I also believe that some of the biggest issue today against mining is that overwhelming misuse of mining law is a direct result of the problems for today.. Now whether these misuses are intentional or just the times changing or some other cause is really not a relevant issue as we are faced with the outcome. Its upon us.. that's to be clear.. and its my wish to exercise mining rights with the intention as they were written.. Now for me more often then not I see individuals using mining rights as recreation or a hobby. Mining law is pretty simple for me .. It give individuals who wish to try and exploit a resource of this land to make a living.. Now when I see claims donated and auctioned off or a club who is very blatant about exploiting the recreational qualities of mining I am disgusted.. And when I see the individuals they associate with and how they go about "EXERCISING THEIR MINING RIGHTS" by staking claims and selling em on ebay or what have you with sometimes absolutely no sampling no care if the claims are economical just the sole purpose of exploiting a hobby I am disgusted.. The list goes on and on..
Anyway I don't have the time to fully explain myself in the distinction between privilege and rights.. But when I see groups and individuals whos whole mission is a farce and trying to unite land users and what have you.. And in doin so destroying and eroding the values that made AMERICA great.. You gentlemen know who you are and what your about.. I don't put claim to your intention or your use of mining law only you can truly account for that.. But I do put claim that AMRA is disease to the rights that mining law has granted me. And that they constantly make a mockery of something I hold dear..

 

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[MadMarshall]

I have always been fond of folk music.


GW I have always admired individuals who take it upon themselves to know how to live and be reliant on the land they live.. Sadly its becoming all to extinct. I have no quarrel with you other then that you choose to speak up for people who wont account for themselves. Not by any disability or lack of knowledge of my accusations. But choose not too. I can not account for why they hide I have my thoughts on the matters but I will keep them silent. Honestly its seems all to simple for them to shut me up .. Just prove me wrong? Regardless... it is what it is and I am who I am. for better for worse.. And ill tell you this .. When someone speaks in regards to me and questions my ethics or actions I always man up at account for it.. I believe in what I say and that's why I find it no problem to stand on the iron and speak my piece.. And yet as always and for years the groups and individuals I speak against wallow in silence.. Honestly I pay no mind.. Ill chip away till something breaks.. It always does and funny thing is I doubt I will be what breaks it.. People will get tired of year after year of no results and talk and putting out the doe for worthless men to do nothing but only better their own station at everyone elses expense.. Time will tell. Honestly I fear not these individuals succeeding in their mission as they are to selfish. But the harm their selfishness will do other men is not something that should be condoned nor forgived.. All I ask is for accountability.. These men are proud of what they stand for then let them be accountable for it? Why cant AMRA be accountable for anything let alone the actions they have put claim to doin? if they put me to rest with truth and fact ill own up to it like a man.. But I sincerely doubt AMRA can account for anything other then supporting ?"AMRA"( Shannon and friends)

Anyway the vids old I just like the song

 

[Goldwasher]

Victor believe it or not for the most part I get where your coming from. I have mentioned more than once I'm not a member. Im not going to get into much of it here as the mods don't like us having conversations.

I will say again I cant stand claim flippers. I also have never seen the degrading issues of the community that you seem to see or deal with. I wish that AMRA did some things differently ,I'm not on the board I don't make them make decisions.

I have stood shoulder to shoulder with them in state buildings working on the same issues that have infact impacted my activities.

They arent going to answer you here...none of the guys you rail against even come to TNET.

My comments stand and I don't even know if you realize how you talk about the average member here.

You even made a remark about me selling sunglasses and paydirt in another thread. It seems to be a away to set yourself above me in some way. Does it bug me ? Yes

Why? cause I literaly haven't done a damned thing to you.

So, I just don't see the separation of disdain you speak of. Even trying to call me out and say I'm "recreational" more than once.
I'm not attacking you I'm standing up for myself just as you claim to be.

Your negative griping complaining posts just get real old. They aren't even changing anything your complaining about and I don't appreciate getting lumped into your broad stroke definition of what non full time prospectors are.

I've asked before for you to explain how these " Men" have caused you actual quantifiable harm or prevented you from doing anything that you want to do.

I never got an answer.

To the Mods...If Victor is going to comment so am I I'm not attacking him and I am trying to be respectful.

I also am trying to not have it be an "argument"

 

[MadMarshall]

GW I regretted that post not long after I wrote it and I considered removing it. And I will not trouble you with an excuse.. But I will say it was done in poor taste and was unwarranted. If you wish I will remove it.. Though I left it as a reminder..

Now as far as the quantifiable harm these men have caused me? One of the biggest problem is . Truth.. When you have individuals that go around pretending to be something more then they are and spreading knowledge that they lack then it effects me.. Honestly for a lot of people prospecting mining is just looking for gold little regard is given to law or land or anything else for that matter only the fun stuff is to be bothered with.. lets take highbanking I bet I can get a dozen AMRA members and ask them what allowed in regards to Highbanking in a paticuliar area here in Cali and I'm willing to bet Ill get a different answer from each.. Contrary to the AMRA mission statement of educating their members.. I see them as taking advantage of a situation. As far as any direct harm or prevented me from my pursuits I cant put claim to that nor I doubt they are actually capable of anything other then breeding ignorance for a price.. All I wish is for people to have a fighting chance and at least have the proper tools to become successful prospectors/miners.. And AMRA and these mining districts clowns and these others are a direct contradiction to that.. I remember my very first years of mining and how much I lost due to advice from people like them.. Honestly every time I got advice from them my pockets jingled less and theirs more. Honestly I came to learn it was like a bum telling me how to get rich with the exception I was paying the bum!!! Anyway maybe you don't see that I have any right to call out certain individuals maybe I don't.. But as it stands its done. its not negative griping in my opinion its a warning for who may wish to listen..

 

[junkhunt]

Does California still charge you $30.oo a year to go into the Angeles National Forest? Talk about over stepping. they charge me to walk and hike in the National Forest that's already mine as an American.

 

[wingmaster]

I know here in Indiana if you join a prospecting group they want you to join the GPAA, but when we needed them to help our fight against shutting down all kinds of prospecting activities they left us on or own. Their to busy with what matters to them which is where they prospect, but they will gladly take your money if you want to join.

 

[mendoAu]

Are you a miner? Yes. But are you actually a full time miner? A person who depends soley on his own mining income? Only you know that answer
To me there's a big difference between the 2 and yes, in my eye's, you are a gold miner, a darn good one at that.

Got some time on my hands and guess I'll unload some thoughts. Ummm,, I'm what some might describe as a full time miner. Live year around on a 60 acre blm claim with another 30 acre site real close and permission to mine on a chunk of private property. Closest gas station is ten miles away and thirty miles from a "big city". Now in Oregon but moved from Calif. after the dredge moritorium. Well, that crap has followed me and the State of Oregon has joined in with stopping every motorized way of stream mining except a sluice box and pan. Wow, what a great way to put gold in the poke!!! So, in my particular case I pondered what has been done to basically put me out of business. Payback...yep, and proceeded to qualify for gov. assistance that gives me a check every month, covers %100 my medical needs free (including over $300 of med's) and $183 in food assistance, energy assistance, etc.. Are you adding it up yet? Even hit up a food bank now and then, altho I pick up a couple of neighbors without the ability to travel back and forth and have been known to drop off some of these tidings to a local prospector that is a bit to "proud" to except "handouts". He's kind of a bone and skin guy that is always pulling up his pants. Maybe I'm looking at things wrong but it wasn't me needing any of these "handouts" before these new rules "for the good of the masses". Now I continue to be a miner, getting gold, perhaps a bit of a criminal in the eyes of Salem but I'll live with that tag. And above all of that I just put that gold in a hidden spot (legally 'cause you don't have to claim or pay taxes on that gold until sold) for my future days and perhaps a good feeling that when I go I'll be leaving a bit to help get my girlfriend by. I used to donate to several "going to help the miners out with court proceedures" outfits but many years ago saw the writing on the wall and stopped those donations.
I guess that at this stage of my long life I'll just sit by the creek, a nice warm fire in the pit, a bit of sippin' gin and a smile of my face when I ponder how for darn near fifty years dredging was legal and cannibus was a jail term and now if I wanted I could legally grow pot (not on blm property) but dredging is illegal. And sometimes my biggest worry is that those darn Russian hackers are watching every keystroke posted from my laptop. Go figure!!!!

 

[winners58]

to the Original Post

from SB637- the use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment, also known as suction dredging, is the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals. This section and Section 5653.1 do not apply to, prohibit, or otherwise restrict nonmotorized recreational mining activities, including panning for Gold.

this needs an interpretation of what it means, the F&G thinks it means anything with a motor used for mining is a suction dredge,
they have been asked for clarification, and have refused and just continue to interpret it to suit whatever they want.
anyone that knows what a suction dredge is would interpret this as; motorized removal of minerals using a vacuum or suction.

this needs to be challenged under the "Plain meaning rule"; there is more than one interpretation, meaning more than just a suction dredge is absurd.
http://www.legintent.com/pa/judicial_consideration.pdf
Ambiguity "means 'susceptible to more than one interpretation or where a literal construction would produce absurd consequences.
taking peoples water pumps or foot valves or high-bankers or air compressors is absurd

 

[Goldfinger450]

I see this kind of subject and then the in Salem get mentioned and the anger comes on strong, Best advice I can come up with is to get permission on Private land to mine. Impeach Gov. Kate Brown for TREASON, convict her then HANG her by the neck until DEAD. Have rope will travel.

 

[MadMarshall]

this needs an interpretation of what it means, the F&G thinks it means anything with a motor used for mining is a suction dredge,
they have been asked for clarification, and have refused and just continue to interpret it to suit whatever they want.
anyone that knows what a suction dredge is would interpret this as; motorized removal of minerals using a vacuum or suction.

this needs to be challenged under the "Plain meaning rule"; there is more than one interpretation, meaning more than just a suction dredge is absurd.
http://www.legintent.com/pa/judicial_consideration.pdf
Ambiguity "means 'susceptible to more than one interpretation or where a literal construction would produce absurd consequences.
taking peoples water pumps or foot valves or high-bankers or air compressors is absurd

I have heard stories of SB637 bein used to confiscate high bankers and even heard tale that someone had their sluicebox confiscated under SB637. Though that's all I can account for is just stories. I find these stories and such are commonly found and used by mining rights orginazations to stir the pot and rally support and donations.. But I suspect they are just stories. I have yet to see any actual evidence or actual first hand accounting of such instances.. I suppose that F&G could be guilty of what you say but I honestly haven't seen it.. Not to say F&G are saints but in this regards I just havent see them enforcing SB637 in any form other then dredging...
Now if you have evidence to the contrary I will gladly like to hear about it.... Other then an AMRA post that is..

 

[winners58]

My hypotheses is it was done that way for a reason, if California waterboard does go with an NPDES
that permit is for "point source discharge" suction dredge, sluice box, its possible right down to a gold pan.
if they go with just a "letter permit" they would still have almost the same outcome with that definition. (anything motorized)

Oregon is that way, they had LEO's harassing family's that just wanted to pan for gold,
now they have classified panning as an existing use, you only have to apply for the NPDES for dredging,
sluicing and other non-motorized discharges, still have to download and keep a copy close by, and follow BMP's section

In addition, this permit regulates discharges from in-water non-motorized equipment such as a hand sluice box,
mini rocker box, or hand suction device

copy of 700pm to download; http://www.oregon.gov/deq/FilterPermitsDocs/700pmpermit.pdf

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Please keep politics out of forum.

Sent from my P008 using Tapatalk

 

[ncclaymaker]

I can state, that while the Goldwell is "over priced" to most... remember, you get what you pay for. Last year alone, while working a honey pot at the terminus of an old 1840's sluice, the fines that they let fly by, Bernies engineering design skills worked, and caught me a considerable payday. All I did was set the sluice at 8.5 to 10 degrees, level the bugger, and pre-classify the input. The rest was payday. The only issues are weight and the lack of marketing skills by the inventor/producer. The copycat version (or the thief of intellectual property), is that the Canadian copy will wear out and eventually self destruct. I can only suggest that TN people do not support the knock-off people, the don't create, they steal.

The reason that I know the approximate year... the bricks holding up the sluice, they were stamped with the year. Rotted rough cut wood does not occur in nature, nor run a few hundred feet in the mud.

 

[Goldwasher]

I can state, that while the Goldwell is "over priced" to most... remember, you get what you pay for. Last year alone, while working a honey pot at the terminus of an old 1840's sluice, the fines that they let fly by, Bernies engineering design skills worked, and caught me a considerable payday. All I did was set the sluice at 8.5 to 10 degrees, level the bugger, and pre-classify the input. The rest was payday. The only issues are weight and the lack of marketing skills by the inventor/producer. The copycat version (or the thief of intellectual property), is that the Canadian copy will wear out and eventually self destruct. I can only suggest that TN people do not support the knock-off people, the don't create, they steal.

The reason that I know the approximate year... the bricks holding up the sluice, they were stamped with the year. Rotted rough cut wood does not occur in nature, nor run a few hundred feet in the mud.

Wouldn't that mean it could have been set up any time after 1840......