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Thread: California to Allow Suction Dredging in 2019?

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwasher View Post
    lol natural occuring elements are also defined as minerals.. Due to lack of crystal structure mercury and opal are known as "mineraloids"

    cool story

    So, you were still breaking the law
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwasher View Post
    and don't come back with
    ' it wasn't naturally occuring"

    it's in the waterway your dredging..it's mercury ..it's a mineral

    pretty sure it's against tnet rules to encourage an act as legal when by definition it is not...
    Mercury is a mineraloid not a mineral. A mineraloid is not a mineral.

    A mineraloid is a naturally occurring, inorganic solid that does not exhibit crystallinity. It may have the outward appearance of a mineral, but it does not have the “ordered atomic structure” required to meet the definition of a mineral. Some mineraloids also lack the “definite chemical composition” required to be a mineral.

    To be considered a mineral, a material must meet the following five requirements:

    1) naturally occurring
    2) inorganic
    3) solid
    4) ordered atomic structure
    5) definite chemical composition

    https://geology.com/minerals/mineraloids/
    Last edited by chlsbrns; Jun 07, 2018 at 04:49 PM.

  2. #17
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    the part of the wortd "oid" literally means "form of"

    mineraloid means "form of mineral"

    it does in fact form crystals in its solid form!

    Mercury is classified as a "metallic mineral"

    Metallic Minerals List

    It is the only liquid metal at room temperature

    it is known as a secondary "mineral"

    Pretty much every reputable mineral guide lists it as a mineral even though it is a "mineraloid"

    It falls under the same laws as other metallic minerals in regards to mining law.

    In the Dana classifacation system it is actually in the same catagory as gold

    As far as dredging goes it falls under the same laws. You can file a claim to mine it. Considering that can only be done for "valuable minerals"

    For all intents and purposes Mercury is a mineral

    It is a mineral and you can not legally dredge for it in California
    Last edited by Goldwasher; Jun 07, 2018 at 05:28 PM.

  3. #18
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    USGS lists it as a "mineral commodity" by name

  4. #19
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwasher View Post
    the part of the wortd "oid" literally means "form of"

    mineraloid means "form of mineral"

    it does in fact form crystals in its solid form!

    Mercury is classified as a "metallic mineral"

    Metallic Minerals List

    It is the only liquid metal at room temperature

    it is known as a secondary "mineral"

    Pretty much every reputable mineral guide lists it as a mineral even though it is a "mineraloid"

    It falls under the same laws as other metallic minerals in regards to mining law.

    In the Danaclassifacation system it is actually in the same catagory as gold

    As far as dredging goes it falls under the same laws. You can file a claim to mine it. Considering that can only be done for "valuable minerals"

    For all intents and purposes Mercury is a mineral

    It is a mineral and you can not legally dredge for it in California

    " Since Mercury is a liquid, it lacks a crystal structure and technically is not really a mineral but a mineraloid. However, most reputable mineral guides, including the acclaimed Dana's System of Mineralogy, categorize Mercury together with the "true" minerals"

    Mercury: The mineral native Mercury information and pictures

  6. #21
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    yep like I said considered a mineral so your whole dredging scheme is not legal..

    thanks for clarifying that
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldwasher View Post
    yep like I said considered a mineral so your whole dredging scheme is not legal..

    thanks for clarifying that
    Wow! That's a scary interpretation of my last post!

  8. #23
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    because its a metal it is classified as an uncommon mineral for the purposes of mining
    you can dredge mercury as remediation all it requires is a two page form, they have to do a EIS
    if you have the right credentials they will give you a finding of no significant impact for your project.
    otherwise its illegal to have a suction dredge within 100 yards of a closed waterway in Californian period...
    Last edited by winners58; Jun 07, 2018 at 07:47 PM.
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  9. #24
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    No loophole to dredging period!!

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by winners58 View Post
    because its a metal it is classified as an uncommon mineral for the purposes of mining
    you can dredge mercury as remediation all it requires is a two page form, they have to do a EIS
    if you have the right credentials they will give you a finding of no significant impact for your project.
    otherwise its illegal to have a suction dredge within 100 yards of a closed waterway in Californian period...
    Steel, stainless steel ECT are metals are they minerals too?

    Can you back up your statements? Any of them? Provide the two page form?

    What is the legal definition of a suction dredge?

    Under new state law effective January 1, 2016, the use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment is defined to mean the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals.

    Again mercury is not a mineral! You could also be recovering broken bottles, pull tabs, trash and a multitude of other things that aren't minerals.
    Last edited by chlsbrns; Jun 07, 2018 at 09:24 PM.

  11. #26
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    that's only a definition from a larger set of regulation might, look under Section 228, Title 14, California Code of Regulations
    people that get busted usually get two charges one for using a suction dredge and one for having a suction dredge near a closed waterway
    they don't have to prove intent, in fact what they have been doing is confiscating dredges then saying it is evidence
    then saying they have up to a year to actually file charges, it's mainly F&G wardens some other LEO's and sheriffs they know the laws are wrong
    and will not bother with miners or just pass the info to the F&G, lots of people are dredging in California.
    So you got away with dredging in California, good for you...
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by winners58 View Post
    that's only a definition from a larger set of regulation might, look under Section 228, Title 14, California Code of Regulations
    people that get busted usually get two charges one for using a suction dredge and one for having a suction dredge near a closed waterway
    they don't have to prove intent, in fact what they have been doing is confiscating dredges then saying it is evidence
    then saying they have up to a year to actually file charges, it's mainly F&G wardens some other LEO's and sheriffs they know the laws are wrong
    and will not bother with miners or just pass the info to the F&G, lots of people are dredging in California.
    So you got away with dredging in California, good for you...
    I read Section 228. They wrote intent into their definition so they have to prove intent. If they left out the last 5 words of their definition (in order to recover minerals) they would not have to prove intent.

  13. #28
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    Does your dredge have fish oil and burlap in it?

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by N-Lionberger View Post
    Does your dredge have fish oil and burlap in it?
    Nope not in California but locally it is close by. The pic is a FEW of the bars made from SOME of my share of last years gold obtained solely from fish oil, burlap and a grease table.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by chlsbrns; Jun 08, 2018 at 02:39 AM.
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