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Thread: Dawn of the stealth dredge

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  1. #46

    May 2020
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    35 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Ive got a power source coming next week, and with that I will be able to take it to a local river and see how it goes through real material.

    Its not a terribly quite generator unfortunately, so I might have to experiment to get it quieter if i decide to. On the other hand its small, light and quite powerful for its weight. If one can believe the specifications they put out for it.
    Phil likes this.

  2. #47

    May 2020
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Oh, and a few people mention keep mentioning jets. This nozzle doesn't have jets; Or at least, it has only 1 jet, shooting inwards at a full 360 degrees. The 4 smaller flexible hoses are there just to get the pressurized water into the first chamber, where it equalizes around the sleeve and then shoots into the main line. I can put together a cross section of it, if that would help people visualize it?
    Last edited by LeeOregon; Jul 28, 2020 at 08:17 PM.

  3. #48

    Dec 2012
    34
    59 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeOregon View Post
    Oh, and a few people mention keep mentioning jets. This nozzle doesn't have jets; Or at least, it has only 1 jet, shooting inwards at a full 360 degrees. The 4 smaller flexible hoses are there just to get the pressurized water into the first chamber, where it equalizes around the sleeve and then shoots into the main line. I can put together a cross section of it, if that would help people visualize it?

    That would be great. From the pictures, I thought you built Gould's jet.
    Clay Diggins likes this.

  4. #49

    May 2020
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Click image for larger version. 

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    It comes in 3 parts, each a different color in the diagram. The translucent part is the sleeve, which is able to slide back and forth in order to increase or decrease the gap between the two tapered sections. Its these 2 tapered sections that form the jet, 360 degrees around the center section to accelerate water/material down the hose. The 4 smaller hoses just feed water into the cavity around the center section, allowing the water they carry to equalize within the housing and then jet down the pipe.

    Does that help?
    Reed Lukens and Jim in Idaho like this.

  5. #50

    May 2020
    31
    35 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is a sketch of the basic concept, from elsewhere on this forum. I just reduced the need for the 24" section drawn in it, which is included in order to give the pressurized water that is injected into the outer cavity perpendicular to the ultimate direction of flow, time to turn 90 degrees and become more laminar again.

    Since my water is injected into the back of the housing, its already traveling in the correct direction.
    Last edited by LeeOregon; Jul 28, 2020 at 11:46 PM.
    DizzyDigger and Reed Lukens like this.

  6. #51

    Dec 2012
    34
    59 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I hate to say it, especially after bickering with the naysayers, but what you built is not an Infinity Jet...........It's an inefficient power jet.

    Give it a try though and let us know the results.
    Clay Diggins likes this.

  7. #52

    May 2020
    31
    35 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Now im confused. What is an infinity jet then? A power jet is this:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Pressurized water injected into the main path on one or more sides. The more ports that you have the better it performs, but more complexity/fabrication. The infinity jet takes the port and spreads it all the way around, so that its injecting water in a full circle along the perimeter. I definitely haven't built a power jet here. My water is injected in all along the perimeter of the main path, at a sharp 11 degrees.
    Last edited by LeeOregon; Jul 29, 2020 at 01:07 AM.
    Reed Lukens likes this.

  8. #53

    Dec 2012
    34
    59 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by LeeOregon View Post
    Now im confused. What is an infinity jet then? A power jet is this:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Pressurized water injected into the main path on one or more sides. The more ports that you have the better it performs, but more complexity/fabrication. The infinity jet takes the port and spreads it all the way around, so that its injecting water in a full circle along the perimeter. I definitely haven't built a power jet here. My water is injected in all along the perimeter of the main path, at a sharp 11 degrees.

    Calling it a "power jet" was a poor choice of words on my part. The point I was trying to make is, power jets are simple but very inefficient so you have to throw a lot of water and pressure at it. Your design will work too........But you are going to need a LOT more volume and pressure (Any design, no matter how inefficient, will work if you throw a lot of water and pressure at it).

    Plainly stated, when you tried to fix what you perceived as inefficiencies with the design of the Infinity Jet (By making it shorter and injecting water into the back of the housing), you removed the two design components that make the Infinity Jet work. And please understand I am not trying to insult or discourage innovation. Many people have tried to make a more efficient dredge for decades (Myself included), and there are plenty of naysayers out there (like those above) that will say you are wasting your time, "reinventing the wheel" etc etc etc Ignore them.

    You should call have called your post THE DAWN OF THE 3-D PRINTER because resins that withstand high pressure have only been on the market for a few years. As such, somebody is going to take past ideas that could not be turned into reality due to manufacturing limitations or cost, and revolutionize the industry by printing the parts needed to make a very efficient dredge.

    My two cents............Start over from scratch by printing an Infinity Jet without making any changes to the design, and get it to work using the smallest pump possible...............Then begin making changes to find the most efficient setup.
    Reed Lukens and Clay Diggins like this.

  9. #54
    Charter Member
    us
    Look at the Historical Gold Mining photo albums on my page

    Jan 2013
    Huntington, Or./ Stanton, AZ/ former Outlaw California Gold Dredger
    Tesoro Vaquero, Whites MXT, Vsat, GMT, 5900Di Pro, Minelab GPX 5000, GPXtreme, 2200SD, Excalibur 1000!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeOregon View Post

    3”and 4” dredge pump specifications.
    P180 pump produces up to 250 GPM and up to 160 foot head.
    -3”and 4” suction nozzle works at 106 GPM at 45 psi
    -3” and 4” power jet runs at 180 GPM at 35 psi .
    These numbers might be Keene but it's a misprint if it is... The P180 runs at about 350gpm and a 3" dredge will run almost perfectly on 225gpm but not much less. A lot of the smaller Keene dredges are severely underpowered for production. The last line in the quote above should read 300gpm, not 180. The suction nozzle numbers are ridiculously low because a 400gpm pump is needed to run a 4" suction nozzle with their 16" wide box system. Their P180 will put out just enough water to almost run a 4" suction nozzle... but it's still not enough to run their 16" wide box the way it was designed.
    Aside from that, your looking for numbers for a 3", so figure 200-225gpm to be happy unless you're going to reduce down to a 12" wide Keene style box, where a 150gpm should be fine.
    Phil, Clay Diggins and russau like this.

  10. #55
    Charter Member
    us
    Look at the Historical Gold Mining photo albums on my page

    Jan 2013
    Huntington, Or./ Stanton, AZ/ former Outlaw California Gold Dredger
    Tesoro Vaquero, Whites MXT, Vsat, GMT, 5900Di Pro, Minelab GPX 5000, GPXtreme, 2200SD, Excalibur 1000!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeOregon View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Here is a sketch of the basic concept, from elsewhere on this forum. I just reduced the need for the 24" section drawn in it, which is included in order to give the pressurized water that is injected into the outer cavity perpendicular to the ultimate direction of flow, time to turn 90 degrees and become more laminar again.

    Since my water is injected into the back of the housing, its already traveling in the correct direction.
    You don't need 24" because you will just be creating more pressure loss, the infinity jets work great as they were designed, so cut yours in half at least for a 3". The water only has the one way out and it will create more pressure - the shorter you can keep it.
    Reggie Gould was a really smart inventor, we spent many hours together back in the day discussing his dredge and our other designs that our group of friends were using every afternoon at Pioneer Mining. There was a group of us that got together at least 3 times a week, he gave me one of his dredges to try and it worked great back in the day when his parts were all welded together. We discussed everything from 2" to 12" dredges and how to best customize them. It was lots of fun and I do miss those days with our drawn out discussions on gold mining of all types. I built my first dredge back in the 80's based on a 3" Frieson Dredge with innertubes for floats and armor weave riffles in the last section... Happy times
    I miss dredging in California, but Oregon, Idaho and Arizona works just fine...
    Last edited by Reed Lukens; Jul 30, 2020 at 12:13 PM.
    russau likes this.

  11. #56
    Make America Great Again

    Apr 2013
    Oregon
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    info on the infinity jet, has some calculations/efficiency
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    Last edited by winners58; Jul 31, 2020 at 12:37 AM.
    russau likes this.
    " A pessimist is an optimist with experience "

  12. #57

    Dec 2009
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    22 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
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    Nice drawing, though.

  13. #58
    us
    May 2009
    Sailor Flat, Ca.
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    my favorite part about these threads is that the always include pictures of the things that actually work...

    yet there will be page after page describing how to make something work almost just as good...

    weird.

  14. #59

    May 2005
    St. Louis, missouri
    6,014
    4738 times
    Well I for one don't work near as good as I used to and DON'T plan on changing anytime soon !

 

 
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