fish and dust

[GoldenNerd]

Upper Yuba River Mercury Studies Program | USGS California Water Science Center

"Fine-grained sediment (silt and clay) contains higher concentrations of Hg than coarse-grained sediment (sand) in the main channel of the South Yuba River and in nearby stream-bank deposits. Suction dredging disturbs the sediment in the stream bed. Although dredging may remove heavy minerals (including gold, gold-mercury amalgam, and free elemental Hg) from coarse-grained sediment (sand and possibly also coarse silt), it does not remove them from fine-grained sediment (fine silt and clay), nor does it remove Hg-bearing particles of lighter density. Fine-grained, Hg-laden sediment that passes through a dredge is likely to be mobilized and transported downstream, causing increased concentrations of mercury that can potentially become methylated and then bioaccumulated in the food web."

I never insulted his daughter. Perhaps, in fact, she can run a group session for both of you. If you're confused I suggest a careful re-reading of the relevant posting.

Hard Prospector is correct; time to let this thread die. It's devolved quite rapidly.

 

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[Goldwasher]

Gold dredgers don't dredge silt and clay on purpose because thats not where the Gold is unless your a newb...sometimes to open up a hole it is also the easiest and most moved material by mother nature seasonally....that is why it is built up in resvoirs behind dams those same dams that have had more of a negative impact on fish than dredging has. Funy how when a study is created to find out a certain thing it tends to do so...even though numerous other studies never came up with the same set of facts? Interesting when you research the people behind the studies and who they work for. But, I'm just crazy Politics and influence are never involved just honest science.

 

[Goldwasher]

I realize there is clay and fine sediment through out stream bed material...my point is no one dredges clay and sediment specifically in concentrations. The whole thing is blown out of reality...so are we supposed to just leave the Hg and let it slowly move down stream and more so during floods? If you dredge some material and it contains a certain amount of hg and your plume deposits a smaller percentage is that really pollution? Is it going to cause more harm in the long run to let it be or remove some of it or even as dredgers do a large amount of it. if its not being introduced anymore is it not beneficial to remove some of it year after year?

 

[Fullpan]

I can see you are interested in becoming more informed nerd - here is some further links to mercury problem. Keep in mind that we think dredging is the Best Management Practice (BMP) and we use the Best Available Technology (BAT). Sometimes cheaper IS better - the scientists and green non-profits lose sight of the tax money involved, all too often. A poor analogy to the percentage of recovery of mercury, is the catalytic converter on autos - do they capture a 100% ? - no. Are they worthwhile ? - yes. The 1st link is about Malakoff which is the source of the mercury in your link. The second link is the amount of your money spent on "studies" there. My guess the total price tag will be 3 - 5 million to fix the problem.

http://www.sacriver.org/files/documents/dtmc-documents/201401_2_HumbugCreekWatershedAssessment.pdf

Bond Accountability

And here is link to the whole nine yards concerning mercury remediation - note that throughout the presentation, nobody claims 100% capture - in fact, quite the opposite. A quote from the Combie reservoir "pilot project" - ... The silt-size particles of sediment are not effectively captured, and require additional treatment". Also the last segment is revealing of lack of concern for your money...

CLU-IN | Hg Remediation in Aquatic Environments

 

[Aufisher]

I am a trained hydrologist. I have held drinking and waste water treatment plant operator certificates. I believe the public has been dupped by B.S propaganda, fear and a poor understanding of the facts. Limiting dredging is a farce.

 

[Goldwasher]

3000 permits a year there was never ever ever a day where 3000 dredges were running....3000 is 1/10000 of the state population....so 1/10000 of the population is the reason for any problem with any of our waterways.....sure that makes total sense.....cities, agriculture urban sprawl, over development for the sake of over paid developers, traffic freeways, those things that all the population contribute too goes unchecked...less of it is actually viewed as a bad thing ever heard the phrase " SHRINKING ECONOMY"?......and on any given day when it was allowed there could not have been more than 500 active dredgers.......and were arguing about our impact on the environment...what a joke.

 

[Aufisher]

I mine and have eaten several thousands of pounds of seafood I catch. I am educated and do not live my life in fear. Banning lead and mercury removal from our drinking supplies is idiotic.

 

[Fullpan]

Since we have more or less hijacked the Drywasking forum over this, I will be happy to answer more questions from nerd on the Combie sticky on top of the
"dredging and Hi-banking sub forum". Just one more rant - the Sierra Fund quotes 8 references to justify the "terror" that is mercury in fish tissue. Only one reference has anything to do with actual mercury poisoning in calif. And it is about rich folks in the bay area who eat too much Swordfish, Shark, and Ahi.

Like it or not: Mercury threat exists in Gold Country fish | In El Dorado County

Mercury levels in high-end consumers of fish.

And the treatment these people received for mercury poisoning was ? You guessed it, - stop eating fish.

 

[Hard Prospector]

Looks like pleading for calm was unrealistic........Sometimes I guess a good old fashioned a$$ woop'n is unavoidable.

 

[Goldwasher]

Nothin' wrong with facts and standing up for whats right...thread is mercury related and concerns all aspects of small scale mining. This whole conversation is very relevant. Don't really know how you can label it " Negative"

 

[rodoconnor]

Hard Prospector; We're calm Buddy. And you're right, sometimes a good ol fashioned a$$ whipping is called for!

 

[Fullpan]

BTW - just so you don't think I'm a pure research junkie, I have close to 2 lbs of mercury, well secured at my home. I recovered this when dredging in the area around Malakoff. And further, the merc was in puddles in depressions of a hard-pack layer about 8 ft. above true bedrock, so the next good flood would have sent it merrily on its way to the bay area - you're welcome.

 

[IMPDLN]

What a bunch of mule fritters. No offense nerd, but you are sadly misinformed. You sound like your knowledge is tainted and you aren't smart enough to see through the hype. I suggest you study a little deeper into the subject, and someplace besides an environmentalists point of view. Try reading some real scientific documentation from a third party study. Not a government or Sierra Club type manipulated interpretation. Dennis

 

[Hard Prospector]

What a bunch of mule fritters. No offense nerd, but you are sadly misinformed. You sound like your knowledge is tainted and you aren't smart enough to see through the hype. I suggest you study a little deeper into the subject, and someplace besides an environmentalists point of view. Try reading some real scientific documentation from a third party study. Not a government or Sierra Club type manipulated interpretation. Dennis

You strike me as being an educated man Dennis.....I'm glad your on our side

 

[Duckwalk]

I'm not as experienced as others here but I will say the educated and experience are 2 different things.

 

[IMPDLN]

Actually I never graduated high school. Got a little ol' GED. It ain't rocket science. A person just has to be smart enough to think for themselves and not just be a follower. Too many sheeple out there these days. Dennis

 

[cazisme]

It would seem to me that if mercury is so bad for us they wouldn't be making light bulbs that break outa it by the milions. They then should figure out that all those millions of mercury thermometers, mercury containing inocculations and dam near every thermostat built prior to 1985 is full of mercury. All this crap goes to dump were it enters the water/ecosystem way more that any miners ever used.Maybe we can get a grant to dredge the dumps.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Wonder if he wants to go a few rounds with me?

Yes I am back. Wifey let me out of my promise (also known as miner's prison) to start mining again. So we're off.

 

[benny]

Guess I'll throw my 2¢ into the pot. I'm no expert, but my understanding is that the real killer here is methyl mercury which is formed in lake bottoms and slow moving water by organisms. If the dredgers were to remove the elemental mercury from up stream, then the levels of methyl mercury down stream would drop. If dredging were allowed, then perhaps some day you could eat those trout.

Methylmercury - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Fullpan]

Yes, you got it right, the methylmercury is silt-sized but it comes from liquid mercury in the rivers. I asked an environmental professor here at University of Nevada, who is working on air pollution of mercury coming from China. "How many silt-sized particles are produced from the breaking-up of 1 lb. of liquid mercury?"... She answered "in the billions". So, its common sense to clean up the liquid merc, and dredging small-scale is the best way. They will spend billions on huge projects, and the taxpayers remain uninformed - oh well.