INPUT NEEDED -- Regarding Counter-Weight system for Equinox shafts...

[basstrackerman]

id love a carbon fiber shaft with an S bend in it. I bet it would be very hard to build. not sure it would help but who knows.

I hear you, on the S-Shaft; like I was saying to fuceye, I have seen this debate before, and so for those who love the S-Shaft, I'd love to build one. It sounds like a pretty daunting challenge, though!

Thanks!

Steve[/QUOTE]

 

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[oneguy]

last thing anybody wants or needs is more weight. Buy a bungee setup for $25 or fab your own for less, problem solved...…….

 

[sgoss66]

oneguy --

I appreciate the sentiment, and it's the same thing smokeythecat says. This is why I will be offering them as an OPTION, not as part of the "standard package" with the shafts.

But, to say "the last thing anybody wants or needs is more weight," I would beg to differ. I have MANY customers ASKING for me to provide them with counterweights. ​

I totally get that many folks want the machine as light as possible. And from that perspective, I offer that. With my complete shaft system, and no counterweights added, the EQX will be light -- roughly 2.75 pounds, versus 3 pounds with the stock Minelab shaft.

On the other hand, some folks are not pleased with the balance of the Equinox, and have stated so publicly (and also many have done so privately, to me, over the past several months). And so, I am seeking a way to help solve that problem, for these folks -- hence my work on the counterweights. Many have expressed interest in this type of solution -- even though it adds OVERALL weight to the machine, it redistributes the weight such that balance is achieved, and balance is a very comfortable thing.

I know the counterweights are not for EVERYONE; that's why they are an option. Harnesses are not for everyone, either. I used one for a little while with my Explorer, while recovering from a bout of "tennis elbow." I HATED that thing! So I'm simply trying to please as many customers as possible -- the "I want it as light as it can be" crowd, AND the "I want it balanced" crowd. I guess the "I want an S-Shaft" subset of users are the group I'm having the most trouble figuring out how I might please...

Thanks!

Steve

 

[sgoss66]

id love a carbon fiber shaft with an S bend in it. I bet it would be very hard to build. not sure it would help but who knows.

Yep, hard to build, indeed. Even if I were to get the carbon-fiber supplier to sell me an "S-shaped tube," and then go from there, that does NOT solve the difficulty. That's one hurdle, yes. BUT -- jumping that hurdle, and then you only open a whole NEW can of worms -- such as, what ANGLE do you want the handle (within the S-curve) to lie at?

This was the whole debate happening when Minelab built the E-Trac. Many complained about wrist pain using the Explorer, because of the "wrong" handle angle of the Explorer. So Minelab tweaked/adjusted that "handle angle," when designing the E-Trac, to please folks. It worked for some, not others. For me personally, I used the Explorer series for 7 years. And eventually, my wrist "got used to" that uncomfortable handle angle (as much as is possible). Anyway, with my wrist and hand and forearm muscles then optimized to tolerate that Explorer handle angle, I had an interesting experience.

Right before a trip to the beach, my Explorer died, leaving me with no multi-freq. unit to tackle the wet salt sand/surf with. So I borrowed a hunting buddy's E-Trac for that trip, with its "improved" handle angle. And guess what? I started experiencing the EXACT same wrist pain I had, when I started out with the Explorer! What was supposed to be a "better" angle (and maybe it IS), was NOT better, for someone whose wrist/hand/arm was used to swinging an EXPLORER, and ITS handle angle, for all that time!


Things like this are why I would not want to touch an S-shaft with a 10-foot pole! I work hard to have my customers "happy" with what I build them. The last thing I'd want, is a whole subset of customers angry with me, reporting that I made the handle angle "wrong!"


Point being "right" or "wrong" is relative in this type of case -- as it depends upon the individual.

Steve​

 

[sgoss66]

Everyone --

After a couple of days of thinking, partially shaped by feedback from many folks (thanks to all) -- I believe I am very close to finalizing the design for the counterweigh system, enough to order parts for prototype testing. My plan is to produce the counterweights from 35mm O.D. x 33mm I.D. carbon-fiber tubes. They will screw into the butt-end of the shaft via threaded connectors, and will be capped by a threaded end cap. The threaded end cap will allow for easy addition/removal of weight, as the customer desires. I will also be purchasing a supply of heavy-duty ziplock bags, which will be of roughly the same diameter as the inside of the carbon-fiber tube. The bags will be of various heights -- to accommodate several different amounts of weight (lead pellets). I will ship either WITH lead included, or without, depending upon customer desire. I plan to supply 2" tall bags (to accommodate roughly 8 - 10 oz. of weight), 3" tall bags (to accommodate roughly 12 to 15 oz. of weight), and 6" tall bags (to accommodate roughly 24-30 oz. weight).

Using 35mm O.D. tubes, the top of the counterweight tube will be on the same plane as/flush with the bottom of the arm cuff. I expect to be able to keep the weights to a maximum of 6" length or less, per customer specification (6" being long enough to accommodate the weight needed to fully balance the 15" coil). Purchase of a roughly 6" counterweight would therefore allow any combination of weight (via pellets in the plastic bags) to be added or removed, simply by removing the end cap. Shorter counterweights will be constructed in the same way (likely in roughly 2" and 4" lengths), and -- while still including the threaded end cap and plastic bags, so as to be "customizable" in terms of the amount of weight, the shorter-length tubes would of course not accommodate quite as much weight.

At this point, calculations show that 2 1/2" or so of tube length will hold roughly 12 oz. weight, 4.75" or so will hold roughly 25 oz. of weight, and 5 1/2" or so will hold 28 oz. weight.

I chose to specifically mention 12 oz., 25 oz., and 28 oz. as the weights to use as example tube lengths, for this reason:

Assuming "average" lower shaft adjustment length, and a "reasonable" shaft angle, relative to the ground (i.e. swinging the coil a moderate/reasonable distance out from your feet)…

12 oz. is roughly the amount of weight needed to COMPLETELY BALANCE the machine with 6" coil.

12 oz. is ALSO roughly the amount of weight needed to offset the weight difference between the 6" coil and the 12" x 15" coil; said another way, 12 oz. counterweight will make the machine feel the same when swinging the 12" x 15" coil, as it would when swinging the 6" coil with NO counterweight.

25 oz. is roughly the amount of weight needed to COMPLETELY BALANCE the machine for the 11" coil.

28 oz. is roughly the amount of weight needed to COMPLETELY BALANCE the machine for the 12" x 15" coil.

I would like to stress again, that it's completely up to the user as to the amount of counterweight which is "right" for their needs/desires/preferences. Some may wish for COMPLETE balance, for the larger coils; others may wish to only offset the additional weight added when using one of the larger coils. Still others may wish only for a few ounces of counterweight, just to "help a little." And of course, MANY folks will prefer no counterweights at all -- preferring instead the benefits of a lighter machine, as afforded by the carbon-fiber shaft without counterweights.

The bottom line is this -- this design of the counterweight system will allow complete customer flexibility in terms of exactly what length of counterweight they wish for me to produce for them, and exactly what amount of weight they wish to include in that tube.

Thanks all, for all your input. These interactions have been quite helpful toward finalizing the design. I think that at this point, with the weights as an optional accessory, this design will allow the most flexibility possible in terms of individual customer wishes -- ranging anywhere from NO COUNTERWEIGHT AT ALL (and thus a lighter machine than when using the stock shaft system), all the way up through fully balancing the 12" x 15" coil via roughly 28oz. counterweight -- plus any other combination of desired counterweight/balance in between.

Thanks!

Steve

 

[tomtom]

Sounds great! Thanks for the hard work. I look forward to getting one!

 

[sgoss66]

tomtom --

THANKS for the kind words. I think this should work out real well, for those interested.

Steve

 

[sgoss66]

Also, I'm excited to announce that I have just finalized a "loose end" I've been working on, with my friend Jeff Herke.

Jeff has produced a small "test run" of Herke arm cuffs that I'll be offering as an optional accessory for my Equinox shafts!

​

These cuffs are essentially identical to the cuffs Jeff has offered for many other machines in the past, and for any of you who have owned a "Herke cuff" for one of your detectors, you know the quality he puts into them. A "padded neoprene cover" will also be available for the cuff, as an optional accessory.
​

Jeff plans to see what the demand is for the cuffs, once they are offered for sale, before deciding whether to continue to produce them, or not -- so at first they will be a "limited-time only" option. If they appear to be selling well, he'll decide at that point whether to continue to produce them.

I'll have pictures and prices for the cuffs up on my website, at the same time the shafts are ready for sale (roughly mid-January is the target).

Thanks!

Steve​

 

[vferrari]

What’s the delta in weight of Equinox between the stock shaft system and your CF shaft system?

 

[sgoss66]

vferrari --

Mine will be roughly 2.75 pounds, versus the Minelab stock setup at roughly 3 pounds.

Thanks!

Steve

 

[sgoss66]

Thanks, all, for your suggestions throughout the thread.

I just thought I'd provide an update, on the final counterweight design. Parts arrived today, for the tubes. I'm VERY pleased with how they have turned out! Here is a 6 15/16" counterweight tube for the Minelab Equinox carbon-fiber shaft, which is capable of holding up to 30 oz. weight. Remember, any weight/length of tube can be produced, up to the full 6 15/16", per customer needs/desires.

Thanks!

Steve

 

[RustyGold]

I like the look of it. Awesome job Steve!

 

[sgoss66]

Thanks, Rusty!

Steve

 

[BamaBill]

Hi Steve,

When are you going to have a few of these available? Would like to purchase one.

-Bill

 

[smokeythecat]

Have you looked at a stock "S" shaft for a Tesoro for an upper shaft? I have an extra and it appeared it would fit with almost no effort. Just thinking out loud.

 

[sgoss66]

BamaBill --

Thanks for your interest! I will have the first batch of shafts completed, and ready for sale, in roughly a week. If you would like to, please send me a PM with your email address, and I'll send you a copy of the detailed letter I composed for prospective customers, laying out all the shaft options/configurations, optional accessories, customization options, etc. THANKS!

smokeythecat --

Not sure if your message is addressed to me, or someone else, and not sure what you are suggesting with respect to the Tesoro S-shaft. Thanks!

Steve