Equinox identifying trash issue

[pulltabfelix]

Probably one of the best illustrations of the effectiveness of the Nox iron abilities. I wonder if Calabash has a video on Iron bias to show the effectiveness of iron bias and the new FE2 option.

 

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[pulltabfelix]

I think most of the Equinox users agree pull tabs, pop tops, bottle caps, can slaw, and especially round aluminum wine bottle caps are a bane to us.

So if you have leaned some good techniques that help ID these pesky items on your 600 or 800 please share them here.

I did't like the narrow 40 segment ID range but just have to deal with it since my 800 has so many other good qualities.

lets us know it your technique works on the 600 or 800 or both.

I have learned on this forum and one other metal detecting forum that almost any post I make about learning something about the Equinox will stir up some controversy. I am not sure why that is. For the record I have been detecting off and on since 1987 time frame. Before I purchased the 800 in March 2018 I used the AT Pro for 3 years. Was happy with the AT Pro. But yes, I got caught up with the hype on the 800 and just had to have it so I sold the AT Pro and purchased the 800.

It was like I landed on an alien planet. At first I thought the 800 was broken it was so chatty in the trashy parks I usually hunted. It also taught me that I did not know as much as I thought I knew about metal detecting. The AT Pro is a very good machine and very easy to learn to use especially when compared to the 800. It literally took me most of a year to learn the things I needed to learn about metal detecting and the 800.

I even bought the Simplex+ to try out a simpler machine that was reported to be very capable. I was planning on selling my 800. Then I thought I would keep both machines, but decided against that because of different tones and ID's. Hard to keep the differences straight in my brain. So I am selling the Simplex+ but not for any reason the Simplex+ was not a good detector. Decided that the continued learning of the 800 is all I can handle at this point and have invested tons of time in learning it.

There are many on this forum who have gone the extra length to respond thoughtfully to some of my private message questions. Why private messages? To avoid some people jumping on my case saying I am hyping the 800 too much. That is far from it. I have had issues with the 800 that I have not posted publicly because of the anti-nox people may take it and run with it. When discussions drop down to name calling instead of sticking to the facts and issues, I tend to tune those people out. But this is a public forum and I like others am free to post in any manner until a mod steps in and slaps our hands. I know some good people who have been banned from this and other forums when the discussions got too heated and too personal.

I remember back in the 1980's when the only source of info on metal detecting was the manufacturers and dealers (almost always hyped) and gold or metal detecting magazines. The problem with the magazines, only the good writers got published and often those writers where shills for the detector manufacturers. So in a nutshell without the metal detecting and forums and Youtube videos, most of us would be in the dark in terms of learning a new detector or even the theory and experience that out new digital media affords. So with this in mind, the characteristics of a free and open forum are well worth a little grief we may feel from time to time.

 

[Donut]

Probably one of the best illustrations of the effectiveness of the Nox iron abilities. I wonder if Calabash has a video on Iron bias to show the effectiveness of iron bias and the new FE2 option.

Calabash .
Look up YouTube Calabash on F2. Its there.
he has a couple on the F2 and many others videos .

Doug

 

[PowerDubs]

I can't wait until 2020 when trash won't be a problem anymore.

 

[tabman]

I don't know why people make such a big deal about digging trash. I'm of the mindset that every time I remove a trash target it might unmask a good target. Imagine an aluminum screw cap at 4 inches deep setting directly over a silver coin at 7-inches. Can your detector detect that old silver coin without removing the modern aluminum screw cap? My Nox is good for me and so are all the rest of my detectors. Heck, when I find a pull tab ring, I grin and say to myself........... that could have been a gold ring. I like switching up detectors to keep things interesting. One day I found silver coins with 3 different detectors during one hunt. What draws me to a detector is how fun it is to use. All the detectors in my present detector arsenal are fun to use.

Me looking for a gold ring dirt fishing. What are the odds?



tabman

 

[Jason in Enid]

I remember back in the 1980's when the only source of info on metal detecting was the manufacturers and dealers (almost always hyped) and gold or metal detecting magazines. The problem with the magazines, only the good writers got published and often those writers where shills for the detector manufacturers. So in a nutshell without the metal detecting and forums and Youtube videos, most of us would be in the dark in terms of learning a new detector or even the theory and experience that out new digital media affords. So with this in mind, the characteristics of a free and open forum are well worth a little grief we may feel from time to time.

Yeah, those were tough times before the internet. But at the same time, it was better because you could simply enjoy your metal detector without a bunch of haters telling you how dumb you were for liking it. Those magazine "reviews", they really were just big advertisements of the newest toys but it was the only thing we had available.

 

[pulltabfelix]

Tabman - I don't know why people make such a big deal about digging trash.

I will only speak for myself. First of all having started using a metal detector since 1987 with the Fisher Gold bug, I always wanted the best detector I could afford. Marketing literature promises a lot and I think I kept falling for that promise up to and including my purchase of my Nox 800. Looking for the affordable dream detector that will accurately ID any target. Have since learned that detector will probably never be available anytime soon.

The reason I don't favor digging all targets (even though I know it is a good policy if you want to find all good targets) is that I own my own business and have limited time to detect when you take in consideration of driving time. Limits me to about 2 - 4 hours per week. However with the equinox I am thinking I might have to start digging all targets since I hunt civil war relics in suburban parks where there is a lot of trash. It is just a fact of life that in metro Atlanta the city fathers decided to build parks on major civil war battle areas. But at least they did not declare them national parks except for Kennesaw Mtn national battle field.

 

[sgoss66]

Felix,

On one hand, I envy your situation. You can go to public parks, and dig Civil War relics. There is no chance of that, here in Oklahoma, and I envy that at any time, while digging in your city park, you have at least the CHANCE at a really special find!

ON THE OTHER HAND, you have what I would consider to be a nightmare scenario, there. In my experience, hunting Civil War-era relics is often on farmland, and so there is not usually an abnormally large amount of "modern" trash to deal with. As such, ANY mid tone in that type of site runs a good chance, probabilistically, of being a worthwhile target. At a park, those same targets are most often going to be a square or rectangular tab, etc.

The last time I was on a Civil War relic hunt, the targets I was focused on (bullets and buttons) were all in the 14 to 18 range on the Equinox. That is the EXACT SAME RANGE that 99% of my square and rectangular tabs fall into -- i.e. they are targets that, unless I am gold ring hunting -- I avoid LIKE THE PLAGUE in an average public park. I can't imagine a scenario where I am trying to dig three ringers or eagle buttons, in a loaded-with-modern-trash public park! I don't think I'd have the patience for that!

No WONDER the trash frustrates you!

Steve

 

[jmaziarz]

In Andy Sabisch's book The Equinox Series Handbook on page 68, he suggests checking the "12-to-14" signals by quickly switching to 10kHz.

 

[sgoss66]

jmazairz,

I have used this tactic, also. It does a reasonably good job identifying "can slaw," as the returns generated when running 10 kHz (or other single frequencies) for an irregularly shaped aluminum object are different (numerically and audibly) from the Multi-IQ returns. However, for something that is of a "consistent" shape, this method is largely ineffective, in my experience. For instance, take a ring pull, from an old-time pull tab (the kind in Felix's avatar, minus the beaver tail). That ring tab will report very, very similar, when running the unit in Multi-IQ, as it reports when running any one of the single frequencies. And this of course is the same type of behavior (very similar tone and ID with EITHER Multi-IQ, OR with a single frequency) that a three-ringer exhibits (or a gold ring exhibits) -- very similar readings in any of the single frequencies, as well as in Multi-IQ.

Thus, there's a good bit of "modern trash" out there, that behaves similarly to a "good" mid conductor, even when using this "frequency-shifting" strategy...

(And of course, this is NOT an Equinox-specific issue, as others have noted in this thread; I think we all know that ALL machines report both of these types of targets, i.e. a "ring pull" and a smaller-caliber Civil War-era lead bullet, for instance, with -- for all intents and purposes -- the same tone and VDI).

Steve​

 

[tabman]

40% User
30% Site
30% Machine
Or there abouts

I think an experienced user should get more credit. After all, an experienced user knows how to find good sites and how to get the most out of ANY detector. I'd go with 60/20/20. Give a complete greenie a Mindlab CTX 3030, Deus or Equinox and see what they can find. I know this may be hard for some of you to believe, but it took me over a year and a lot of detecting before I found my first silver coin, a 1919 Mercury dime. Now, I can go out with just about any detector and find silver coins daily if I set my mind to it.

To keep things interesting for me nowadays, I like to detect so-called hunted out sites with different detectors and using different techniques. I don't find as much hunting behind myself and others but it's super fun and challenging. I've learned a lot from personal experience, from others and from reading what people write on these detector forums. BTW, 'beep and dig' has found me my best finds.

tabman

 

[smokeythecat]

Technology is advancing. No doubt about that. For instance, my parents would not have dreamed of seat belts, airbags, ABS braking systems on their cars, warning lights to let you know more than what you want to and now, back up cameras! Same with detectors. I have unloaded all of my closet queens within the last 12 months.

The reason is twofold, first I only need one backup machine, and I can't part with my Tesoro Cibola since it has sentimental value.

As for machines, the Equinox may do another software upgrade to help address trash issues. Fisher is coming up with a discriminating PI machine. First test machine just got sold from what I've read.

Other manufacturers are not sitting on their hands.

The Cygnus 1X will surely make some folks fall on their rears when they see it.

Santa did not bring me a detector this year, but I'm getting a new one soon, and am just going to be patient for now. And make some tasty treats today.

Merry Christmas!

 

[pulltabfelix]

Yes, trash does frustrate me since one of the largest CW battles was fought in an area that is several parks that can be hunted because they are not federal. But I cannot change the facts and just have to deal with it.

I have talked to hunters who have hunted those parks in the 1970's and did quite well on CW relics probably due to the facts that in 1970's there was 50 years of less pop tops and pull tabs.

Too bad we could not have made can manufacturers make their pull tabs and pop tops with some kind of metal slug that was easy to ID that was not in the ring range. Just ideal dreaming here on that last statement.

 

[cudamark]

The technology to isolate metals may be coming sooner than you think.....stand by.

 

[jmaziarz]

In Andy Sabisch's book The Equinox Series Handbook on page 68, he suggests checking the "12-to-14" signals by quickly switching to 10kHz.

On page 71 there are two additional techniques that I have tried and found useful:

1. Try going into All-Metal (and do what others have mentioned) by "wigging the coil side-to-side slightly and pull back towards you. If the target is a non-ferrous target, the signal and target ID will remain consistent until it drops off as the coil clears the target. If it is ferrous, i.e., a rusted bottle cap, the target ID value will start to bounce and you will see a negative value appear as the coil starts to move off the target."

2. "Bob the coil up and down over the taret by raising and lowering it a few inches. Watch the target ID. A good target will remain fairly consistent while ID numbers for a rusted bottle cap will jump all over...often going from a nagative number all the ay up into the mid-20's."

I found this YouTube video that demonstrates both of these methods and one additional one at .

 

[smokeythecat]

Pulltabfelix, when you get old(er), an extra unnecessary dig with the shovel can become problematic - it hurts! Arthritis stinks and every time you dig a hole, it's wearing out the joints even more. When I get my new machine, (soon) I don't expect to dig much trash at all. It will lengthen the time in the future I will be able to metal detect.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Pulltabfelix, when you get old(er), an extra unnecessary dig with the shovel can become problematic - it hurts! Arthritis stinks and every time you dig a hole, it's wearing out the joints even more. When I get my new machine, (soon) I don't expect to dig much trash at all. It will lengthen the time in the future I will be able to metal detect.

For the love of god, please stop turning every thread into a cygnus commercial. We get it, its promising a lot. When you get it and use it, THEN tell us about it in your own threads.

 

[smokeythecat]

I hardly ever dig trash now with the Deus...I couldn't stand to fill up a bucket with garbage every time I go out. Happiness is an 18th century homesite a few hundred feet off the road that hasn't been around for over 200 years.

 

[RebelYell67]

I am new to this but I look at it this way. I think we all started this as a “fun” hobby. If digging trash bothers you, stop digging it and find a target with different numbers and dig those. If trash doesn’t bother you, dig it all. I see a bunch of complaints about relic hunters not liking the iron. Heck, I love finding bullets but strange pieces of old, rusted iron interest me as well.
I don’t like pull tabs, but if I’m looking for bullets, I’ll deal with them.
Just my 2 cents worth

 

[treasureguy56]

It all sounds like a lot of Drama to me , digging treasure is synonymous with digging trash ! It goes with the territory. Yes , you can be more selective with your targets because of the information your machine provides , but when it comes right down to it , the more you avoid digging , the more you take the chance of leaving something behind . It just seems that simple to me ! There is always going to be a good target lying at just the right angle , next to something just close enough to give an iffy signal and we will have to take the chance of digging or not digging .