ground balance 0

[Wild Colonial Boy]

Just noticed CT Todd and Hugh Campbell in Andys equinox book both do 0 ground balance

I always find clean ground, test it with treshold if no null, I pump in this area i am usually at 22-27, and the detector runs well

what advantage is 0 ground balance ?

 

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[troutbum]

I use 0 also, but I also like to put the GB in auto mode.Works fine so far.

 

[Bayoutalker]

I use 0 also, but I also like to put the GB in auto mode.Works fine so far.

The only problem I've seen with auto is if you go over a target a few times it can balance it out and it won't read it anymore.

 

[67GTA]

The multi IQ negates most of the ground effects. Ground balancing won't hurt anything but generally isn't necesarry unless you have mineralized soil.

 

[McKinney_5900]

I use 0 GB in multi, which I use 99% of the time since Day1 of getting the Equinox. Minelab engineers says that a GB isn't needed, I follow that advice. I never run in auto on purpose, precisely for that point about balancing out a good target. I learned that lesson with my V3i nearly 10 years ago. The thing is...if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Don't get me wrong. I tested all modes here in my established test garden right away, and leaving the GB at 0 in multi was never improved upon with a GB. Why muddy the water? ML said zero GB in multi, in the manual.

 

[troutbum]

The only problem I've seen with auto is if you go over a target a few times it can balance it out and it won't read it anymore.

Your right. The more you go over target in Auto. , sometimes you can lose it. I found that out yesterday on a park hunt. I will just leave it at 0.

 

[ColonelDan]

GB=0 for me at central Florida beaches. No issues.

 

[vferrari]

Just noticed CT Todd and Hugh Campbell in Andys equinox book both do 0 ground balance

I always find clean ground, test it with treshold if no null, I pump in this area i am usually at 22-27, and the detector runs well

what advantage is 0 ground balance ?

Yeah, at least in my case (can’t speak for Todd), that’s a typo. I don’t use “0” ground balance except at the beach. I typically do an Auto GB at least and then use tracking GB in the field when relic hunting in moderate to hot soil with great success and therefore disagree with the general concept that tracking GB zero’s out targets as stated above. Frankly, it responds too slowly and gradually to do that in the first place (that’s why I do an Auto GB first). Second, all GB accomplishes on the Equinox is elimination of ground noise. If your target is ringing up as a -8 or -9 it might disappear while swinging and using tracking (but why are you stopping for a -8/-9 hit in the first place?), but I have never had anything that was clearly non-ferrous cancel out while using tracking GB.

The only problem I've seen with auto is if you go over a target a few times it can balance it out and it won't read it anymore.

See above. If you are referring to tracking (vice Auto GB), I have seen that with other detectors (e.g., Deus before the latest updates) but never with Equinox.

I use 0 GB in multi, which I use 99% of the time since Day1 of getting the Equinox. Minelab engineers says that a GB isn't needed, I follow that advice. I never run in auto on purpose, precisely for that point about balancing out a good target. I learned that lesson with my V3i nearly 10 years ago. The thing is...if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Don't get me wrong. I tested all modes here in my established test garden right away, and leaving the GB at 0 in multi was never improved upon with a GB. Why muddy the water? ML said zero GB in multi, in the manual.

This is what the manual says: The default Ground Balance setting of 0 is
recommended for Park, Field and Beach Modes
because these locations typically have less
mineralisation than goldfields.
However, if the ground is generating many noise signals (and/
or the Sensitivity level is set very low), then using Auto Ground
Balance is recommended.

So if you are experiencing a lot of ground noise (which you can only hear if iron sector disc is off (e.g., in no disc “horseshoe” mode), then you should ground balance if you want to run with no disc (how I normally hunt). Otherwise, yeah, you won’t be aware of any difference. But frankly, an auto GB takes about 5 seconds, optimizes your machine for the ground conditions at hand, and if accomplished properly, should have no adverse impact on performance.

Regarding tracking, definitely not required under most circumstances, but useful in high mineralization when ground phase is highly variable. I have never had a target “disappear” while using it with Equinox.

Your right. The more you go over target in Auto. , sometimes you can lose it. I found that out yesterday on a park hunt. I will just leave it at 0.

I think you mean tracking not auto. Again, never had Equinox do this after using it for 3 years. But if you are just park hunting, there is no need for tracking. Auto GB is fixed after Auto GB is run, so it should not have caused ANY target to disappear. There are other things that can make a target disappear while swinging over it, though. Especially, if you disturb the ground or the target hit is actually caused by ferrous falsing.

Just relating my experiences here, not telling anyone how they should set up their machine or necessarily refuting what they’ve seen. Reading the ML documentation in detail and after hundreds of swing hours on Equinox, these statements are based on my personal experience and understanding of how the Equinox was intended to be set up.

HC

 

[Bayoutalker]

The only problem I've seen with auto is if you go over a target a few times it can balance it out and it won't read it anymore.

I did use the wrong terminology. I meant tracking GB not auto.

 

[Iron Buzz]

The multi IQ negates most of the ground effects. Ground balancing won't hurt anything but generally isn't necesarry unless you have mineralized soil.

I've been at this for four years now, and to be honest, I still have no idea how to tell how mineralized the soil is. Please explain.

 

[Iron Buzz]

Your right. The more you go over target in Auto. , sometimes you can lose it. I found that out yesterday on a park hunt. I will just leave it at 0.

I generally use tracking, and have never noticed that with the Nox. I did notice that on an early release of the XP Deus firmware but even that was fixed in a patch.

 

[vferrari]

I've been at this for four years now, and to be honest, I still have no idea how to tell how mineralized the soil is. Please explain.

Mineralized soil contains high amounts of magnetite and/or other iron oxides. Basically the black stuff you see that attaches itself to a magnet when you drag it through dirt.

High levels of mineralization affect ground phase readings and also attenuate (weaken) the magnetic field that is put into the ground by the coil and because of that, limits detection depth.
High ground phase readings can be indicative of mineralization but other things in the soil can affect the ground phase besides mineralization so ground phase cannot really tell you that the soil is mineralized.

The only way to tell the level of soil mineralization is to use a mineralization meter. Many First Texas detectors, the XP Deus, and even the Nokta Simplex+ have mineralization level meters. High or variable levels of mineralization can cause large swings in ground phase which can be mitigated by using a detector with tracking ground balance to detect changes in mineralization and rebalance automatically on the fly.

The Equinox senses mineralization changes and rebalances in tracking mode, but does not explicitly display mineralization level. The Equinox measured ground phase number can vary depenending on selected mode for a given spot and that is why you need to ground balance separately for each mode and is also the reason the Equinox displayed ground phase number tells you absolutely nothing about the level of mineralization at your site. In other words, a high ground phase reading on the Nox does not necessarily mean the ground is highly mineralized.

To mitigate the effects of mineralization on detection depth loss and excessive ground noise with vlf machines - use tracking GB or rebalance frequently, try to use smaller coils that don't see as much ground, minimize the output power of the transmit coil, if possible, and use lower frequencies that are attenuated less by the ground. If possible, use a PI detector which is generally unaffected by mineralization due to the different principle it uses to detect metallic targets.

HTH

 

[Jason in Enid]

The reason most people can hunt without any worry with a GB = 0, is 2 fold. The first is that the Minelab multi-freqs are constantly sensing the ground return and subtracting that from the target signal return. The second is because FBS, FBS2 and M-IQ all use a time-domain signal sampling (the same as PI detectors) while every other VLF detector uses a frequency domain. This feature automatically eliminates a lot of ground signal return.

 

[Donut]

The only problem I've seen with auto is if you go over a target a few times it can balance it out and it won't read it anymore.

Careful on that statement. I got a lot of flack for saying the same thing. But no matter I have had targets disappear. So just beware.
Doug

 

[Bayoutalker]

Careful on that statement. I got a lot of flack for saying the same thing. But no matter I have had targets disappear. So just beware.
Doug

Bring on the flack. They can believe what they want. I know what I've seen.

 

[McKinney_5900]

The reason most people can hunt without any worry with a GB = 0, is 2 fold. The first is that the Minelab multi-freqs are constantly sensing the ground return and subtracting that from the target signal return. The second is because FBS, FBS2 and M-IQ all use a time-domain signal sampling (the same as PI detectors) while every other VLF detector uses a frequency domain. This feature automatically eliminates a lot of ground signal return.

This is very astute Jason, thank you. I am from a career in RF

 

[Wild Colonial Boy]

Thank you all for your input, I am going to stick with pumping for the few seconds it takes to GB, Why not its there fora reason and I never hear ground noise as I reach in all metal mode
Hugh Thanks for the clarification on the typo, and the time you took to answer with integrity each response, I am a great believer in your advice , it has never set me off track

 

[vferrari]

The reason most people can hunt without any worry with a GB = 0, is 2 fold. The first is that the Minelab multi-freqs are constantly sensing the ground return and subtracting that from the target signal return. The second is because FBS, FBS2 and M-IQ all use a time-domain signal sampling (the same as PI detectors) while every other VLF detector uses a frequency domain. This feature automatically eliminates a lot of ground signal return.

Agree, Jason. Multi IQ Multifrequency (MF) is implemented by Minelab as you describe. But a key phrase above is "automatically eliminates a lot of" which means in practice the multifrequency ground return elimination/compensation only works well up to a point beyond which mineralization or other ground conductivity effects overwhelm its ability to automatically compensate. Since ground effects cannot be eliminated for all ground conditions and manifests itself as ground noise in off nominal ground phase conditions while operating in no disc (horseshoe) mode, ML provided GB adjust and tracking on Equinox.

(Side note, no disc or horseshoe mode is also often referred to, inaccurately, as "all metal"- Equinox does not have a true all metal mode where the detector provides a raw, unfiltered, unprocessed target signal).

So the reason most people don't have an issue with GB at 0 is not only about how MF ground compensation is implemented on Equinox but also about how and where people are most likely to use their machines. Specifically, 1) most don't hunt in no disc where ground noise is heard and 2) don't hunt in moderate to hot ground where MF's inherent ground signal elimination falters. And since discrimination is implemented in Multi IQ in a manner that does not impact detection depth for non-discriminated targets, Equinox users are also less inclined to run with no disc.

So since overall depth performance is not hindered as it can be on single frequency machines that are not ground balanced, little downside to NOT doing a GB if you don't go no disc. Vanquish has fixed ground balance (basically the same as running with 0 GB on Equinox) and that is fine for mild conditions and if you do not use no disc, you will never notice it. But get the Vanquish in mineralized soil and operate with no disc and you will get constant -9/-8 grunts and it will sound off as you raise or lower the coil in all modes. So having the ability to adjust like you can with Equinox makes the detector more versatile under a greater variety of conditions.

This is all a long winded way of saying that there is no real downside to routinely doing an auto or manual GB. On the flip side, unless you are running in no disc and in moderate to hot ground, there is little incentive to do a GB.

P.S., if you operate your Equinox in single frequency, then you should ground balance because Multi-IQ ground compensation is removed at that point. I still think in single frequency, the impact of not doing a ground balance is just ground noise. It should not affect the quality of a non-ferrous target signal.

 

[sgoss66]

This post from vferrari, and the one from Jason in Enid, are excellent posts, and I agree entirely with their points here, for what it's worth. Excellent posts, guys...

Steve

Agree, Jason. Multi IQ Multifrequency (MF) is implemented by Minelab as you describe. But a key phrase above is "automatically eliminates a lot of" which means in practice the multifrequency ground return elimination/compensation only works well up to a point beyond which mineralization or other ground conductivity effects overwhelm its ability to automatically compensate. Since ground effects cannot be eliminated for all ground conditions and manifests itself as ground noise in off nominal ground phase conditions while operating in no disc (horseshoe) mode, ML provided GB adjust and tracking on Equinox.

(Side note, no disc or horseshoe mode is also often referred to, inaccurately, as "all metal"- Equinox does not have a true all metal mode where the detector provides a raw, unfiltered, unprocessed target signal).

So the reason most people don't have an issue with GB at 0 is not only about how MF ground compensation is implemented on Equinox but also about how and where people are most likely to use their machines. Specifically, 1) most don't hunt in no disc where ground noise is heard and 2) don't hunt in moderate to hot ground where MF's inherent ground signal elimination falters. And since discrimination is implemented in Multi IQ in a manner that does not impact detection depth for non-discriminated targets, Equinox users are also less inclined to run with no disc.

So since overall depth performance is not hindered as it can be on single frequency machines that are not ground balanced, little downside to NOT doing a GB if you don't go no disc. Vanquish has fixed ground balance (basically the same as running with 0 GB on Equinox) and that is fine for mild conditions and if you do not use no disc, you will never notice it. But get the Vanquish in mineralized soil and operate with no disc and you will get constant -9/-8 grunts and it will sound off as you raise or lower the coil in all modes. So having the ability to adjust like you can with Equinox makes the detector more versatile under a greater variety of conditions.

This is all a long winded way of saying that there is no real downside to routinely doing an auto or manual GB. On the flip side, unless you are running in no disc and in moderate to hot ground, there is little incentive to do a GB.

 

[vferrari]

Careful on that statement. I got a lot of flack for saying the same thing. But no matter I have had targets disappear. So just beware.
Doug

Bring on the flack. They can believe what they want. I know what I've seen.

The following is not flack, just an attempt to explain what is going on with Equinox and how it is a lot different than single frequency detectors running tracking ground balance which CAN cause targets to disappear prior to recovery. So it is not a myth for certain single frequency detectors. In fact, it is such a common downside to tracking that I believe Andy Sabisch even put a generic caution regarding using tracking in his Equinox handbook (though it really doesn't apply in the case of Equinox). The following is simply a counterpoint to the claims of disappearing target signals for the benefit of those considering whether there is actual downside (or actual upside, for that matter) to using tracking GB on Equinox.

As explained above regarding ground signal cancellation on multi-frequency detectors, ground balance as implemented on Equinox simply eliminates ground noise which can only be seen/heard as -7/-8/-9 TID grunts with disc off (horseshoe mode). This is different than single frequency detectors which have to do more intrusive ground compensation that can affect depth and legitimate target signals, especially if automatic ground tracking is used.

I don't doubt that people have experienced occasions where targets have disappeared while swinging over them while using tracking GB with Equinox, but unless that target was registering in the ground noise region (-9 to -7 target ID) it is highly unlikely (though not completely impossible, I suppose) that Equinox GB tracking made the target disappear. There are other legitimate reasons why targets disappear prior to recovery, as I discussed above. Again, just saying it is unlikely due to tracking. But if you are not running in highly variable and/or mineralized ground conditions and not frequently using no disc/horseshoe mode then there is also no reason to use tracking anyway.

GB tracking is just a relatively benign setting option for convenience, not a secret game changing performance feature and not something that is going to ruin your detecting outing, either. Regardless of the reason you choose to or not to use it, if you feel your detecting performance is improved with or without using it, that is what is important. Not some detector nerd telling you what to do or giving you flack.

Just trying to help by sharing what I've learned to put as accurate detector tech info out there as I can and correcting potential misconceptions, folks. No agendas. It really has taken me multiple years to understand ML's ground balance implementation and other Equinox features and I'm still learning. Up to you to choose how you want to use or believe the info I've shared. Happy hunting, everyone.