The Health Care Swindle, Socialism and MORE

[BuckleBoy]

Hello All,


Post #5000 for me.


There has been some talk on this forum--as well as nationwide--about us moving towards a Socialist state with the Big Business Buyouts and "rescue packages."  Well, that might be an adequate evalutation--IF we all received the benefits of Socialism as well as the curses of it.  If we paid our taxes and recieved Health Care, a Road System maintained by taxpayer dollars rather than taxes at the pump, and Free Education. 

I want to get something off my chest about what I call the Health Care Swindle. 

When I go to the doctor--if I have insurance--I don't pay.  The doctor doesn't pay.  Where is the incentive to make this affordable in real monetary terms?  It's similar to playing cards at a casino with poker chips--the chips get traded back and forth, and eventually somone's pockets are empty and some other folks have all the money. 

I think (especially after the foibles in Big Business this week) that it is time for some government intervention here--or else this whole thing may collapse just like the house of cards that was the housing market.


Everyone gripes about Government meddling in the affairs of business--and scream "SOCIALIST!" if they intrude.  Then due to a lack of regulation, after Big Business fails, it's time for the Government to buy them up, help them out, and leave us with the bill.  And then folks yell "Socialist!" again.   

In terms of health care, I strongly believe that everyone has a Right to affordable insurance coverage.  Which means that insurance companies should be required to accept everyone--regardless of "pre-existing conditions." 

I don't want this to be a politics-filled post, but let me talk about McCain's plan for health care.  He wants to set up a Federally-Funded "High-Risk Pool" of funds so that everyone with a pre-existing condition can be covered.  Then the insurance companies will take everyone, and pass them off to the Goverment to foot the bill.  So again we'll be in the situation where the Government will throw our taxpayers' money at a problem rather than regulate the problem.  And if these health care companies FAIL, then we'll probably have another buy-out on our hands too.

I don't know about you, but I'm sick and tired of our Administration handling Big Business with kid gloves when it comes to regulation, then throwing billions of dollars at them when they're mis-managed. 



-Buck

 

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[mastereagle22]

The interventions and "management" that the governement already has in place in the medical system has crippled the industry.

You pay your insurance premiums so when you go to the doctor you do actually pay something for the visit.

Allowing the governement to take over the healtcare system is NOT the answer BB. I think a lot of reform needs to take place but the government has proven again and again that it cannot manage a health care system. The VA is a perfect example of this.

Free market intervention is what is needed. That can be controlled and regulated but the Government providing healthcare to everyone is NOT the answer in the current system we have.

The NUMBER ONE thing wrong with our healthcare system is lack of education. We live in a society where any disease can be cured according to what people see on TV. We waste Billions of tax dollars every year keeping people alive, doing agressive but pointless procedures and therapies on patients that are NEVER going to survive. We waste too much in the system we currently have. A lot of it is because of governement regulations but a lot of it is also due to legal concerns.

I agree out system needs an overhaul but turning it all over to the governement is simply not the way to go.

 

[BuckleBoy]

We waste Billions of tax dollars every year keeping people alive, doing agressive but pointless procedures and therapies on patients that are NEVER going to survive. We waste too much in the system we currently have.

Are you actually saying that we should let people die rather than keep them alive, or try procedures that might help them, prolong their lives, or make the quality of their life a little better for their final days?

I'd like to think--if I were ever in that situation someday--that I wouldn't be thought of as a "waste."


I never said in my post above that I thought that the Government should take over the health care system. What I'd like to see is them get Agressive about policing it! We can spend that money in other ways than to throw monetary life preservers at failed institutions in this country.


-Buck

 

[mastereagle22]

BB let me explain a little better.

During my last days working in an ICU we had a 93 year old woman with a terminal respiratory illness. She wanted NOTHING done. She wanted to just let nature take its course. Her family over ruled her and threatened all of us taking care of her with a lawsuit. That woman was placed on a ventilator where she laid for 3 months slowly getting worse and suffering all the problems that come along with prolonged ventilator treatment. One day she got her hand lose (they were restrained to keep her from taking herself off the vent) and she pulled out her breathing tube and then cursed all of us. The doctor then listened to her wishes and did not replace the breathing tube. 15 mins later she was gone.

Too many people think that all diseases can be cured, they cannot. We have people that come in with Diabetes that refuse to follow the prescribed diet and treatment and then when they go into ketoacidosis demand that we save them so they can do it over and over and over to the tune of millions of dollars a year being wasted. We have people with COPD that smoke like chimneys but when they get into respirartory distress they want us to do everything to prolong their lives.

We cannot continue to do this and expect the healthcare system to provide care for others that need it and will benefit from it more.

I agree that something needs to be done. A shift in focus to preventative medicine rather than what we have is one major thing we could do. Additionally removing some of the ridiculous government requirements and limited lawsuits would greatly increase the resources available to care for patients.

Let's face it too many times we in the health care field are forced to do "whatever" it takes to keep someone alive for a few more hours, days or weeks. That is the type of thing we need to put a stop to.

The human body has a limited time to function and when that time is up it's up. No matter how much money we throw at the problem, if a person is going to die they will do it whether we spend one dollar or one hundred million on them.

 

[thompy]

then there is the pharmaceuticals, with all the advertising, and the doc's pushing there chemicals at outrageous prices, I'm a diabetic and if there are 1 out of 3, you would think just in the shear volume that test strips and common drugs could be more affordable, i don't believe they want a cure, sure i work out but the exact cause is not known on what to avoid, or what is happening to become insulin resistant, sugar sure, then you hear saturated fats. Ive been trying to figure it out get over the hump to a full recovery. so i don't have to pay the doc and pharmacy's, id like to keep that money in my pocket

 

[mastereagle22]

Another thing to look at BB is the NUMBER of drugs a LOT of people are on.

When I started in health care in 1987 it was UNCOMMON for someone to be on more than 8-9 meds.

Today the average number is 14 and I have had patients on as many as 42 meds in one day!!!

I do not want you to think that I am some cold hearted Dr. Kevorkian here because I am not.

I am simply saying that nationalizing/socializing/ or whatever you want to call it is NOT the way to fix the healthcare system in the good ol US.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HIO: Therein lies a problem, who decides who will be kept alive and why? The next obvious step - which is coming regardless - is euthanism. When one passes max production efficiency, like a rancher and his live stock, you will be phased out. Sigh, where does that leave ME?

I agree with your statement that a patient should be allowed to make this decision in many deseases and physical conditions.

I also agree wholeheartedly with your statements on people helping themselves, especially on continuing with dangerous habits. They tend to simply shrug their shoulders and say "if it happens, it happens", but, when it does, they are the first in screaming for help.

Don Jose de La Mancha