Medical proffesionals please step inside....

[mikeofaustin]

My girlfriends mom recently had a fall (from a standing position to the floor, yes she's old). Anyway, they rushed her to the emergency room where they say she had some bleeding in her brain. The docs put her under sedation (she was fine before going under) for a whole week to let her 'stabilize'. Now, since last Sunday (it's been 4 days now) they took the off the drugs to keep her sedated and she still hasn't woke up yet. The doc even 'yelled' at her to get her to wake up, but she simply won't wake up. They stimulate her, rub her face, body, move her hands, etc. but she just won't wake up. They've done a scan and there has been no more bleeding since she came in, and her brain is supposedly still healthy.

Age is probably early mid to late 60's. No other health problems.


Any ideas?

 

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[pygmy]

My immediate thought was that old fashioned remedy , smelling salts.
The other senses have been tried , I therefore recommend the sense of smell to be titillated.
If smelling salts aren't available then maybe her favorite alcoholic drink even dribbled into
her mouth.
A miniature bottle can be smuggled in.

 

[mikeofaustin]

My immediate thought was that old fashioned remedy , smelling salts.
The other senses have been tried , I therefore recommend the sense of smell to be titillated.
If smelling salts aren't available then maybe her favorite alcoholic drink even dribbled into
her mouth.
A miniature bottle can be smuggled in.

as usual, my ol' pig friend to the rescue.

However, the doctor has 'yelled -wake up'. to no avail.

My personal thought was to yell "YOU'RE LATE FOR WORK. WAKE UP". But that's been done too.

She simply won't wake up.

 

[mikeofaustin]

maybe she is still healing?...

My thought is that when she first came in, they sedated her, and after the sedation didn't put her fully under (she kept fighting the ventilator), the decided to up the dosage. My thoughts are that they kept her on such a high dosage for so long (for a 75 year old), that they saturated her body with it, and it's just going to take a lot longer for her to wake up. So, since a few days ago, she's started opening her eyes for short stints, but shes still 'not there'. I keep telling Ann (my GF), that each day is better than the last.

On Monday, they'll give her a traiciodemy, because they can't keep a person on ventilation for over two weeks.

It just bewilders me that she went in there just fine, and now she's not. I think if they never gave her the sedation, she'd already be at home. Perhaps the 'rule books' were at fault here. Perhaps I'm just seeking some answer for this anomaly.

 

[pygmy]

maybe she is still healing?...

My thought is that when she first came in, they sedated her, and after the sedation didn't put her fully under (she kept fighting the ventilator), the decided to up the dosage. My thoughts are that they kept her on such a high dosage for so long (for a 75 year old), that they saturated her body with it, and it's just going to take a lot longer for her to wake up. So, since a few days ago, she's started opening her eyes for short stints, but shes still 'not there'. I keep telling Ann (my GF), that each day is better than the last.

On Monday, they'll give her a traiciodemy, because they can't keep a person on ventilation for over two weeks.

It just bewilders me that she went in there just fine, and now she's not. I think if they never gave her the sedation, she'd already be at home. Perhaps the 'rule books' were at fault here. Perhaps I'm just seeking some answer for this anomaly.

Sounds like they vegetated her Mike. I think your litigation experience you spoke of before
re. TV set might be handy again.

 

[mikeofaustin]

maybe she is still healing?...

My thought is that when she first came in, they sedated her, and after the sedation didn't put her fully under (she kept fighting the ventilator), the decided to up the dosage. My thoughts are that they kept her on such a high dosage for so long (for a 75 year old), that they saturated her body with it, and it's just going to take a lot longer for her to wake up. So, since a few days ago, she's started opening her eyes for short stints, but shes still 'not there'. I keep telling Ann (my GF), that each day is better than the last.

On Monday, they'll give her a traiciodemy, because they can't keep a person on ventilation for over two weeks.

It just bewilders me that she went in there just fine, and now she's not. I think if they never gave her the sedation, she'd already be at home. Perhaps the 'rule books' were at fault here. Perhaps I'm just seeking some answer for this anomaly.

Sounds like they vegetated her Mike. I think your litigation experience you spoke of before
re. TV set might be handy again.

I thought I updated this post but apparently it didn't take.

Update: Just today, she's opening her eyes and focusing in on people in the room. She still has the breather down her throat, but she was aware. I told my GF that she was old and it's just going to take some time, and low and behold, it has. She's still not talking, but she at least recognized that she was in a hospital with a plastic ____ down her throat, and she actually started to cry at one point because she knew she was in a nylon bind.

I kept telling my GF that every day will be better that the last. And today it really shows.

//hidden rough neck lingo embedded in there btw.

 

[pygmy]

So long as there is no brain damage.

 

[mikeofaustin]

So long as there is no brain damage.

we will see sir, .... we will see my friend.

 

[mikeofaustin]

...One of the nurses today mentioned that the doctor thinks they gave her too much sedation. I told the GF that that nurse would be fired if they found out she told them that, because stuff like that is NOT repeated to the families.

This was my diagnosis from day two.

 

[ivan salis]

not a medical pro but just a smart person on medical issues (by most folks that know me accounting)

on serious head injury cases they can "induce a coma" to shut a body down so it can focus all its resources on healing its self -- waking up from a "induced coma" can be rough indeed *

but it can also be a easy out for they to say that --rather than say they screwed up and gave her too much gas too.-- did they say ing advange they were going to put her unto a coma state to heal? if so it was "planned" a risky but maybe needed step.-- if not it could be CYA by the hospital folks.

well my freind -- seems your learning about CYA in doctor land -- first they will "say" well it was a serious head brain injury and that these things can take time to heal --(which they can -- esp if the person who put her "under" used way too much ) -- putting folks too far "under" is the #1 cause of operation deaths ( medical "misadventure" -- operation screw ups --is the #8 cause of death in the usa -- doctors do not want you to know how really dangerous being put under is --I say any time yer put under make sure your will is up to date) -- often they put folks into coma they will not come out of --ie --the dumb idiot "put her to sleep" like a dog at a vets office by over dosing her -- he just did not finish her off thankfully --watch for side effects * which they will of course blame on her head injury -- they will say the inside bleeding caused "pressure" (and blame any ill effects on that) which it could have -- this pressure if unchecked can crush the brain causing serious brain damage or death. -- often a hole is drilled into the skull to vent the excess blood off to reduce the pressure .

hope all is well soon. Ivan.

 

[Digger]

Just a thought.

Often for brain injuries they will induce a comma to allow the body to put all resources toward healing. You keep saying "they sedated her" but there is a big difference between being sedated and a induced comma. In an induced comma it is a slow process to get back to normal. Much like you described.

 

[Monty]

Just to let you know mid to late sixties ain't old! 80 is getting a little old though. MOnty

 

[mikeofaustin]

Just to let you know mid to late sixties ain't old! 80 is getting a little old though. MOnty

Yep, I guessed at her age, but I'm pretty sure she hasn't hit 80 yet, but I do know shes in her late 70's.

As of today, she still can't talk, but they did take the respirator off her. She has 'spurts' of consciousness.

This women went in with a .4 alcohol blood level, something I just learned about. And she didn't 'hit her head'....from what I hear anyway. She just fell down and couldn't get up.

Oh boy... now were dealing with here other daughter (a major alcoholic) taking her moms car without permission. The family found the workbench in the garage hit by the car when it was pulled in by her. It's a sad scenario. The grand-daughters have this mom that can't keep a job because she drinks at morning light. But now that the grandma is away, she feels that she can do anything she wants.

My girlfriend wants to take the two daughters (grand kids). I told her that my house is big enough that I would be willing to house them too. Heck, I would love a little 'family' around here. But, its' all a big cluster _____.

I'll keep you updated.

 

[ivan salis]

theres really no "fun" in disfunctional --best of luck for the kids sake.

 

[mikeofaustin]

theres really no "fun" in disfunctional --best of luck for the kids sake.

Yeah... And unfortunately, pretty much every family these days has there own problems. It is sad that the grad kids (currently in high school) has this to deal with.

When I was growing up, I never had to deal with alcoholism. Instead, it was being poor. When I was 6 I remember looking forward to Sunday because I was able to eat for free at the local church.

These kids currently live with grandma because their mom is a beer junky (currently in the hospital).

In all I find it odd, because this family, the grandma at least, if very well off. Unfortunately they leach off of the grandma. You have a very wealthy grandma that's being taken advantage of, even before she's gone.

...makes me sick.

Pig. I need your thoughts here.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

I wasn't going to post here, but here's the deal:

She didn't "go under alright" - she had bleeding in her brain. An induced coma, is the "treatment of choice", especially when it is the result of another factor (her fall).

Seeing her age (if the 70's is correct), it is not unusual for it to take a considerable time longer than a younger person. You will have to remember that she has more than induced coma - she has had a fall - so that needs to heal - she must of hit her head - bleeding (of course, maybe she fell because she had bleeding into her brain - either way, two injuries to the body).

The older you get, the longer it takes to heal from anything and everything. Slow, faultering speech is a definite effect of bleeding in the brain.
After my stroke, even after I was home and the whole deal - I would talk to someone and then completely forget how to talk - I couldn't get it from inside to out the mouth - it happens. It also goes away. You keep her talking even if its difficult. Press her to speak, the more she tries, the better it will get. Yes, the can be side effects that don't go away - I tend to forget names (never faces), and I occasionally transpose numbers and letters. (if a number is 75, I will say, or write 57. Believe it or not, I just did that typing these numbers), but you learn your limitations and try to double check everything you can.

And make sure your docs keep checking to make sure she still actually needs that trach. You don't want her lungs getting lazy.


That's the other thing, when you have induced coma, there are many, many things in the body that have to "wake up" - including the kidneys, etc., and since they all got to take a rest, everything will crank up - just more slowly because she is older. Some doctors don't seem to have the "time" to keep up with the mundate day to day things, like they do the acute items - make sure someone does.

B

 

[Monty]

If her blood alcohol was .40 that is enough to cause alcoholic poisoning and induce a comma in itself. I have seen deaths occur at that alcohol blood level! Monty

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

I missed the .4 alcohol content (I read it as .04) - that is what you meant, yes? (.08 is drunk in most states, .10 in some)

.4 and they wouldn't have had to be put under an induced coma - in fact, IF she even survived .4, they would have had to wait until the blood level was lower before they could even induce coma. (meaning more damage was still being done without the body being capable of doing a very good job of healing).

Either way - Monty is right on - she could have done some major damage to her liver and kidneys (I'm surprised she survived .4) - but she could have some multiple issues to deal with. (like Monty said - .4 can kill you all by itself - and give you alcohol poisoning), and if it was .4, it will definitely take her longer.

Also, if she is alcoholic, she may have had some other issues going on while she was comatose (like DT's).

Gee, you do have a mess going on there.

B

 

[mikeofaustin]

It might of been .04. (The GF doesn't always get things right, plus, I didn't think about that number when I posted).
I should be getting an update in the next day or so. She's still not talking. But she's opening her eyes and off the respirator.

Everyone is still waiting, and the grandkids (who live at her house) are having a free-for-all. Sad.

 

[trikikiwi]

Mike, I pray it all works out and Mum recovers well.

Mike