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spartacus53
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Thankfully that child was only four and has no sense of logic. Maybe at 5, that letter wouldn't work because that kid would put 2 and 2 together..
It's the old thanks for sending us a picture so we would recognize him, then in the next sentence say no one has bodies, we are all spirits. I think I may have questioned that call
Now they send a child a book on how to deal with the loss of a pet... What, no grief counselor, or support group?
It's the old thanks for sending us a picture so we would recognize him, then in the next sentence say no one has bodies, we are all spirits. I think I may have questioned that call
Now they send a child a book on how to deal with the loss of a pet... What, no grief counselor, or support group?
spartacus53
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I would have chimed in earlier, but Dano was having way too much fun on his own 
Ray, there is no doubt who ever wrote the letter and sent the book did so with good intentions. The other side of the matter is that it does open a can of worms too.
Ray, there is no doubt who ever wrote the letter and sent the book did so with good intentions. The other side of the matter is that it does open a can of worms too.
21stTNCav
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spartacus53 said:I would have chimed in earlier, but Dano was having way too much fun on his own
Ray, there is no doubt who ever wrote the letter and sent the book did so with good intentions. The other side of the matter is that it does open a can of worms too.
My good friend Spart, I have to disagree a little because that story did not open a can of worms . Some folks go out of their way to dig the worms, find a packaging company, have the worms canned, and then in front of everyone open the can so all can see.
Ray, that letter was one of the kindest acts that someone could do.
The rest with the "Child brainwashing" and such is just sour grapes during a monsoon of kindness, but for entertainment value cannot be beat I must say!!
Ladies and Gentlemen, the can of worms does not get opened if one does not decide to sit down with a can opener and go work.
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21stTNCav said:spartacus53 said:I would have chimed in earlier, but Dano was having way too much fun on his own
Ray, there is no doubt who ever wrote the letter and sent the book did so with good intentions. The other side of the matter is that it does open a can of worms too.
My good friend Spart, I have to disagree a little because that story did not open a can of worms . Some folks go out of their way to dig the worms, find a packaging company, have the worms canned, and then in front of everyone open the can so all can see.
Ray, that letter was one of the kindest acts that someone could do.
The rest with the "Child brainwashing" and such is just sour grapes during a monsoon of kindness, but for entertainment value cannot be beat I must say!!
Ladies and Gentlemen, the can of worms does not get opened if one does not decide to sit down with a can opener and go work.
spartacus53
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21stTNCav & Treasure_Hunter, I don't remember anyone saying it wasn't a kind act By the same token, Dano also has a point about being brainwashed as a child. In this case it wasn't done with evil intentions, and that is a good thing. Without going into greater detail, child have been brainwashed in almost every culture over the centuries.
21stTNCav as far your analogy to opening a can of worms, that is almost the exact meaning. It's the surprise of opening something that you believe to be good, and have something unexpected come out.
The tradition of Santa Claus also raised a good point. Being told this wonderful story is a great thing, but let's also look at the downside. First and foremost, I was also told as a child not to make up stories and tell lies. Now here are your parents actually doing what they preached about When you find out there is great disappointment in both the story and your being tricked by your parents. Not a clear message to send to a child. Hey, I did this to my kids too, as most probably do. Secondly, the story of Santa bringing all the goodies to the "good little boys and girls", what about families that are impoverished, and can't afford to get their children something nice I guess no matter how good these kids are, they the message back they weren't good enough to receive gifts, but at least they didn't get coal.
Sometimes you just have to sit back and look at things from different perspectives. People have different ways of viewing situations, and some take the time to look in both directions before crossing the street.
By the same token, Dano also has a point about being brainwashed as a child. In this case it wasn't done with evil intentions, and that is a good thing. Without going into greater detail, child have been brainwashed in almost every culture over the centuries.21stTNCav as far your analogy to opening a can of worms, that is almost the exact meaning. It's the surprise of opening something that you believe to be good, and have something unexpected come out.
The tradition of Santa Claus also raised a good point. Being told this wonderful story is a great thing, but let's also look at the downside. First and foremost, I was also told as a child not to make up stories and tell lies. Now here are your parents actually doing what they preached about
When you find out there is great disappointment in both the story and your being tricked by your parents. Not a clear message to send to a child. Hey, I did this to my kids too, as most probably do. Secondly, the story of Santa bringing all the goodies to the "good little boys and girls", what about families that are impoverished, and can't afford to get their children something nice I guess no matter how good these kids are, they the message back they weren't good enough to receive gifts, but at least they didn't get coal.Sometimes you just have to sit back and look at things from different perspectives. People have different ways of viewing situations, and some take the time to look in both directions before crossing the street.
Dano Sverige
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Dayum 21st...you really are a mormon eh? They run off when the "book of comebacks" can't explain something too,lol. 
As for proving my true feelings beyond any doubt, i thought i did that when i said i was an atheist? Dunno.
Most kids find out from other kids that there's no such thing as God too. It makes them wonder, and then they end up like me if they're inquisitive enough, or just let it slip by the wayside due to it not being much fun for kids. The only reason kids still believe in a God is when they're forced (meaning through no choice of their own) to attend church every sunday (etc) by religious parents, or sent to attend strict religious schools, Or their lives are sheltered from the normal young kid activities that mean a lot more to a child than religion ever would.
Unlike santa, God is a "lifelong requirement", due to the fact that humans can't accept that we have one life, we die, and that's it! It terrifies us and always has since the dawn of time, and it's why there have been Gods in every culture. Gods are the worlds "security blanket", no more, no less! (In my opinion only).
Ray - Firstly let me apologise for the thread ending up like it has, though to be truthful all i said was it was a sweet gesture but i believe it's wrong (technically and ethically). All i've done since is respond to people getting on my case for my views, which i think i have a right to do?
I don't believe i need to "wake up" and realise there is a God Ray. If you don't understand how i can say there isn't a God because of the wonders of the world then i refer you to "Discovery channel" and the like(or books,google and lectures, if you prefer) where you can see everyday how thousands, if not millions of scientists, botanists, biologists, evolutionists and all their kind..dedicate their lives to studying and explaining and more to the point,proving things about our planet that have nothing to do with God whatsoever!
Are they all..as i seem to get classed as..."bad people" and "fools"?
I will agree with you on one thing though...there are no atheists. Anyone who claims to be one is really an agnostic because as you rightly stated.."there are no atheists in war"! Been there many times, so i know! lol.
That though boils down to what i said earlier about God and religion being instilled, drilled and ingrained into us all (christians) from a very early age.
In reality that's not being a believer, it's fear and terror. If your boat sinks and you're being circled by "jaws", and the great pumpkin God pops up and offers to save you if you convert...you dump christianity and become a pumpkin disciple on the spot! Only natural.
I don't, and never will, try and convince anyone there is no God. Likewise i don't expect people who do believe in God to try and convince me i'm wrong or that i'm an idiot everytime i state my view and opinion!
We all believe what we believe and mostly there's no harm done on either side. Hardcore Latino gang members cover themselves in cross and Jesus tattoos, why? To the rest of us God and Jesus would have turned their backs on them and consigned them to Hell the moment they first did anything bad aged 14! Are they seeking redemption while still selling drugs and doing robberies and drive-by shootings and killing each other?
Nup..it's because it was ingrained into them from birth and basically they're hoping the christian "repent before you die and be saved" get out clause really works! They must believe...and that's their choice...but they're wrong too!
Sorry for the ramble. Now you know why i kept out of the "Religion" forum, one part of the pub i truly don't miss!
People posting while i was writing my book! lol
21st - I didn't "open a can of worms" until my very short and pretty harmless opinion was jumped on. And..well you know me when that happens!
As for proving my true feelings beyond any doubt, i thought i did that when i said i was an atheist? Dunno.
Most kids find out from other kids that there's no such thing as God too. It makes them wonder, and then they end up like me if they're inquisitive enough, or just let it slip by the wayside due to it not being much fun for kids. The only reason kids still believe in a God is when they're forced (meaning through no choice of their own) to attend church every sunday (etc) by religious parents, or sent to attend strict religious schools, Or their lives are sheltered from the normal young kid activities that mean a lot more to a child than religion ever would.
Unlike santa, God is a "lifelong requirement", due to the fact that humans can't accept that we have one life, we die, and that's it! It terrifies us and always has since the dawn of time, and it's why there have been Gods in every culture. Gods are the worlds "security blanket", no more, no less! (In my opinion only).
Ray - Firstly let me apologise for the thread ending up like it has, though to be truthful all i said was it was a sweet gesture but i believe it's wrong (technically and ethically). All i've done since is respond to people getting on my case for my views, which i think i have a right to do?
I don't believe i need to "wake up" and realise there is a God Ray. If you don't understand how i can say there isn't a God because of the wonders of the world then i refer you to "Discovery channel" and the like(or books,google and lectures, if you prefer) where you can see everyday how thousands, if not millions of scientists, botanists, biologists, evolutionists and all their kind..dedicate their lives to studying and explaining and more to the point,proving things about our planet that have nothing to do with God whatsoever!
Are they all..as i seem to get classed as..."bad people" and "fools"?
I will agree with you on one thing though...there are no atheists. Anyone who claims to be one is really an agnostic because as you rightly stated.."there are no atheists in war"! Been there many times, so i know! lol.
That though boils down to what i said earlier about God and religion being instilled, drilled and ingrained into us all (christians) from a very early age.
In reality that's not being a believer, it's fear and terror. If your boat sinks and you're being circled by "jaws", and the great pumpkin God pops up and offers to save you if you convert...you dump christianity and become a pumpkin disciple on the spot! Only natural.
I don't, and never will, try and convince anyone there is no God. Likewise i don't expect people who do believe in God to try and convince me i'm wrong or that i'm an idiot everytime i state my view and opinion!
We all believe what we believe and mostly there's no harm done on either side. Hardcore Latino gang members cover themselves in cross and Jesus tattoos, why? To the rest of us God and Jesus would have turned their backs on them and consigned them to Hell the moment they first did anything bad aged 14! Are they seeking redemption while still selling drugs and doing robberies and drive-by shootings and killing each other?
Nup..it's because it was ingrained into them from birth and basically they're hoping the christian "repent before you die and be saved" get out clause really works! They must believe...and that's their choice...but they're wrong too!
Sorry for the ramble. Now you know why i kept out of the "Religion" forum, one part of the pub i truly don't miss!
People posting while i was writing my book! lol
21st - I didn't "open a can of worms" until my very short and pretty harmless opinion was jumped on. And..well you know me when that happens!
Rooter
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Dano, I think the problem arose when you said that what was done was wrong based on the religious pretense. I too am an atheist. I was brought up Catholic and attended 12 years of Catholic schooling. Somewhere during my life my perspective on religion changed. I however fully support each individuals right to worship and believe as they see fit. Since I don't believe in religion I don't differentiate between them. I believe a good deed is a good deed and vise verse. The letter was done with the best of intentions to help a small child through a difficult time. Who it came from is not important. The important thing is that it came and brought comfort. It showed that another human being took some time to offer sympathy and compassion to another human being. The details pale in significance.
With all due respect to those that believe, I also feel it is wrong to tell Dano or anyother person what they need to do when it comes to their religious beliefs.
With all due respect to those that believe, I also feel it is wrong to tell Dano or anyother person what they need to do when it comes to their religious beliefs.
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It is extremely hard to find an atheist in a foxhole under fire in combat, during a natural disaster when a Cat 5 hurricane, tornado, tsunami is bearing down on you or your trapped in a building that is on fire.....
Rooter
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Treasure, With all due respect, that cliche is a bold assumption. You should pray for tolerance and not take my beliefs or anyone Else's personally.
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remember what "santa" was based on--a true tale of a saint, commercialization changed SOME of the situation on that
I don't believe anyone is brainwashed into following a religious faith or brainwashed into believing in the easter bunny lol (vs. cults etc)
I never "cried or fainted or freaked" when I found out Santa wasn't "real"--heck most kids don't...so useless counter point in my mind. Anyone in "current therapy" because of Santa right now?
what I remember is a wonderful childhood filled with fantasy, fun and, best, fun and loving parents!
it is faith...simple as that and if you do not have it, or don't want it, to find 'all the reasons' for disclaiming it is useless to me. just a mouth trying to tell others --what gets them thru life with some comfort-- is a sad ploy to join a different/miserable/lacking side of life.
faith gives people joy and comfort and meaning. some cherish it, some don't require it. I wouldn't give up my faith for 'anyone's facts' any day of the week.
and on the death bed, if a person has time to reflect in those last hours, most people will be changing their mind and asking "something" for a next existence. BUT if you truly are happy and content and set in your beliefs, then death will be the persons final existence. Sad for it to be over-- so final. For me it will not be final.
If a person does not want the faith, don't try to crush the other persons faith. cause that just tells me that a person 'is truly scared' to be alone when not sure if that faith is real. crush what you don't or can't understand in your heart. It is OK not to believe, just don't trash my views.
I don't believe anyone is brainwashed into following a religious faith or brainwashed into believing in the easter bunny lol (vs. cults etc)
I never "cried or fainted or freaked" when I found out Santa wasn't "real"--heck most kids don't...so useless counter point in my mind. Anyone in "current therapy" because of Santa right now?
what I remember is a wonderful childhood filled with fantasy, fun and, best, fun and loving parents!
it is faith...simple as that and if you do not have it, or don't want it, to find 'all the reasons' for disclaiming it is useless to me. just a mouth trying to tell others --what gets them thru life with some comfort-- is a sad ploy to join a different/miserable/lacking side of life.
faith gives people joy and comfort and meaning. some cherish it, some don't require it. I wouldn't give up my faith for 'anyone's facts' any day of the week.
and on the death bed, if a person has time to reflect in those last hours, most people will be changing their mind and asking "something" for a next existence. BUT if you truly are happy and content and set in your beliefs, then death will be the persons final existence. Sad for it to be over-- so final. For me it will not be final.
If a person does not want the faith, don't try to crush the other persons faith. cause that just tells me that a person 'is truly scared' to be alone when not sure if that faith is real. crush what you don't or can't understand in your heart. It is OK not to believe, just don't trash my views.
Rooter
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Farmerchick, I hope you understand that all atheist's are not created equal. There are many forms of faith. It is a personal choice just like yours is. It doesn't mean we are scared, or lacking some basic human ingredient. It is just a choice like being Catholic, Baptist , or Buddist. I am fine with Santa Claus and the Easter bunny but I choose not to believe in any god. My life is not lacking, sad, or miserable. Quite the opposite. You hit it right on the head when you said some people don't require religious faith for comfort, and meaning. For those who do you have my full support and best wishes. As my earlier post states I think it was a wonderfull gesture done by a truly compassionate human being and I take exception to Dano's inference that the religious overtone made it wrong.
21stTNCav
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UGH, that this has gotten to this is really sad. God love us all and if you do not believe well he loves you too.
Atheist, agnostic, true believer, or as Dano said a Mormon it really does not matter. This was a good deed not to be infringed on. I do not like religious discussion and it is why I did not frequent that part of this site until of course it was removed. I leave this discussion to others.
Atheist, agnostic, true believer, or as Dano said a Mormon it really does not matter. This was a good deed not to be infringed on. I do not like religious discussion and it is why I did not frequent that part of this site until of course it was removed. I leave this discussion to others.
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Tncav,
Just like in politics, a no win situtation, those that believe will not stop believing, and the athiests that do not believe will not stop not believing.... There is a saying that you never discuss politics or religion with family or friends....
Just like in politics, a no win situtation, those that believe will not stop believing, and the athiests that do not believe will not stop not believing.... There is a saying that you never discuss politics or religion with family or friends....
Dano Sverige
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Jesus is supposed to be coming back today, so i guess we'll hear it from the horses mouth..so to speak. 
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Rooter said:
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Dano Sverige said:Jesus is supposed to be coming back today, so i guess we'll hear it from the horses mouth..so to speak.
anyone can claim that at any minute in their lives. might be true, might not LOL--who knows "what someone else might truly know?"
Dano, like said in this thread by others..what one chooses to believe is what one chooses to believe.
it is when you crush another's choice in life is when the controversy will kick in
if I say it is sunny today, and you say cloudy, well it just depends on where ya live right?
so be it with religion and politics...good and bad go with both.
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my 2 cents --if there is NO god as you claim --how do you "justify" how your own "existance"?
I mean where did you come from --mom and dad -- and where did they come from?--as one goes back farther and farther in time --first beings had to come from something did they not ? -- ah the "darwin theory" that human beings "evolved" from other "things" -- ok where did the things that "evovled" into human beings "come from" ? because sooner or later it boils down to "first life" where did that "come from" ?--ah chemical reactions --fine where did the chemicals come from ?-- sooner or later it comes down to something ( basic existance) had to be made from nothing * --mankind has NEVER been able to explain how you make "something from nothing" --this is the work of "the creator" -- that which makes something from nothing --the moment "the creator" made made existance "be"-- life as we know it became possible * --now if not for a "creator" of some sort --(often called "god" or many other various names thru out the history of mankind) -- please explain how existance came to be -
I mean where did you come from --mom and dad -- and where did they come from?--as one goes back farther and farther in time --first beings had to come from something did they not ? -- ah the "darwin theory" that human beings "evolved" from other "things" -- ok where did the things that "evovled" into human beings "come from" ? because sooner or later it boils down to "first life" where did that "come from" ?--ah chemical reactions --fine where did the chemicals come from ?-- sooner or later it comes down to something ( basic existance) had to be made from nothing * --mankind has NEVER been able to explain how you make "something from nothing" --this is the work of "the creator" -- that which makes something from nothing --the moment "the creator" made made existance "be"-- life as we know it became possible * --now if not for a "creator" of some sort --(often called "god" or many other various names thru out the history of mankind) -- please explain how existance came to be -
Dano Sverige
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So, where was God sat when he created the Universe from...nothingness? If there was already a God then your theory of nothingness doesn't hold water does it?
Your post is just a technical version of the "I can't prove there's no God and you that there is" statement...which we've already done.
Your post is just a technical version of the "I can't prove there's no God and you that there is" statement...which we've already done.
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