Unexplained Phenomena

[ClonedSIM]

As soon as you left, the young cows turned back into aliens.
That's how Stephen King would have seen it.

Naw, Stephen King would have turned the cows into vampires, then aliens would drop in and eat the vampires.

 

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[Kentucky Kache]

As soon as you left, the young cows turned back into aliens.
That's how Stephen King would have seen it.

Naw, Stephen King would have turned the cows into vampires, then aliens would drop in and eat the vampires.

I like the way you think. Let's write a novel.

 

[ClonedSIM]

LOL!

 

[gollum]

As soon as you left, the young cows turned back into aliens.
That's how Stephen King would have seen it.

Naw, Stephen King would have turned the cows into vampires, then aliens would drop in and eat the vampires.

That's OK, but what about if Gary Larson (Far Side) wrote the book?

The cows would just act like stupid cows until the humans left, then they would radio back to their "MOOOTHERSHIP" to come pick them up!

Mike

 

[ClonedSIM]

As soon as you left, the young cows turned back into aliens.
That's how Stephen King would have seen it.

Naw, Stephen King would have turned the cows into vampires, then aliens would drop in and eat the vampires.

That's OK, but what about if Gary Larson (Far Side) wrote the book?

The cows would just act like stupid cows until the humans left, then they would radio back to their "MOOOTHERSHIP" to come pick them up!

Mike

HA! I love the Far Side! What about Bill Watterson, of Calvin and Hobbes fame?
Then the Mooothership would be attracted to the "Aliens Land Here!" sign that Calvin spelled out in snow in his front yard and miss picking up the cows altogether.

 

[Oroblanco]

Hello again,

I wanted to add that there is a second avian species which could be the animal reported as "giant birds" that may even be a better candidate, Merriams Teratorn. This bird was huge, and according to one source could reach a wingspan of 24 feet (not as large as Argentine species and listed as 14 feet max on another site) and nearly as heavy; it was also a predator not just a scavenger. Merriams Teratorn survived at least into recorded history and was definitely encountered by Amerindians, who apparently did not revere the huge bird overmuch as they hunted and ate them as food. It is also probable that these Teratorns preyed on small children to some degree. It is assumed they are extinct, but we really cannot rule out the possibility that some small relict population may continue to survive even today in remote areas, and is occasionally spotted resulting in reports of "giant birds". Here is an extract from the Wikipedia site:

Merriams Teratorn and humans

T. merriami is the largest species of flying bird that without any doubt was encountered alive by humans. The initial reaction was probably one of awe, but as bones found in Amerindian middens show, the bird was not considered sacred enough not to be hunted. On the other hand, the species was probably large and possibly predatory enough to consider human infants food, albeit certainly not on a regular basis. After the species became extinct, its memory apparently persisted to form a major foundation, if not the foundation, for the Thunderbird myths. Somewhat simplifyingly, when the largest flying bird ever seen alive by humans was no more, it was transformed into a supernatural creature. It is of course impossible to prove nowadays that this species served as the factual basis underlying the Thunderbird of legend, but it is certain that the enormous Merriam's Teratorns, soaring in the thermal updrafts of an approaching thunderstorm, scouring the land for food far and wide, were a sight that was frequently enough encountered by the first humans to settle North America.


References

* Miller, Love H. (1909): Teratornis, a new avian genus from Rancho La Brea. Univ. California Publ., Bull. Dept. Geol. 5: 305-317.

The giant birds continue to be reported and there are several reported attacks on children dating to the 1840s as well as Amerindian verbal histories. Strange, no?

Oroblanco

 

[RatRacer]

Hey, Oroblanco, have you ever heard of/ read the book "Weird Pennsylvania"? It was written by the guys that do the "Weird U.S." TV show and Website. In the book is a sighting of a giant avian, described to be the size of a small aircraft. The sighting took place about 12 miles from where I am right now, in clear daylight, by multiple witnesses. I've never seen a bird bigger than a Golden eagle here in PA, but it is still pretty rural in some areas, so who knows? Keep searching!

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Then there was the Mothman in WV. That could have been a
large bird.

 

[gollum]

Hey Oro,

Catch Coast To Coast tonight. It is all about bigfoot!

www.coasttocoastam.com

Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

I have not heard of that book (Wierd PA) but will sure hunt up a copy! It IS a funny "coincidence" that the reported sightings of big birds matches pretty closely with what the believed range of the Teratorns was, and that we find those "thunderbird" legends in native tribes.

Mothman is even stranger (IMHO) and doesn't sound too much like any ordinary animal, living or fossil record! Anyone here ever encounter that thing?
Oroblanco

PS -Thanks for the heads-up Gollum! I will have to listen to the streaming version can't find Coast to Coast on our local radio stations.

 

[JT]

Interesting stuff, Oro. Did some info digging on big birds..and the info available is far from being conclusive. Size with birds definitely presents a problem. Research shows that right around 50 lbs is the absolute max weight for a bird to have any chance of getting off the ground. In Central Asia, Berkut Eagles (I think I spelled that right) have been specially bred for hunting for 2000 years..and the breeders have found that if the Eagles are heavier than 25 lbs., they have extreme difficulty taking off...and landing. Any bird with a very large wingspan would have a very difficult time getting off the ground, because the wings would tend to hit the ground. That's why the biggest birds tend to soar more than fly, per se'. The Pterodons..(again, spelling might be wrong, I'm at work) were only able to get aloft by holding their wings up into a breeze of 15 mph, and getting aloft like a kite.

It's a matter of structure...it's why fighter jets are built differently from big cargo planes. The Teratorns, which from what I've found, existed 8 million years ago. They had all of the necessary parts and structure for flight, but science has been unable to recreate how they did it..if they were even able to fly at all. For example, chickens have all of the necessary structures for flight, but you don't see flocks of wild chickens flying overhead.

It's a good debate, one that has no definitive answers. To play devils advocate again, if Teratorns existed today, somewhere in the world fairly recent remains would be found of one...at least logically they would, because we find fossilized remains of them. It's also impractical that birds with the wingspan of airplanes exist, because every single plane in the country can be picked up and tracked by radar. If plane-sized birds were flying around, they'd be seen on radar.

It's amazing that a bird the size of a Teratorn had to swallow their prey whole, because of their anatomical structure..limiting them to eating small rodents as their biggest possible prey...which again rules out the possibility of a Teratorn being the bird that supposedly picked up the child..65, 70, 75 lbs..I've seen all three weights mentioned in research...that bird wasn't anatomically equipped to do that.

It's a good debate, though, whether it be about Bigfoot, Big Birds, or whatever.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=JT link=]
There's no way...no way...the bird could have got him off of the ground, much less to the roof of his house. It's anatomically impossible.
***************

Not even if it had been eating lots of beans -a la JATO? Or even when assisted by the unwilling participant who would also have been into a JATO mode, or the necessity of changing his underwear..

Till Eulenspiegle de la Mancha

 

[JT]

Not even if it had been eating lots of beans -a la JATO? Or even when assisted by the unwilling participant who would also have been into a JATO mode, or the necessity of changing his underwear..

It would have taken beans similar to the refried beans I had the other night..

 

[Oroblanco]

Hello again,
I will defer to science for proof that Teratorns were able to fly, and that they existed at least into the age of man living in the Americas. Read this article on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teratornithidae

more is at the same site on individual species;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teratornis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_Teratorn

I will include a passage which is relevant, might have posted this before:

T. merriami is the largest species of flying bird that without any doubt was encountered alive by humans. The initial reaction was probably one of awe, but as bones found in Amerindian middens show, the bird was not considered sacred enough not to be hunted. On the other hand, the species was probably large and possibly predatory enough to consider human infants food, albeit certainly not on a regular basis. (bold and italics my emphasis)

from Ask.com
Despite their size, there is little doubt that even the largest teratorns could fly. Visible marks of the attachments of contour feathers can be seen on Argentavis wing bones. This defies some earlier theories that modern birds like Condors and Swans and Bustards represent the ultimate size limit for flying birds. Wing loading of Argentavis was relatively low, and if there were any significant wind present, the bird could probably get airborne merely by spreading its wings, just like modern Albatrosses. It is noteworthy that South America during Miocene probably featured strong and steady westerly winds, as the Andes were still forming and not yet very high.

Traditionally, teratorns have been described as large scavengers, very much like oversized condors, owing to considerable similarity with condors. However, long beaks of teratorns are more like the beaks of eagles and other active predatory birds, rather than vultures.

You know I had not even considered the importance of winds to such huge birds of prey - (yes they were predators, but probably ate much carrion as well just like eagles) and then compare this to the locations where giant birds have been reported (along with the seasons) I wonder if there is a correlation? Will take more research..... hmmm.

I am not making this up, friends, and it is not science fiction - all we need for this to be a genuine Cryptid is the finding of more recent remains - and not ALL of the remains already recovered are "fossils" - in fact some years ago there were photos of a five foot feather believed to have come from the larger species making the rounds. As for the odds that we MUST have found remains, keep in mind that we are talking about a species which was never numerous anywhere - in fact the Argentavis is known only from THREE sites in the world! Hardly a case where we MUST have already found remains if some survived longer! Especially since these birds would have most likely hung on in the most remote regions, not in areas of easy access.

That statement about chickens not flying must be referring to the heavy breeds. I have raised chickens of the bantam breeds, those have not been bred for extra heavy bodies over centuries, and they can fly as well as many birds! If you doubt it, go ask anyone who owns some bantam chickens. The species of bird which is thought to be the originator of all domesticated chickens is the "Jungle Fowl" of the Indian subcontinent, and these wild versions of chickens are able to fly very well indeed. Just look at domesticated turkeys compared to wild turkeys, and you can again see that our domesticated versions have been specifically bred to be heavier, while the wild birds can fly since they are not as heavy bodied. Aerodynamic calculations are great, but remember that according to the laws of physics and aerodynamics as we understand them, Bumblebees cannot fly!

Not to toss you off, but this thread is for the purpose of posting the personal experiences and those of close friends and relatives, not really for debating whether the stories are real or false - I am happy to offer to debate the existence of any of these critters on one of the other threads which is dedicated to that purpose. (Link is:

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,44582.msg355465.html)

Note reply #1 from our kind moderator Jeff, quote
"Since this is a Dicussion thread (Not meant for those who like to argue) & not a Complaint / Debate Thread, I moved it here.

Debating it here and inferring that people are "lying" is only serving to prevent other members from posting their own experiences, for no one cares for being ridiculed. So please, lets take the debate to one of the other threads which were created FOR that purpose, not try to call our members liars here? I don't mind anyone who wants to ridicule me personally, but won't sit idly by either .

I look forward to more of your own experiences, members, keep 'em coming!

Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

OHIO Once when I was prospecting for gold, a friend and I took our families to a remote wing way upriver of a damn to camp out. At that time I had a VW kombi with built in camping facilities. My wife and I slept in the vehicle. My friend had his family in a tent approx 15 ft from us. We were approx. 50 ft from the former high water mark which had left maybe 15 meters of mud on the shore.

During the night, about midnight, I had an urge to contribute to the lagoon and managed to cross over my wife to the door. naturally this woke her up also. I opened the door and promptly heard the sound of a heavy animal running away from our camp towards the water. It was heavy enough so that it turned stones and broke twigs in it's flight then it entered the water for perhaps 6 -7 steps making quite a bit of splashing sounds. I thought that it might be a horse or mule. I stepped outside, it was now completely quiet with not a bit of breeze. I heard a bit of gurgling from my friends tent, so I went over to ask if he had seen what it was. No answer, just huge eyes in the entire group. After asking again he croaked, "the Duendes".. I asked him to come with me to investigate, no way. he flatly refused to leave his tent.

I went to where I had heard the stones being turned over and the twigs being broken, nothing. I then went to where it had entered the water, again nothing, not a single mark in the 15 meter stretch of mud?? I went to the waters's, edge, still nothing, no disturbed water or mud stirred up from the bottom. It was as still as glass

None of us slept much that night. We debated moving the camp and went to a near by rancher to ask him about the problem. He replied "yes, It was the Duendes since they were guarding that particular gold placer. He said that "it was quite common at the precise spot where we had camped" . We decided that it had been a coincidence or whatever and stayed in the same camp site - bad move..

It happened again! Needless to say we moved camp some 50 meters away and had full nights sleeping after.

K explain?

Tropical Tramp

 

[gollum]

I have not heard of that book (Wierd PA) but will sure hunt up a copy! It IS a funny "coincidence" that the reported sightings of big birds matches pretty closely with what the believed range of the Teratorns was, and that we find those "thunderbird" legends in native tribes.

Mothman is even stranger (IMHO) and doesn't sound too much like any ordinary animal, living or fossil record! Anyone here ever encounter that thing?
Oroblanco

PS -Thanks for the heads-up Gollum! I will have to listen to the streaming version can't find Coast to Coast on our local radio stations.

Come on Roy! It's the new millenium!

Go to KFI640.com (local AM Radio Station). At ten (10) PM Pacific Time, follow the links and click on Listen Now. You can listen to Coast To Coast on your computer. It will run from 10PM PST until 2AM PST, and then repeat from 2AM until 4AM.

Best,

Mike

 

[gollum]

Like I have said before Oro,

More modern Indian TBird stories give TBird it's name because it arrives with the thunderstorms every year (Thunderstorms arrive, so do the big birds= ThunderBirds)! That might also be how the older Indian Legengs name the TBird. Since they were a little more superstitious than the modern indians, they may have believed that the TBirds brought the storms with them, rather than the birds migrate with the storms.

All that wind would make it MUCH easier for the birds to take off and fly.

Best,

Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

Hello Friends,

Tropical Tramp - did your friends catch sight of the Duendes? I ask this because of what I have been told by 'locals' that they are almost always seen wearing large hats. (One fellow told me he saw a Duende wearing a hat something like a sombrero, but taller peak and pointed, that he said looked like it was made of "spun gold" - this was the one under the bridge, which happens to be a gold-bearing stream that the locals worked with Bateas for cerveza money.) Funny though they do seem to be reported right around gold and / or silver areas, but then perhaps this is only due to the fact that prospectors and miners end up in the most remote spots so have better chances of encountering them?

No tracks in the mud though, that would bother me - was there some way that a small person would have been able to avoid stepping in the mud? If you think about this it makes it less likely that any ordinary animal was the intruder - animals don't take any extra efforts to avoid stepping in mud!

Hio Gollum! If I told you the way radios work here, you would either not believe it or we would have mining companies up here staking claims everywhere tomorrow. I can get only ONE radio station in either AM or FM here, and it is a local station that is all church-oriented. Strange to say but if you drive down out of the hills, you can get quite a few stations, but here is a real "dead spot" for radio and not great for TV either. (With a house-type antenna, you can get three stations clear enough to see, one of which is all Spanish and I think coming from Mexico based on the commercials - thank Ya-weh for satellite TV and internet!) I had a link to an online site which had streaming versions of the Coast to Coast radio program, but my best headphones are in the case with the detector (which is in the pickup) and I am too danged lazy to go get it. I did hear that the recent Bigfoot episode had a caller who claimed that the Russians have a Bigfoot body in storage, which was supposed to have been killed in N. California when the Russians had a fur-trading station there. I sure will follow up on this, though it may turn out to be like the Iceman that made the carnival circuits in the upper midwest years ago - nowhere to be found today. Did you catch that Bigfoot program?
Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=Oroblanco

Tropical Tramp - did your friends catch sight of the Duendes?
************

I forgot to mention that it was a moonless night, no light. Hence we saw nothing.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Funny though they do seem to be reported right around gold and / or silver areas, but then perhaps this is only due to the fact that prospectors and miners end up in the most remote spots so have better chances of encountering them?
************

Sabe, who knows, but there apparently are different types of Duendes or spirits ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No tracks in the mud though, that would bother me - was there some way that a small person would have been able to avoid stepping in the mud? If you think about this it makes it less likely that any ordinary animal was the intruder - animals don't take any extra efforts to avoid stepping in mud!
***************

There was no way that "anything" could have crossed that mud area without leaving tracks, from a field mouse to a horse or cow.

You must remember that I mentioned hearing the sounds of a large heavy animal running. You have heard this yourself, they turn rocks over and break brush or small twigs. Just riding along, you will feel and hear them turning stones or rocks over, right?.

Also what about the heavy splashing of several steps in the water, yet a visual search showed nothing had stirred the clear shallow water, no silt floating, mark sin the bottom mud, etc.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tropical Tramp

 

[Oroblanco]

Hello again my friend!
I must admit that I would likely have been afflicted with a good case of the "creeps" - especially after NOT finding any tracks in the mud patch. As much as I am a believer in many mysteries, it helps me to understand them (at least in some kind of theory) if I can categorize it as a flesh-and-blood animal, or as an entity that does not possess a body. When we have something that can act as a solid (flipping over rocks etc) then as a non-solid (leaving no tracks in the mud) I have trouble wrapping my brain around it. The logical answer is this was not an ordinary animal that walks on the ground, but one that can fly. Since your camp was near a stream, is it possible that a shore bird might have payed a night visit? I don't want to dismiss the encounter as NOT a Duende, but some types of herons get quite large - over five feet tall, and do hunt along streams often flipping stones in their hunt for small fish and crustaceans. They also hunt at night, though are more active around dawn and dusk.

I would sure not care to camp in that site personally, as I do not really think this was a case of a shore bird hunting fishes - for they are normally quite shy of humans and the sight of tents would be enough to keep them at some distance. I believe that old saw about "where there is smoke, there must be at least a little fire" is true - and you mentioned that the locals reported Duendes in that area.

I always wonder about night time visitors to a human camp in the wilds. Where hunting is common, you don't get wild animals visiting human camps, night or otherwise - but in places like Yellowstone Park where they are fully protected, you have horrific encounters with grizzlies killing campers etc. So when you have something brave enough to come into your camp, I would like to know if that area is used by hunters? If not, then the odds of an ordinary wild animal (like a great blue or grey heron) making a visit out of curiosity are fair, if it IS hunted, then in my opinion it is unlikely this was some ordniary animal making a night call.

I don't mean to keep bugging you about this encounter but the Duendes have always interested me - in some areas in South America they are thought of as more like an animal, in others they are strange little people. Have you been back to that area since the night incidents? Do you know if anyone ever found any sort of strange "nests" or signs of habitations in caves near there?

The reason I ask is two fold - for in Wyoming there were stories of finding little "nests" in small caves in the mountains, often lined with dry grasses, and the strangest of all had small campfires (old) nearby! I have never found a campfire ring with old charcoal and blackened stones the size of these - supposedly you could cover the burned spot with a coffee mug and the ring of stones were smaller than tennis balls. I am NOT making a claim that Duendes might use fire, as my own father taught me a trick (while hunting deer in extreme cold) of building a tiny fire that you could fit into a coffee can (he said never to make it any larger) and use this to keep your hands warm - then watch the smoke trail downwind; more than once a nice buck would meet his end, by following up a tiny trail of smoke! (Many times had does too - even deer have a streak of curiosity it seems) So the reports of tiny "campfires" in the mountains may have nothing to do with the tiny mummies or little people, but just be hunters using an old Appalachian trick while keeping their hands warm hunting.

As to the nests, my wife and I have found "nests" in old caves and old mine tunnels, which were neither pack rat nor cougar dens - (cougar dens are neat but usually have bits of old bone, hair, etc and the space is usually about what a mountain lion would "fit" into) and we were left scratching our heads. In one case, we found where a PERSON had apparently lived far back in one of our old mine tunnels for some time! It was an old un-used tunnel drift that the entrance was nearly completely washed in over the years, and we found a small "room" more than 150 feet back in and off to one side, where someone had made a "nest" of dry grass about six feet in diameter. What threw ME was that there were old cans there, and a small spot where the person must have heated up his cans of beans. Who would toss their trash (empty cans) two feet from where he was sleeping? At one time I was too chicken to even go INTO old mine tunnels (they are dangerous) but in our own mine I got pretty comfortable with them - (that caliche is as hard as concrete) but I can't imagine sleeping in one - the rats, scorpions and snakes would just be too much for me. Even stranger is that this old mine tunnel is twelve miles as the crow flies from a road, let alone a town, and the nearest spring for water was (is) more than three miles down the canyon. My best guess is that this was a person on the run from the law, but wow if that is living on the "lam" then I want NO part of it!

Well I need to address your reply in the other thread, sorry to keep pestering you with more questions but you are the first American I have met who had an encounter with Duendes - in other cases I have a tough time as I can't speak Spanish enough to even stay out of trouble so have to ask someone to interpret.

Oroblanco