Wood Finishing Question?

[bigscoop]

Hoping a few of you are experienced with this as I could use some sound advice.

Getting ready to finish a "laminated" block of wood that contains ash, cedar, and oak. However, when I apply stain to the block all the various wood shades take that same color set, instead of the lighter woods being lighter shades as I had hoped for. So how do you finish these laminated blocks without losing the natural/separating tones of these mixed woods? I just can't seem to get it right.

[Hill Billy]

Don't use a stain, try a clear urethane and get the 3 natural wood colors.

[AU24K]

[center]

I have had good results with Murphy's oil.
It is color neutral and allows each wood to take on it's own personality.







I made these boxes over 10 years ago. Looks like they need another oiling.

Best,
Scott

[dances for eels]

An old North Carolina furniture maker taught me this: use mineral oil from the laxative aisle at the grocery;
it's cheap and works great----for new wood, oil 3 times a week for the first month and then as necessary.

[bigscoop]

Thanks to all! Clearly it appears that I'm going to have to play around with some scrap wood pieces for a while. Might end up using an oil but I was hoping to darken things up just a touch. The problem "I think" is that the ash and cedar, being softer woods, absorb more stain then the denser oak sections, which allows them to darken too much. At least, I think this may be the problem but I'm not sure?

[Frankn]

Bigscoop, I just refinished a table with inlayed color sections. First I spread a thick stripper and let it sit the designated time. Most of the scratches were in the finish so this took care of most when I scraped off the gooey stripper. I next applied WATCO danish oil. I used light walnut but you would probably be better off with Natural. This is applied with a cloth. Just rub it on and let it soak in for about 10 min. then wipe off the excess. Let it dry overnight then ,if you want it glossy, apply a thick coat of polyurethane. Use only an oil base. Frank

[bsloan]

Have you considered linseed oil? I have used it on cedar and oak, it makes the grain and color pop. I have not worked with ash yet.
I also have not worked with ant sealer other than paste wax, or lacquer. Best of luck, and I would love to see a picture of the completed project.

Bill

[bigscoop]

Have you considered linseed oil? I have used it on cedar and oak, it makes the grain and color pop. I have not worked with ash yet.
I also have not worked with ant sealer other than paste wax, or lacquer. Best of luck, and I would love to see a picture of the completed project.

Bill

It's just a hardwood riser for a custom made takedown hunting bow from scratch, nothing too grand, and actually just sort of a test piece as I deal with the all learning curves.

I might use Linseed oil but before I do I want to see what others have used in this type of situation. Question though,....can you clearcoat (gloss) the finished piece after the oil cures/sets? And if so, with what? Can I use polly over an oil base?

[Frankn]

Bigscoop, read my post above! Clear poly that is oil base makes a great finish over oil stains.
Frank

[diggemall]

Bigscoop, there are quite a variety of wood stains & finishes out there, and each type will yield different results with different wood species. You are correct in your assertion that the cedar soaks up more finish than the oak or ash (which tend to behave quite a bit like each other with most stains)

I tend to classify stains in three groups:

Water-based - these TEND to remain more on the surface of the wood and can produce quite different results simply based on how heavily you apply them: applied lightly, they behave like a penetrating stain, showing the grain of the wood. Applied heavily and allowed to dry, they can be more like a paint, masking much of the woods grain.

Oil-based penetrating stains - these drive deeper into the wood and usually highlight the grain characteristics more so than other stain types.

Top-coating stain / finishes - these are hard finishes (Minwax Polyshades is one example) that have pigment mixed in with them. You can, more or less, think of these like a piece of cellophane - they will lay their color OVER whatever is underneath. My experience with these is that they are best applied with a sprayer and an even hand in light coats building to whatever color density you are aiming for.

Given the tendency of woods like cedar to "suck up" whatever you apply, my tendency in your case would be to apply a sealer or "conditioner" to the whole works to close up the porous cedar grain, then apply either a water-based stain or a top-coating stain / finish, followed by a clear-coat.

Heads-up on top coats - oil based polyurethanes will impart a slight "amber cast" that will darken somewhat over time, whereas water-based top-coats tend to be more colorless.

I wouldn't go the route of applying a top-coat over a finish like tung oil or mineral oil - you may have adhesion problems down the road, especially if the part will be flexing at all (like a bow). If using a polyurethane finish, it is also important to lightly sand between coats for proper adhesion.

Diggem'

[Dave44]

Nice post by diggemall. If it flexes it will be bad for finishes, But stains will obscure the grain and wood type. A bow must be able to withstand the elements,, you should go with oilbase. Try a neutral or even a pine type stain. It will yellow a bit though.

[bigscoop]

Great reply Diggemall!

Getting a much better picture how the different stains are designed and what applications might be best. Thanks for taking so much time to explain it all!

Frankn,
I've used the poly before but in past experience I have noticed it will "tint yellow" a bit over time, especially when introduced to sunlight/heat on a regular basis, as I'm hoping this bow will be.......(if I ever get the whole "making good limbs" thing down?) That's another reason I'm "attempting" making a takedown, so once the riser is done I can keep making just the limbs until I get a better feel for all the dynamics and such. My first attempt resulted in a snapped limb. My second attempt resulted not in a snapped limb, but eventual limb twist. So...........

Thanks to all! We'll see what happens with this little project.

[Rick (Nova Scotia)]

Don't use a stain, try a clear urethane and get the 3 natural wood colors.

I too much prefer clear, be it urethane, laquer, epoxy or what ever, there is even a product called 50 coats in one, great for table tops. Even clear brings out grain, color, character more than you would expect.

Yes I did build this stuff myself. and much more

[Rick (Nova Scotia)]

Great reply Diggemall!

Getting a much better picture how the different stains are designed and what applications might be best. Thanks for taking so much time to explain it all!

Frankn,
I've used the poly before but in past experience I have noticed it will "tint yellow" a bit over time, especially when introduced to sunlight/heat on a regular basis, as I'm hoping this bow will be.......(if I ever get the whole "making good limbs" thing down?) That's another reason I'm "attempting" making a takedown, so once the riser is done I can keep making just the limbs until I get a better feel for all the dynamics and such. My first attempt resulted in a snapped limb. My second attempt resulted not in a snapped limb, but eventual limb twist. So...........

Thanks to all! We'll see what happens with this little project.

Always interested in making a bow, tried it once out of a single piece. Do you have some kind of plan.

PS, Spar varnish will not yellow in the sun. UV blockers, or whatever the terminology is, is made for outdoor use, such as the canoes I built.

[bigscoop]

Great reply Diggemall!

Getting a much better picture how the different stains are designed and what applications might be best. Thanks for taking so much time to explain it all!

Frankn,
I've used the poly before but in past experience I have noticed it will "tint yellow" a bit over time, especially when introduced to sunlight/heat on a regular basis, as I'm hoping this bow will be.......(if I ever get the whole "making good limbs" thing down?) That's another reason I'm "attempting" making a takedown, so once the riser is done I can keep making just the limbs until I get a better feel for all the dynamics and such. My first attempt resulted in a snapped limb. My second attempt resulted not in a snapped limb, but eventual limb twist. So...........

Thanks to all! We'll see what happens with this little project.

Always interested in making a bow, tried it once out of a single piece. Do you have some kind of plan.

PS, Spar varnish will not yellow in the sun. UV blockers, or whatever the terminology is, is made for outdoor use, such as the canoes I built.

Here's where I started http://poorfolkbows.com/oak.htm and from here it was a lot of continued research, errors in judgment, and continued learning...which I'm still doing on a daily basis.

Thanks for the insight! Love the canoes!

[diggemall]

I too much prefer clear, be it urethane, laquer, epoxy or what ever, there is even a product called 50 coats in one, great for table tops. Even clear brings out grain, color, character more than you would expect.

Yes I did build this stuff myself. and much more

Nice work ! I've always wanted to try a strip-built boat (canoe, kayak, whatever) but have yet to make the time for it (always too many other projects & 'honey-do's').

Diggem'

[Rick (Nova Scotia)]

I too much prefer clear, be it urethane, laquer, epoxy or what ever, there is even a product called 50 coats in one, great for table tops. Even clear brings out grain, color, character more than you would expect.

Yes I did build this stuff myself. and much more

Nice work ! I've always wanted to try a strip-built boat (canoe, kayak, whatever) but have yet to make the time for it (always too many other projects & 'honey-do's').

Diggem'

Thanks Diggemall, I did / do take great pride in my work / hobbies. If you ever do "take the plunge" and go for building a woodstrip, this a great, and probably indespensible book "Canoe craft" by Ted Moores and Merilyn Mohr. It even contains a few plans.

[RGINN]

Well, this probably won't work so try it on scraps first. Mix up Elmer's white glue and water 50-50 or so and paint that on the wood. Sand it smooth and polyurethane the crap out of it. The glue and water seal the wood and protect the color. Like I said, try it on scraps first and see if it works for you.

[diggemall]

Well, this probably won't work so try it on scraps first. Mix up Elmer's white glue and water 50-50 or so and paint that on the wood. Sand it smooth and polyurethane the crap out of it. The glue and water seal the wood and protect the color. Like I said, try it on scraps first and see if it works for you.

RG - if you've got the polyurethane, just thin it about 20 - 25% with mineral spirits for the seal coat. Dries pretty quick, seals up those pores, and gets the "fuzzys" standing up nice and proud so you can knock 'em off with a little sanding. I personally like the 3M style sanding sponges (I actually use Mirka that I get in bulk - forget the HF ones, they're junk) for most hand sanding tasks too - especially one that has been "broken in". They wear like iron, and follow contours like nobody's business.

One more tip - if you want to get an idea of what a piece will look like with a clear coat, wipe it down with a rag soaked with mineral spirits - you'll get a 'sneak preview' that will evaporate after a few minutes and not leave anything behind that will interfere with your finish.

Diggem'