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  1. #1
    us
    Pronounced "Shadow" - ---= Wolfpack Forever! =---

    Sep 2011
    Southeast Arkansas
    Ace 250
    3,510
    2070 times
    Cache Hunting

    How is this "saving energy" for the long haul?

    Energy saver this, Econo model that . . . has anyone ever wondered if these "new appliances" are actually saving energy, or simply a ruse to make money?

    I do work for a "Furniture and Appliance" dealer. I love the new LCD and LED televisions, the pictures are fantastic! According to the tags they are supposed to use less energy (probably do) than my old tv. On the other hand, there is one big drawback --- whereas the old CRT televisions were designed to last 10 years (that was the "average" life expectancy) the new sets are designed to be dead after 5 years of normal use . . . max.

    So, while there is some energy savings while the set is being watched (compared to old Betsy . . . 20+ year old Magnavox set) I got to wondering: How much energy does it take to BUILD one of those sets. Since on average it will take two of the new style sets to last as long as the average CRT, if the manufacturing process uses very much energy it would offset any energy savings that might have been realized. In the case of old Betsy, it would take manufacturing 4 of the sets.

    So, here we go to google, ask and the other search engines. Guess what? You can find out how much energy it takes to make an aluminum can, bottle 16 oz of water, or make a tube of toothpaste but not how much energy it takes to make the new televisions, the new "energy efficient" appliances, etc.

    I am beginning to wonder if we've been sold a bill of goods in order to pick our pockets?

    A washer used to last 5-7 years. Now they don't last two. It is not unusual for the old style dryers to last 20 years. Mine is 10 years old and still works like new. They won't make two years anymore. All appliances must now have an embedded computer control. Anything that can be programmed to work can also be programmed to fail. Is that happening? I don't know, but to me it sure looks suspiciously like a guy who worked for a glass company in New Orleans. He took to the streets with a BB gun in the late hours of the evening in order to shoot out windows at the used and new car lots back in the 1970's.

    Are we supposed to believe that building these appliances doesn't use energy? No energy to make the metal body, motors, switches, springs, etc.?

    Is a "disposable" appliance really an efficient use of "scarce" resources, or is the allegation that resources are scarce an even bigger ruse?

    Does anyone else thing things are getting screwy?
    Know your homophones (as opposed to homophobes like me)! Know which ones to use ... and their meaning:

    "Know" is related to knowledge, while "No" is a negative response.

    "There" is a location, while "Their" shows possession and "They're" is the contraction of "They are".

    "Which" specifies an item from a set but a "Witch" casts spells and wears a pointy black hat.

    "Patients" (people receiving medical care) must show "patience" (tolerate delay).


  2. #2
    us
    Apr 2005
    915
    89 times
    Before buying a new energy efficient refrigerator,(my old one was a 22 year old side-by-side), I did a lot of research. I asked all kinds of questions before I decided. Although you can still buy a regular refrigerator, not energy efficient, and they are cheaper to purchase, I decided to buy an energy efficient one. All appliances have have been redesigned to last less time than the older ones. My tv is about 20 years old and I am guessing could expire any time, so I have been looking at tv sets. Plasma tv's have the leas life span. LCD and LED have a longer lifespan and are more durable, plus they require less energy. LED's are the most efficient light sources that we can use. By replacing our lights in our home with LED's and especially in our refrigerators, we can use far less electricity. Each time the fridge is opened the light heats the interior. The fridge has to work harder to repace that heat. LED's do not get hot and therefore require less cooling. My new fridge has LED's built in it. This technology has been and is being applied to all consumer goods to reduce power requirements. The government has mandated when no more incadescent bulbswill be sold and many places are already phasing them out. When buying an energy efficent appliance, it is always a good idea to take the extended warranty. It is much cheaper than replcing the appliance. All these savings are miniscule compared to your greatest energy user(water heater), so adding extra insulation will help. I installed a tankless water heater and am very glad that I did. Good Luck. rockhound

  3. #3
    us
    Pronounced "Shadow" - ---= Wolfpack Forever! =---

    Sep 2011
    Southeast Arkansas
    Ace 250
    3,510
    2070 times
    Cache Hunting
    Alas, you are still making the assumption that the energy expended to make these inferior products effectively doesn't exist. It's like no matter how much we expend in making "throw away" appliances, it will not hurt in the long run.

    I guess my first post may have skirted too gently on the idea:

    Throw away televisions with 1/4 the lifespan of the old ones meant that you will have to MANUFACTURE 4 of these sets to replace one of the old ones.

    The same with Refrigerators, Washers, Dryers, etc.

    I believe we've been sold a bill of goods by the supposed "greenies" whose only real "Green" concern is the cash in our pockets.

    To be energy efficient, they would have to consume . . . not 1/2 of the electricity but 1/10 simply because it does take energy to produce these things. It takes energy to mine the resources, to transport to market, to transport home, to go and do the shopping . . .

    If you're gonna make the darned things, why not make them last longer as well? Answer: Money.
    Know your homophones (as opposed to homophobes like me)! Know which ones to use ... and their meaning:

    "Know" is related to knowledge, while "No" is a negative response.

    "There" is a location, while "Their" shows possession and "They're" is the contraction of "They are".

    "Which" specifies an item from a set but a "Witch" casts spells and wears a pointy black hat.

    "Patients" (people receiving medical care) must show "patience" (tolerate delay).


  4. #4
    us
    Apr 2005
    915
    89 times
    The appeal of energy efficient is a catch phrase for those who are looking to save money. These energy efficient appliances as well as bulbs are not intended to last longer than their pedecessors but only partially as long in duration. It is the same with autos and everything else, more energy efficient but not necessarily more durable. We now live in a throwaway society and as such, we consume and discard many things that end up in the dump. Recycling helps some but the majority of material ends up in the dump. You do actually save energy over an older appliance but not in the long run, short term only. They are designed to do just that. The compressors on the refirgerators are under far greater pressure than older models and give out sooner, even though they consume less energy. This is not a design flaw, but rather a manufacturer requirement to sell more appliances and autos. Good Luck. rockhound

  5. #5
    us
    I deal in reality

    Mar 2010
    Maryland
    XLT , surfmaster PI , HAYS 2Box , VIBRA-TECTOR
    8,147
    2196 times
    All right here the scoop. Back in the 60's I had a radio and TV repair business. You could repair a TV forever. All the parts were replaceable. There were some bad guys in the TV repair business that would replace a part with an underrated part. It insured a call every 6 mo on that tv. I think that is what is happening now to limit the life of products. A LED TV should also last forever, BUT, It is nor repairable. The printed circuit inclosure is welded closed and the "parts" are now deposited and sealed on the boards. Some cabinets are actually solvent welded closed. When My TV started to act wakky, I tried to repair it , but found that it could not be repaired. I think underrated components are used to limit the life of products. Some are even programmed to fail Like ink cartridges in printers. Look at your detector. If there is a problem during guarentee it is most likely that the board is tossed and a new one installed. Electronics today are not made to be repairable. When My GPS went up I marked the parts and case and sent it in for repairs. I got a new one back. If you are the sneaky type, kill it about one month bName:  hand print-2_edited-3.jpg
Views: 78
Size:  39.7 KBefore the warrenty expires and get a new one.
    Last edited by Frankn; Jun 07, 2012 at 11:16 AM.

  6. #6
    us
    Jul 2009
    Whiting, NJ
    Ace 250
    10,505
    993 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    For once I'm with Frankn.

    Just look at toilet paper.. It has 2 sides, yet we only use one, thereby throwing away 1/2 the product

  7. #7
    us
    Pronounced "Shadow" - ---= Wolfpack Forever! =---

    Sep 2011
    Southeast Arkansas
    Ace 250
    3,510
    2070 times
    Cache Hunting
    Somehow I have misstated my point here.

    IT IS THE VERY SAME JACKASSESS THAT GRIPE AND MOAN ABOUT HOW WE HAVE NO ENERGY TO KEEP LIVING THE WAY WE DO, WHO ARE PROMOTING THIS I*N*C*R*E*A*S*E IN THE AMOUNT OF ENERGY BEING EXPENDED TO PRODUCE INFERIOR PRODUCTS.

    They use less energy per hours while in operation, but the dipwads ignore how much energy it takes to BUILD this stuff.

    It has NAUGHT to do with reliability, it has to do with STUPIDITY on the part of the greenies.

    THEY CAN'T SEE BEYOND THE ZITS AT THE END OF THEIR NOSES!!! All they know is everyone has always done everything wrong. Rather than finding a way to do something RIGHT, they come up with a quick fix that EXACERBATES the problem.
    Know your homophones (as opposed to homophobes like me)! Know which ones to use ... and their meaning:

    "Know" is related to knowledge, while "No" is a negative response.

    "There" is a location, while "Their" shows possession and "They're" is the contraction of "They are".

    "Which" specifies an item from a set but a "Witch" casts spells and wears a pointy black hat.

    "Patients" (people receiving medical care) must show "patience" (tolerate delay).


  8. #8
    us
    I deal in reality

    Mar 2010
    Maryland
    XLT , surfmaster PI , HAYS 2Box , VIBRA-TECTOR
    8,147
    2196 times
    The point I was trying to get across was that most electronic equippment can not be repaired. AsName:  hand print-2_edited-3.jpg
Views: 58
Size:  39.7 KB far as appliances, my 3 year old dryer died. The heating coil burned out. I went to get one and found out that you have to buy the mounting plate, insulators and heating coil as an assembly at almost half the cost of a new dryer. I bought a new dryer of the same design and stripped the old one. I now have a complete set of replacement parts, that is except for the heating coil. As far as the Green Movement, it has turned into the jolly green giant gone beserk.

  9. #9

    Apr 2012
    Clark County Washington
    Tiger Shark 8" coil, Tejon 8"x9" and 5.75" WS, clean sweep coil, Gray ghost deep woods headphones Whites TRX pointer Minelab Quattro, Garrett gold stinger
    1,018
    210 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I worked for several solar companies and became very aware that solar panels contribute to global warming. I was in a position where i could challege claims made by other Engineers regarding carbon footprint. (my challenges were not refuted, but ignored) The claim is : It takes three years in an area with a lot of sunlight to recover the electricity to create the solar cells used in a panel. They want you to believe this is accounts for all the energy and disregard all the other industries that consume energy in support of this manufacter. The final cost of the product is a clue and a direct result of all the energy it takes to make solar panels.

    No one should ever buy a solar panel system without government subsidy. The lifetime of panels is theoretical and doesnot reflect actual failures do to environment, vandalism etc. Your 20 year pro - rated waranty on a panel amounts to 5% off replacement cost at 19 years.

    But it sounds like such a great idea, free energy from the sun!
    It's no wonder truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense. Mark Twain

  10. #10
    Charter Member
    us
    *************** WHAT YOU DO WITH THE FINDS YOU DIG UP IS YOUR BUSINESS AND NO ONE ELSES, IGNORE ANYONE ON A SOAPBOX TRYING TO PREACH OTHERWISE! **************

    Jul 2006
    Orlando, Fl
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    I'm still using My digital Mitsub itchii 55 inch wide screen TV I bought in 2001, have not had a single issue with it yet....... Picture is stil bright and crisp, no one in home smokes and I do not allow anyone to smoke in my hone inclduding the back porch....




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  11. #11
    us
    Pronounced "Shadow" - ---= Wolfpack Forever! =---

    Sep 2011
    Southeast Arkansas
    Ace 250
    3,510
    2070 times
    Cache Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Treasure_Hunter View Post
    I'm still using My digital Mitsub itchii 55 inch wide screen TV I bought in 2001, have not had a single issue with it yet....... Picture is stil bright and crisp, no one in home smokes and I do not allow anyone to smoke in my hone inclduding the back porch....
    Change the "c" in that set name to "s" and two things happen:

    1. Filter doesn't kick it out and
    2. It doesn't look weird to a former Mitsubishi dealer, like me.

    DLP in Mitsubishi (or anyone else) is 3 years tops unless you play it 1 or 2 hours a week. LCD sets last longer.

    Just as with the old sets, which averaged a 10 year life span, some went much longer. I recently removed a Magnavox (the repairmen always called them "maggot box" for some reason) that was 25 years old and still working. Probably the only Magnavox television from the original manufacturer that still works (they went belly up and an oriental company bought the "brand").
    Know your homophones (as opposed to homophobes like me)! Know which ones to use ... and their meaning:

    "Know" is related to knowledge, while "No" is a negative response.

    "There" is a location, while "Their" shows possession and "They're" is the contraction of "They are".

    "Which" specifies an item from a set but a "Witch" casts spells and wears a pointy black hat.

    "Patients" (people receiving medical care) must show "patience" (tolerate delay).


 

 

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