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  1. #16
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    Wherever there be treasure!
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    Quote Originally Posted by packerbacker View Post
    Scoop, my friend, you wrote: "Today we live in a society that sees nothing wrong with allowing the use of assault rifles in the sporting field."
    What are you calling a "Assault rifle"? If you are like the libbys here in California, it's rifles like the AR-15, AK-47 and SKS's etc. Yes, I DO approve of the use of these weapons in the sporting field. Thing is, the legal ones are not capable of fully automatic firing or even delivering a burst. They are all semi-autos that are legally used in the sporting field. I'm an outdoor enthusiast myself and I would not approve, and NONE of the others I have hunted with would approve, the use of a fully automatic weapon in the field. Thing is, AK-47 is very scary to the general, uneducated public. My son told the lady at Walmart he was looking for some ammo for his SKS's. He told her it was the same round as used in the AK-47, 7.62 X 39. Her astonished reply was, "Oh, those are illegal, we can't sell those here". Then he said, "Oh, there they are", as he pointed them out in the cabinet. They are a smaller round with less killing distance capability than say a 30-06, 300 Win Mag or .338 Win Mag and yet there isn't a problem using any of these rounds in a semi-automatic rifle for hunting. The problem?................uneducated, scared-to-death citizens falling prey to anti-gunners beliefs and desired control over everyone else's life. Wake up America!
    Packerbacker,

    Here's the real world situation, "It's not guns that kill people, people kill people." It is the argument gun enthusiast and advocates have preached and utilized since day one of the gun control issue/debate. It is a terrible argument to carry. Why? Because it also screams the need for some means of gun control. If you don't, or can't blame the weapon, then the blame falls squarely on the people, so obviously some people should not have access to guns, so therefore some means of gun control is required. AK's, AR's, SKS's. these "weapons" were designed for the battlefield, not the sporting field, and as such they should remain there. The sporting field is not, and should not be open to the possibility of being viewed as a battlefield under any light. To do otherwise is extremely irresponsible. You may not have that potential mindset, but there are many who do and they just want to kill something with their really cool military style weapon they just purchased. I've witnessed this mentality so many times it is very scary, indeed. You and your hunting buddies may not harbor this mentality but I am 100% certain that if you have spent much time in gun shops or the sporting field you have run across those that do. If not, then yours is truly a very rare case, indeed. And it's not the anti-gunners scaring citizens, it things like the increase in recent school house and work place shootings where completely innocent people are being killed. Blaming it on the anti-gunners is pure denial. Like I said, I have guns and enjoy them, but at some point gun advocates are the ones who have to wake up to the reality of the situation. You can't place the blame on the people behind the weapon and then in the same breath deny the need for some means of gun control to prevent these people from accessing weapons. Somewhere the line has to be drawn but gun advocates continue to live in denial of their own claim that, "Guns don't kill, people do."
    FarmerChick likes this.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  2. #17
    us
    May 2005
    Northern California
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    So you are saying that, because a SKS "looks" like a military weapon, it causes the mentally imbalanced person to go off?? We won't even go into ballistics because, ballistically the 338 is far more deadly than a SKS but, these are an SKS and a .338 Lapur. The .338 Lapur will soon make the same rifle in a .300 Win Mag caliber. I think the "style" of the Lapur looks more militaristic than the SKS so a person is more likely to go off carrying one of these than carrying a SKS? I know this gun control stuff, and all of the politics that go with it, can turn into a big peeing match but I like to use facts or realistic stats when discussing such matters. I know folks can be animate one way or another in all conversations but, if one calmly looks at the facts, matters can be settled much more agreeably.
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    Banking off a Northeast wind, sailin' on a summer breeze

  3. #18
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    Wherever there be treasure!
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
    13,998
    8675 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by packerbacker View Post
    So you are saying that, because a SKS "looks" like a military weapon, it causes the mentally imbalanced person to go off?? We won't even go into ballistics because, ballistically the 338 is far more deadly than a SKS but, these are an SKS and a .338 Lapur. The .338 Lapur will soon make the same rifle in a .300 Win Mag caliber. I think the "style" of the Lapur looks more militaristic than the SKS so a person is more likely to go off carrying one of these than carrying a SKS? I know this gun control stuff, and all of the politics that go with it, can turn into a big peeing match but I like to use facts or realistic stats when discussing such matters. I know folks can be animate one way or another in all conversations but, if one calmly looks at the facts, matters can be settled much more agreeably.
    Fact; School and workplace shootings are on a dramatic rise. Gun enthusiast blame the person behind the gun, "self included". Without some means of gun control how do you stop these senseless killings? "Education" is alsways the number one go-to here, but this is poured out as if everyone can be, or wants to be, educated, and then as if they would, or would want to, act responsible after these requirements. But in here lays the real issue at heart, the only way to enforce these policies is by implementing some means of gun control, which those gun advocates who "calmly" debate still refuse even though these remedies are the basis of their continued argument. The biggest problem is that "we" gun enthusiast have continued to be our own worst enemies in the issue by failing to yield to the obvious need for gun control measures.

    And Packerbacker, how many rounds does a responsible hunter need to down an elk or deer? Where I come from, just one, or possibly two.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  4. #19
    us
    I deal in reality

    Mar 2010
    Maryland
    XLT , surfmaster PI , HAYS 2Box , VIBRA-TECTOR
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    Bigscoop, you are in over your head here! Assault is a verb, it is a form of action, not a form of gun. any gun can be branded an assault weapon if used by the aggressor. When I was in the army, only fully automatic weapons were referred to as assult weapons. I used an MI rifle and it was just that, a rifle. On the other hand the BAR was fully automatic and was refered to as an assault weapon.

    When I went to HS, I was in the Sportsman's Club. We brought guns to school to teach others about there usage and safety. Today you can't take a gun within 100 yards of a school. The gun thus has become the forbidden fruit.

    I was once a Federal Firearms Dealer and I had a difference experience than you. Most guns I sole were to people who wanted them for hunting, target shooting, and home defense.

    I own a variety of pistols, rifles and shotguns that I shoot at home on my 100yard range. My neighbor has a 200foot range. The crime rate around here is very low.

    I think more people are killed by cars than guns, do you enjoy walking?

    As I said I think you went off the deep end on this one. You do better on your satire posts. Frank
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  5. #20
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    Wherever there be treasure!
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankn View Post
    Bigscoop, you are in over your head here! Assault is a verb, it is a form of action, not a form of gun. any gun can be branded an assault weapon if used by the aggressor. When I was in the army, only fully automatic weapons were referred to as assult weapons. I used an MI rifle and it was just that, a rifle. On the other hand the BAR was fully automatic and was refered to as an assault weapon.

    When I went to HS, I was in the Sportsman's Club. We brought guns to school to teach others about there usage and safety. Today you can't take a gun within 100 yards of a school. The gun thus has become the forbidden fruit.

    I was once a Federal Firearms Dealer and I had a difference experience than you. Most guns I sole were to people who wanted them for hunting, target shooting, and home defense.

    I own a variety of pistols, rifles and shotguns that I shoot at home on my 100yard range. My neighbor has a 200foot range. The crime rate around here is very low.

    I think more people are killed by cars than guns, do you enjoy walking?

    As I said I think you went off the deep end on this one. You do better on your satire posts. Frank
    No, I am not in over my head, far from it. And "no" assault isn't just a verb, it is a class/style of firearms, but you did correct yourself there a bit by explaining the difference. Like you we use to have a hunting club in school, even assembled and finished my first muzzle loader at school during our after school meetings in the wood shop. This issue isn't car deaths, it's gun control, and the debate over the need for it. And I'm going to use this example again, when there is a rise in the number innocent children and workers beign victims to mass shootings then I think it is extremely irresponsible for the gun community to continue denying the a gun control problem exist. The people who used these weapons were obviously educated as to their use and they had full and easy access to them. Many gun advocates evidently want to allow this condition and trend to continue just to satisfy their own personal wants and desires. I, for one, do not. Do I have an answer to the issue? No, I do not. But I am not so blind to the issue and the need for change that I am willing to continue to sacrifice the lives of innocent children and workers just so I can continue to own whatever firearm I wish.

    PS: And I would guess where you live has more to do with the lower crime then the fact that you own guns.
    Last edited by bigscoop; Nov 07, 2012 at 12:55 PM.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  6. #21
    us
    May 2005
    Northern California
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    I also believe in gun control.......to a point. We don't want nut-jobs to have guns but I don't think there is any way to truly tell who is a nut and who isn't. I don't think felons should have guns either but felons steal things; guns being one of the things they steal. I also think guns that are in homes where children reside should be locked up. I don't need a fully automatic weapon to enjoy shooting but I can understand there is probably some perfectly honest citizens that get a kick out of firing them. They usually have permits to own those weapons. I also agree on the number of rounds needed to hunt deer. Heck, dove and migratory bird hunting laws in CA state your shotgun can only hold three rounds while bird hunting so you have to put a plug in your gun. There ARE gun control laws but not everyone adheres to them. THAT is the problem. I would hate to be left defenseless against looters because I could no longer have a weapon to protect myself. During disasters such as the one we are speaking of, law enforcement is very busy and you are basically on your own. Yes, I agree, it's a problem but the cure has to be something other than taking everyone's guns away or outlawing certain ones because of their "appearance".
    Banking off a Northeast wind, sailin' on a summer breeze

  7. #22
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    Wherever there be treasure!
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
    13,998
    8675 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Gun control is a very tough and sensitive issue. However, somewhere along the line there simply has to be "an effective compromise". If this compromise means surrendering a bit of my gun ownership rights, or ease of access, then at this point, I am all for it. My issue with military style weapons in the sporting field is that for many, they simply attract and invite and promote the wrong values within the sporting field. In Indiana I lived right on a 3000 acre lake that was surrounded by state forest lands, I cannot tell you the number of times I witnessed the spraying of bullets at running deer without any consideration as to what was in the background. DNR Officers were routine customers in my shop and their concern over the issue was getting to the point that they feared even entering the field during deer season. Several of the hunters I knew simply quit coming to the area for fear of getting caught in the reckless crossfire, especially true on the weekends. So clearly there are many issues in several gun control areas that need addressed.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  8. #23
    us
    Tribal Member of United Houma Nation -

    Sep 2011
    Southeast Arkansas
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    I think we can do without the gun control, if we institute the institutionalization of idiots.

    It's people that pull the trigger, therefore, the gun is only a tool.

    I always have at least three lethal blades on my person except when I'm in the Federal Courthouse (you would not want to do what I do for a living) because I personally won't carry a firearm - don't even own one. On the other hand, I've never had to pull a knife on a human. It's usually a smart butt question about whether I know how to use them. My answer is: "I've been doing this for over 20 years, and I'm still here without a cut or bullet hole in me."

    I do believe that anyone who is able to THINK RATIONALLY should be able to decide for themselves if they want one. I may soon as I'm getting up in years and not as fast or accurate as I once was. Prefer the blades though because I can't accidentally pull the trigger or forget to turn off the safety.

    BTW, there are places that are trying to make it illegal for citizens to carry ANY knives in public. It's the same donkeys that are pushing gun control.
    "When under trial, let no one say: 'I am being tried by God.' For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. . . . Do not be misled, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, coming down from the Father of the celestial lights, who does not vary or change like the shifting shadows." --- James 1:13, 16, 17

    A few of my favorite pix: https://www.500px.com/ccjr221

  9. #24
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    Wherever there be treasure!
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
    13,998
    8675 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Chadeaux View Post
    I think we can do without the gun control, if we institute the institutionalization of idiots.

    It's people that pull the trigger, therefore, the gun is only a tool.

    I always have at least three lethal blades on my person except when I'm in the Federal Courthouse (you would not want to do what I do for a living) because I personally won't carry a firearm - don't even own one. On the other hand, I've never had to pull a knife on a human. It's usually a smart butt question about whether I know how to use them. My answer is: "I've been doing this for over 20 years, and I'm still here without a cut or bullet hole in me."

    I do believe that anyone who is able to THINK RATIONALLY should be able to decide for themselves if they want one. I may soon as I'm getting up in years and not as fast or accurate as I once was. Prefer the blades though because I can't accidentally pull the trigger or forget to turn off the safety.

    BTW, there are places that are trying to make it illegal for citizens to carry ANY knives in public. It's the same donkeys that are pushing gun control.
    So far, anyone with a different opinion is dumb, stupid, an idiot, a donkey, etc. I'm betting you're not in public relations.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  10. #25
    us
    Tribal Member of United Houma Nation -

    Sep 2011
    Southeast Arkansas
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    Actually, that's a big part of my job. Don't forget, this is for opinions . . . it isn't business.
    "When under trial, let no one say: 'I am being tried by God.' For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. . . . Do not be misled, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, coming down from the Father of the celestial lights, who does not vary or change like the shifting shadows." --- James 1:13, 16, 17

    A few of my favorite pix: https://www.500px.com/ccjr221

  11. #26
    us
    Nov 2010
    North Carolina
    BH LoneStar AT PRO
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    Bigscoop I applaud your patience. You must have tons of it good posts!!

  12. #27
    us
    May 2005
    Northern California
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    Yeah Scoop, again I agree; it's a tough and sensitive issue but, in the context of this thread I think that even you will admit that "households" should be able to protect themselves and others from those that would enter a home to "loot". Let me clarify....if I'm in the house when they enter I have no idea of what they might do and I'll protect myself or others with deadly force. That's the risk a looter would take at my house.
    Now, if I were approaching my house and saw some fool carrying out my tv, no, I would not use deadly force against this person but he may wish I had.
    truckinbutch, Frankn and onfire like this.
    Banking off a Northeast wind, sailin' on a summer breeze

  13. #28
    us
    Feb 2008
    Morgantown,WV
    Bounty Hunter Landstar
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    Scoop ,
    I agree that you are in over your head on this one . The issue is parenting and taking responsibility for one's own actions . What you are espousing here is that we must give in to those who did not have those benefits .
    >
    By your criteria ; my 3 daughters and one son (parents of my 6 grandchildren) who were responsibly reared and are professionals in the working world as well as parents should be denied their choice of firearms . Just because of the failures
    of others .
    >
    Instead I propose that everyone should be required to go armed . You will see fewer dysfunctional individuals opening up on crowds if they think someone is going to shoot back .
    >
    In closing ; I'll say that my 3 girls and son , 2 sons in law , and a daughter in law are licensed CCW . My wife and I as well .
    We all responsibly carry every day to protect ourselves and those around us . It's only an assault weapon if you are committing an assault with it . In that light ; even a fist is a rapid fire assault weapon ........ Ya wanna sponsor a nation of armless people just in case?...........................................
    Chadeaux and Frankn like this.
    Wolfpack forever

  14. #29
    us
    manaloneblog.wordpress.com

    Jun 2010
    Wherever there be treasure!
    An older blue Excal with connector, remote, Skullie headphones, and various coils. Got rid of the rest of my machines.
    13,998
    8675 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    First, to the issue of looting, or stealing and vandalizing, not the same as an aggressive attack on one's physical person. So, for the context of this thread, "no"...I don't believe shooting looters should be made into an open season. The opening post in this thread was about "looting" and not about out right physical threats and/or attacks during home invasion. Entering an occupied residence or business with an armed show of force is subject for an entirely different thread. Just let us pray that all 50 of the customers inside the McDonald's are not packing and all making their move at the same time. I do not want to be in that crossfire.

    Butch, the problem with your logic is that as a society we can't even get kids to quit using drugs despite all efforts to educate them. And like it or not, our society has also become one with two working parents, if in fact both parents still reside in the same home. The very values and principles you want to utilize are fading so fast from our society it is staggering. I would be greatly interested in hearing what laws you would create that would make good values and principles a requirement, though? Not sure how you would do this without violating an endless list of rights? And here rest the flaw in your logic; "Not everyone wants to be educated to Butche's way of thinking and living." I fully understand what you are saying, but the practicality of your proposal just isn't real world anymore. And "no"..the old "arm everyone" is a drum that has been beaten into the ground. Nearly everyone already owns, or has access to at least one gun and you can see how that is working out just dandy.
    FarmerChick likes this.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  15. #30
    us
    Tribal Member of United Houma Nation -

    Sep 2011
    Southeast Arkansas
    Ace 250
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    Cache Hunting
    Works out really well here in Arkansas.

    The only places we have ever had mass shootings is where firearms are prohibited: School and the workplace.

    No one holds up the gun club, no one bothers with the local pawnshops either. Everyone there IS packing, and usually there are deputies visiting (they get first pick at the nicer pieces) . . . sometimes even working when the owners need a day off or its hunting season.

    Living in the north must be really different. Glad I've never been there.

    Just a happy misplaced coonass living in Arkansas. God I love the south!

    . . . 'cept for these buggers:


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    Last edited by Chadeaux; Nov 07, 2012 at 09:52 PM.
    "When under trial, let no one say: 'I am being tried by God.' For with evil things God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone. . . . Do not be misled, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, coming down from the Father of the celestial lights, who does not vary or change like the shifting shadows." --- James 1:13, 16, 17

    A few of my favorite pix: https://www.500px.com/ccjr221

 

 
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