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  1. #31
    vor
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    In defense of Ford, they have never taken one penny from a government bailout. Now Government Motors (GM) is another story.

    Not to worry on the Ho Hos, Bimbo is poised to take over - and move the jobs to Mexico.
    Next Twinkie Maker: Will A Mexican Billionaire Family Buy Hostess' Orphaned Brands? - Forbes

    American greed - by both the unions and management. That's the problem when we don't have a free enterprise system.

    No comment on the union biased article, too political.
    Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not: Jeremiah 5:21

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by vor View Post

    American greed - by both the unions and management. That's the problem when we don't have a free enterprise system.
    NO...they lost their livelihoods...that's the free enterprise system at work....get too greedy, and you lose your customers...no customers.
    no money...LOL People do a good job of sorting the bad companies from the good ones.
    Jim

  3. #33

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    Hostess Brands Inc. and its second largest union will go into mediation
    to try and resolve their differences, meaning the company won't go out of business just yet.
    The news came Monday after Hostess moved to liquidate and sell off its assets
    in bankruptcy court citing a crippling strike last week.
    The bankruptcy judge hearing the case said Monday that the parties haven't
    gone through the critical step of mediation and asked the lawyer for the Bakery,
    Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union,
    which has been on strike since Nov. 9, to ask his client,
    who wasn't present, if the union would agree to participate.
    The judge noted that the bakery union, which represents about 30 percent of Hostess workers,
    went on strike after rejecting the company's latest contract offer, even though it never filed an objection to it.

    Judge asks Hostess to mediate with union - Yahoo! Finance

  4. #34
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    Does this mean I'm stuck with the 462 boxes of Twinkies I haven't sold yet?
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  5. #35
    vor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim in Idaho View Post
    NO...they lost their livelihoods...that's the free enterprise system at work....get too greedy, and you lose your customers...no customers.
    no money...LOL People do a good job of sorting the bad companies from the good ones.
    Jim
    Not quite. In a free enterprise system a job would earn what management is willing to pay. If workers don't want to work for that, they can quit (or not apply). If there are no takers, the management would have to offer more for the same job.

    Eventually an equilibrium will be met based on supply and demand for the position.

    In its day, unions were required to keep employers from taking advantage of workers. In today's society, lawyers take care of that problem.
    truckinbutch likes this.
    Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not: Jeremiah 5:21

  6. #36
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    Here's a fact I spotted on the news. There are 12 unions at Hostes, and only one settled, it was the teamsters union. Frank

    Click image for larger version. 

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  7. #37
    vor
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    Why does Mexico get all the good bread?

    First it was Mrs. Bairds bread and now it is Wonder bread. Carlos Slim is now poised to buy up the Wonder brand as Hostess now goes into liquidation.
    http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/...th-union-fail/

    So now, 18,000 people go on the government unemployment, welfare and/or food stamp programs.

    And are probably replace with 1,800 jobs in Mexico. Way to hold firm there union leaders. Are you really doing a service to your members and our country?
    Last edited by vor; Nov 21, 2012 at 10:15 AM.
    Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not: Jeremiah 5:21

  8. #38
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    You know, in the past, on more then one occasion I've seen Union reps doing everything possible to convince employees to accept some losses and take deals, and yet the employees still voted against it. Union reps can only influence membership, they do not determine the outcome of membership voting. So to say that all union representation is bad isn't accurate. Clearly, at some point, it was the membership that said, "no"......not the Union Officials.
    Treasure_Hunter likes this.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  9. #39
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    Nah, VOR....the customer is what determines the pay of everyone in the company. The free enterprise system should pit the company against the customer. In the case of Hostess, the battle became the union against the company...both of them forgot that the only way the company survives is to sell a product the customers want, at a price that's competitive with what others are selling the same product for. Basically they ran out of money because they were charging too much for what they were trying to sell. In the end it doesn't matter what management wants to pay. The free enterprise system determined that the pay, for both management and labor, was more then the market was willing to pay. Thus both management and labor are out of a job.
    Of course the GOV will probably step in, making a mockery of the system, and bail out the union employees, and that will just waste a bunch of taxpayer dollars.
    Jim
    Last edited by Jim in Idaho; Nov 21, 2012 at 11:52 AM.

  10. #40
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    Bigscoop, you are dreaming. I worked union for a couple of years. The vote is set long before the vote takes place. I was in the IBEW-- which no longer exists because it wouldn't vote the way National wanted. National came in dissolved the local and set up a new local. The word was the contractors gave National a good "REASON" to. Frank
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  11. #41
    vor
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigscoop View Post
    You know, in the past, on more then one occasion I've seen Union reps doing everything possible to convince employees to accept some losses and take deals, and yet the employees still voted against it. Union reps can only influence membership, they do not determine the outcome of membership voting. So to say that all union representation is bad isn't accurate. Clearly, at some point, it was the membership that said, "no"......not the Union Officials.
    I never stated that union representation was bad.

    However, in this case it was only the union representatives that sat in on the mediation yesterday, not the members. They never got a vote. Union leaders rejected the deal on their own.
    Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not: Jeremiah 5:21

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave44 View Post
    I see that you have a nice article that looks as if you typed it, scanned it and now offer it up as facts. Looks nice, I don't, however see the point?
    Rising fuel, rising ingredients, rising labor costs. It matters not what your perceived evil is, the fact that they would not take an 8% cut in pay to stay employed tells us something else.
    Is that a Saul Alinsky Article?
    Uh right. I have SOOO much time on my hands I can do as you were suggesting. NOPE! I am not retired or unemplyed, and don't make politics my religion, so I would never go those lengths to mislead people because I don't have the time, and I'm not that stupid...
    Treasure_Hunter likes this.

  13. #43
    us
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    Quote Originally Posted by vor View Post
    However, in this case it was only the union representatives that sat in on the mediation yesterday, not the members. They never got a vote. Union leaders rejected the deal on their own.
    Wasn't implying that. Just saying that long before there was a mediation, membership said "no" to what had been negotiated and put on the table. i.e., Union leaders did not reject the deal/deals that caused things to arrive at mediation......the membership did.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frankn View Post
    Bigscoop, you are dreaming. I worked union for a couple of years. The vote is set long before the vote takes place. I was in the IBEW-- which no longer exists because it wouldn't vote the way National wanted. National came in dissolved the local and set up a new local. The word was the contractors gave National a good "REASON" to. Frank
    Sat through many Union votes, Frank, counted votes, membership determines if deals are excepted or not. Union reps negotiate with company reps and if they come to agreeable terms those terms are taken to the membership for a vote. Sure, union reps often mislead, try to influence, etc., but membership vote determines if the proposed agreement is accepted or not once it is taken to a vote.
    "Treasure is wherever it can be found."

  15. #45
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    I was in IBEW for 16 years, union members voted on the proposals worked out between the union and the company and offered to members. Union did not refuse to negotiate with the company, they brought company proposals to the membership and we accepted or rejected the offers…
    bigscoop likes this.
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